Bachmann DBSO driving brake second open

[Keith J]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

I've got a Hurst conversion kit somewhere. That was whitemetal so you may well have used the same.

I never saw a Hornby 8 window TSO, which were the more common. Hornby re-used their 7 window FO model. Anglia had some declassified FOs which had been rebuilt with high density seating, but they only had 2 of these in each rake, with 3 or 4 of the more common 8 window TSOs.
Hornby's was also the older Dapol Mk2D tooling. Most (possibly all?) of Anglia's Mk2s were 2Fs.

I think it is highly likely that Bachmann will release these in the not too distant future.

Could well have been Hurst, I think I've a spare one knocking about somewhere I'll see if I can find it to check.

 

Thanks for the info about the windows, I'd never noticed that before. I've just dug out my Hornby coaches and it's so obvious now!

[stonojnr]

20 hours ago, adb968008 said:

47714, and 86/2 already done.

 

Bachmann never did any 86s did they in 00 ? the 47 Id accept, even if its not like by the Anglia stage in real life 47s were hauling IC trains anymore, but I already had the Heljan version so never bothered with it.

 

I guess Im just thinking, £150 is a lot for basically a single coach, a very nice single coach dont get me wrong, but unless theres a whole stack of stuff coming that lets you put a decent set together thats consistent with how that train was run in real life, it feels like a big gamble just to assume.  If theyd recently announced a 90 Greater Anglia/NXEA or a 47 Stratford, I might be more inclined to feel they think Eastern region stuff is something they are looking to provide for more.

 

 

[Keith J]

13 hours ago, stonojnr said:

 

Bachmann never did any 86s did they in 00 ?

 

No but Hornby produced 4 different versions in Anglia livery. Heljan also produced 47714 many years before Bachmann and I think they also released an 86 in Anglia livery as part of the original run.

[shunny]

Found out today Network rail version now sold out at Bachmann as my local shop tried to increase order and has been advised all taken, thankfully he has enough to cover pre orders on the way 

 

[Iron Horse]

I just found out I'm too late for the Network Rail one.......that'll teach me for contracting covid and staying away from the outside world 

[Alan Oliver]

A certain Sheffield shop is still showing them for pre-order.

[Iron Horse]

Thanks for the tip, but it looks like they may have all gone

 

[Rob Coote]

You may want to try a model shop with De and Rails in its name 

[Ncarter2]

2 hours ago, Rob Coote said:

You may want to try a model shop with De and Rails in its name 

Thank you, was not sure if I wanted one or not, but having missed out on other popular models I have decided to bag one. 

[Iron Horse]

Thanks for all the help gents, lets see if I get one!!!!!

[sanspareil]

Can see order of popularity being NR>IC>AR. As we are accustomed to, if you are in to model railways there's some hefty 95% 'inflationary' increases with the new batch, up from £76.95 to £149.95 RRP in what 3 years?!? 

Concerning where we will be in the next 3, looks like its going to be survival of the richest in this hobby!

 

- From what I see you can add remove the front plough on applicable models and install a coupling if you wish? 

 

- On DC I am guessing all lights are on internally and the directional lights of course working as appropriate? Disabling lights would require some wiring surgery or covering of them I guess.

[adb968008]

54 minutes ago, sanspareil said:

Can see order of popularity being NR>IC>AR. As we are accustomed to, if you are in to model railways there's some hefty 95% 'inflationary' increases with the new batch, up from £76.95 to £149.95 RRP in what 3 years?!? 

Concerning where we will be in the next 3, looks like its going to be survival of the richest in this hobby!

If prices double in 3 years i’m going to sell up, buy a caribbean island, set up a bar on a beach and serve drinks to passing sharks.

Edited February 7, 2022 by adb968008

[GordonC]

1 hour ago, sanspareil said:

Can see order of popularity being NR>IC>AR. As we are accustomed to, if you are in to model railways there's some hefty 95% 'inflationary' increases with the new batch, up from £76.95 to £149.95 RRP in what 3 years?!? 

Concerning where we will be in the next 3, looks like its going to be survival of the richest in this hobby!

 

- From what I see you can add remove the front plough on applicable models and install a coupling if you wish? 

 

- On DC I am guessing all lights are on internally and the directional lights of course working as appropriate? Disabling lights would require some wiring surgery or covering of them I guess.

 

That £149.95 RRP is pretty astonishing. It makes you wonder how much additional cost there is in producing a DBSO compared to a Mk2F BSO if the RRP of those is closer to £100. The lighting functions inside are the same and I'd expect the interior is the same moulding/tooling so does it really cost £50 for the cab fittings/interior and head and tail lights on one end instead of the flashing/static rear tail light LED hole?

