Drawings and parts for classes 81 to 84 and 86 to 89

[60800]

Morning all, I'm currently planning on a long term project of producing a member of each of the AL1 to class 89 fleet(s), specifically those preserved by the NRM and ACLG, including the 86's that have recently been sold. I'm wondering if anyone has a set of side and nose on drawings of any of these classes. Of course, Bachmann's 85 will be used for 85006 and there is the golden arrow kit of 89001 so that is these sorted. I plan to use the cabs from Hornby 86's and Bachmann warship chassis as a base, suitably modified of course for the 81-84, and possibly the 86's. I'm unsure what to do with motor situation on the 87's so I would be very grateful for any advice on this and pantographs.

 

Cheers,

60800

[darrel]

There was or is a company that made resin bodies for the class 81, 82,83 and 84 Not sure if they are still in existence as I can't find their website I'm pretty certain the company was Apple green models. They also used to sell them on eBay. They are very good mouldings if you can find them. Silver Fox make the class 89.

[Clive Mortimore]

Starters get hold of the Russell Carter drawing book on electric locomotives, and the Marsden and Fenn book. Look at the Barrowmore MRG website at the electric locomotive diagrams.

 

Other sources of drawings include a series of drawings in the Model Railway Constructor in the early 1980s, and Brain Haresnape's AC electric Locomotives book in the series of BR Fleet Survey, it contains the BR diagrams.

 

Ian Beattie done some drawings for Railway Modeller, they look impressive but I do not feel they are as good as the Carter drawings.

 

Despite looking similar all the AL series of locomotives have a different cab shape.

 

Look forward to seeing an AL3 and AL2.

[darrel]

Here are 3 of the resin bodies

[Baby Deltic]

There was or is a company that made resin bodies for the class 81, 82,83 and 84 Not sure if they are still in existence as I can't find their website I'm pretty certain the company was Apple green models. They also used to sell them on eBay. They are very good mouldings if you can find them. Silver Fox make the class 89.

L&J models did resin bodies for the early AC electrics although if they were anything like their class 15 and 16 bodyshell, steer well clear. I believe DC Kits do resin kits for some of the AC types, plus, if you can get hold of a Triang class 81, the body is a good starting point, although the bogies are class 82, so maybe you could use the bits for both types. A much rarer beast is the Lilliput class 81 which I believe is slightly under scale but still a very good model for its time, right down to the spring detail in the wheels and all wheel drive. I managed to get hold of one many years back but haven't seen anymore since.

 

Edit: There's a Lilliput 81 on EBay for £149.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Baby Deltic

[Gordon H]

There have been a number of articles written in the past about different ways to produce models of the AC electrics in 4mm, which if you can find copies might give you some starting points and ideas. The series I am most familiar with was published in 'Practical Model Railways' back in early 1986 and created by 'GWC1' of this forum. There seem to be a few copies available on EBay with a quick search.

[kevinlms]

 

Ian Beattie done some drawings for Railway Modeller, they look impressive but I do not feel they are as good as the Carter drawings.

 

FWIW, the Ian Beattie drawings included

 

Class 82 RM 1994 April

Class 83 RM 1996 January

Class 84 RM 1998 June

[Michael Edge]

I did the drawings and patterns for the AL1 and AL5 produced by DC kits. The drawings were done by measuring locos at Barrow Hill. I still have some parts of the etches used to make these patterns.

[60800]

Thanks for the replies everyone,

I'd been looking at trying to get hold of a trix or lilliput 81 body but have had no luck so far. Does anyone know if the resin bodies are still available or if the DC kits 81 is still available from any outlets as, although a search brings it up on their website, it is not available to purchase

 

Cheers,

60800

[Horsetan]

You'd need to ask Charlie Petty directly. Kit production was suspended across the board a while ago whilst he reorganised his business premises, but I don't know if he has already restarted.

[60800]

Thanks for the heads up, I'll fire off a message.

 

Cheers, 60800

[Jim Martin]

Modern Locomotives Illustrated no.191(Oct-Nov 2011) covers the early AC electrics and includes drawings of classes 81 to 85, plus the testbed class 80 (converted from the Western Region's Brown-Boveri gas turbine). The drawings are by Graham Fenn and are, I think, the same as in the Marsden/Fenn book; although I gather from the notes appended to the drawings that the book contains other detail views which aren't in the magazine.

 

Jim

[jetmorgan]

FWIW, the Ian Beattie drawings included

 

Class 82 RM 1994 April

Class 83 RM 1996 January

Class 84 RM 1998 June

Also find Model Railway Constructor April & May 1981 for drawings of classes 81 to 84. I have copies of these and can email you PDF scans if you PM me

[Clive Mortimore]

Modern Locomotives Illustrated no.191(Oct-Nov 2011) covers the early AC electrics and includes drawings of classes 81 to 85, plus the testbed class 80 (converted from the Western Region's Brown-Boveri gas turbine). The drawings are by Graham Fenn and are, I think, the same as in the Marsden/Fenn book; although I gather from the notes appended to the drawings that the book contains other detail views which aren't in the magazine.

 

Jim

Hi Jim

 

Forgot that one.

[47164]

Hi , the current edition of railway modeller has drawings in 4mm of the class 81, plus the peco catenary guide.

[Baby Deltic]

Modern Locomotives Illustrated no.191(Oct-Nov 2011) covers the early AC electrics and includes drawings of classes 81 to 85, plus the testbed class 80 (converted from the Western Region's Brown-Boveri gas turbine). The drawings are by Graham Fenn and are, I think, the same as in the Marsden/Fenn book; although I gather from the notes appended to the drawings that the book contains other detail views which aren't in the magazine.

Jim

The class 80 was converted from the Metropolitan Vickers gas turbine 18100.

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi , the current edition of railway modeller has drawings in 4mm of the class 81, plus the peco catenary guide.

Hi 47164

 

It is a Ian Beattie drawing, and they are known for not being a reliable as other draftsmen's work.

[Michael Edge]

Screenshot of my CAD drawing for AL1, this was drawn from measurements at Barrow Hill  and the BR weight diagram.

The NRM have a GA of the AL5, it's in the ex OPC list on microfiche - hard to find since it is simply listed as "Bo-Bo electric locomotive".

[ClikC]

Most of the responses so far have covered all the bases.

 

I particularly like 'Model Railway Constructor Planbook 3 - BR Electric Locomotives in 4mm scale' by R.S. Carter, although I wish some of the detail drawings which are not 1:76.2/ 4mm scale, told you what scale they in fact are (1:32 if your wondering, but not all of them...)

 

Depending how 'finescale' you want these models, you will find the GEC (AEI) Crossed-arm Pantograph (As fitted to 82 008 and 83 012) to be particularly irksome to model. I've had the pleasure of standing on top of the 83 a few years ago (courtesy of the AC locomotive group), with tape measure in hand, but I require a second visit to obtain some key dimensions I am missing.

 

I've recently pursued Serco RailData who hold the RSSB's British Rail Board's Drawings, and after a lengthy e-mail correspondence on the subject of the GEC pan, concluded that they have a manual for one, but due to it being 3rd party intellectual property, they are not allowed to give out copies to members of the public. Things seem to be heading the same way with the Stone-Faiveley type AMBR pan, so at this stage I'm not even going to enquire about the Brecknell Willis highspeed and low speed pans.

 

If find the lack of real hard data, not so much the lack of RTR models, or various OLE pieces to be the main stumbling block for modelling AC locomotives.

 

Regards

 

Matt

[andyman7]

 A much rarer beast is the Lilliput class 81 which I believe is slightly under scale but still a very good model for its time, right down to the spring detail in the wheels and all wheel drive. I managed to get hold of one many years back but haven't seen anymore since.

 

Edit: There's a Lilliput 81 on EBay for £149.

The Trix/Liliput AL1 is properly to 4mm scale - it was originally tooled for a company called Miniature Construction by Liliput of Austria, so was not subject to Trix's odd 3.8mm scale. For my money it is the finest British Outline model railway loco produced in the 1960s - with a decent paint job it can sit alongside modern RTR and there aren't many 60s models you can say that for.

Edited April 25, 2016 by andyman7

[Horsetan]

Judith Edge produces some pantograph kits.

 

The Trix/Liliput AL1 is properly to 4mm scale - it was originally tooled for a company called Miniature Construction by Liliput of Austria, so was not subject to Trix's odd 3.8mm scale. For my money it is the finest British Outline model railway loco produced in the 1960s - with a decent paint job it can sit alongside modern RTR and there aren't many 60s models you can say that for.

Cue scramble for Liliput AL1s on eBay....

Edited April 25, 2016 by Horsetan

[ClikC]

Judith Edge produces some pantograph kits.

 

 

Cue scramble for Liliput AL1s on eBay....

 

I'm hoping to take a look at the etches at scaleforum, as I believe the image on UKMS directory is the 7mm version.

 

Also, one currently available for the low-low price of £169.50

 

Regards

 

Matt

[60800]

Thanks for even more excellent information everyone, especially the drawing. I've purchased the Model Railway Constructor plan book 3 and the Marsden and Fenn book, picked up for good prices too. Depending on information and parts available, If class 86 and 87 bogies can't be suitably hacked about, I will be looking at 3D printing the bogies, although my cad skills aren't presently the best. If I go this route, I'll look at the legal side of things to running a batch off strictly to order for anyone interested. I'll use class 86 cabs throughout, changing the nose rake, window spacing and cab side curvature where necessary, having read that the 83 is the easiest to do this way. I have no idea what I'll do with the pantographs so far, but I definitely won't be sticking with those from the donor 86's in the long run

 

Cheers,

60800

[Michael Edge]

We have had the 4mm cross arm pantograph kit for some time now at £9. It's currently the only AC one we do but I am working on the Stone-Faiveley single arm. All the others are DC diamond frame pans. We do have them all in 7mm scale as well now but the website pictures are 4mm.

[Clive Mortimore]

Thanks for even more excellent information everyone, especially the drawing. I've purchased the Model Railway Constructor plan book 3 and the Marsden and Fenn book, picked up for good prices too. Depending on information and parts available, If class 86 and 87 bogies can't be suitably hacked about, I will be looking at 3D printing the bogies, although my cad skills aren't presently the best. If I go this route, I'll look at the legal side of things to running a batch off strictly to order for anyone interested. I'll use class 86 cabs throughout, changing the nose rake, window spacing and cab side curvature where necessary, having read that the 83 is the easiest to do this way. I have no idea what I'll do with the pantographs so far, but I definitely won't be sticking with those from the donor 86's in the long run

 

Cheers,

60800

Hi

 

Having scratchbuilt the basic body shells of classes 82, 83 , 84 and 85 before abandoning the idea of AC locos I think it would be easier to make the cabs from plastic card than trying to shape them using the 86 as a starter. They all differ in angle of slope, the cab windows slope at a differing angle to the lower front (which is upright on an 86). The windscreens from memory are differing sizes from class to class. The roof domes are again different from that of the class 86.

 

Good luck with your project.