[sanspareil]

1 minute ago, GordonC said:

 

That £149.95 RRP is pretty astonishing. It makes you wonder how much additional cost there is in producing a DBSO compared to a Mk2F BSO if the RRP of those is closer to £100. The lighting functions inside are the same and I'd expect the interior is the same moulding/tooling so does it really cost £50 for the cab fittings/interior and head and tail lights on one end instead of the flashing/static rear tail light LED hole?

 

And Hornby's similar recent offering, the HST DVT, came in at £50 cheaper.

[G-BOAF]

6 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

That £149.95 RRP is pretty astonishing. It makes you wonder how much additional cost there is in producing a DBSO compared to a Mk2F BSO if the RRP of those is closer to £100. The lighting functions inside are the same and I'd expect the interior is the same moulding/tooling so does it really cost £50 for the cab fittings/interior and head and tail lights on one end instead of the flashing/static rear tail light LED hole?

And for just £10 more, you can get an Accurascale Deltic - with lights at BOTH ends and inside, drive mechanism, motor, and complicated DCC-ready electronics.

 

I was pondering an Intercity DBSO, but its not 'must have' enough for that price.

At £100 it might have been...

[norfolkchinaclay]

I think the questions are

 

1. Do you need one for your layout?

2. Do you want one for your layout?

3. Are you prepared to pay a premium to get one (assuming you do not have the skills, time or inclination to scratch build one for yourself) ?

 

If the answer to the above is “all 3”, as in my case, then I think that is sufficient to justify the RRP even if it does not explain what it may actually cost to produce them.

 

The fact that they have/are selling out (at least in the case of the NR version) is surely evidence enough.

 

I do sympathise with anyone who wanted but cannot afford one of these, they have been a long time coming or so it seems. We are all now being faced with hard decisions as to what to pay for and what is not “essential” for us.
I have sacrificed purchasing a number of non-essential items so that I can get the stuff that is really the most important to me.

[Pete the Elaner]

On 04/02/2022 at 20:01, stonojnr said:

 

Bachmann never did any 86s did they in 00 ? the 47 Id accept, even if its not like by the Anglia stage in real life 47s were hauling IC trains anymore, but I already had the Heljan version so never bothered with it.

 

I guess Im just thinking, £150 is a lot for basically a single coach, a very nice single coach dont get me wrong, but unless theres a whole stack of stuff coming that lets you put a decent set together thats consistent with how that train was run in real life, it feels like a big gamble just to assume.  If theyd recently announced a 90 Greater Anglia/NXEA or a 47 Stratford, I might be more inclined to feel they think Eastern region stuff is something they are looking to provide for more.

 

 

Post-1960 main line GE is very hard to model. It was electrified early & most of the passenger traffic has since been EMUs, none of which have been produced RTR.

[sanspareil]

2 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

And for just £10 more, you can get an Accurascale Deltic - with lights at BOTH ends and inside, drive mechanism, motor, and complicated DCC-ready electronics.

 

I was pondering an Intercity DBSO, but its not 'must have' enough for that price.

At £100 it might have been...

Indeed, We know in the modern world Accurascale represents the best value /quality in the business now. I was going to get an NR DBSO along with the IC one but having seen the price will leave the NR one and run my test trains top and tail as I can get a loco on ebay for less/same or use existing locos. With me this is way its going, get one of something rather than several as in the old days.

 

One thing we dont know these days is production numbers. Sure stuff is selling out often on pre-order, its often difficult to judge demand, i also hear its not uncommon even for large retailers to get less than 10 of an item now though. We know the Hornby situation. Some production runs i hear now are way less than what was deemed limited edition in the past (when it just comes with a bit of paper just to say so), pricing does have a suppression effect thus lower production runs/further increased cost. Data is often not in the public domain but one of the largest retailers told me they were only supplied with 30x new Class 20 locos last spring so sold out on pre-order (they would have liked 50 or so). Even 50 is not a huge number for one of the nations biggest.

Edited February 7, 2022 by sanspareil

[newbryford]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

If prices double in 3 years i’m going to sell up, buy a caribbean island, set up a bar on a beach and serve drinks to passing sharks.

 

You could pay a barman to serve the sharks with the amount of stuff you have..........

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, newbryford said:

 

You could pay a barman to serve the sharks with the amount of stuff you have..........

i’m a man of Simple pleasures.

Drinks will be on me.

Especially if someone buys my NR DBSO at £300, i’ll even give a taste of my whisky collection.

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by adb968008

[sanspareil]

 

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

i’m a man of Simple pleasures.

Drinks will be on me.

Especially if someone buys my NR DBSO at £300, i’ll even give a taste of my whisky collection.

 

 

Well lets see what the future brings, 2025 and £300 Bachmann DBSO's.........never say never!

 

Just browsing the Accurascale pages and notice you can get 5x TPE MK5 top spec coaches including a MK5 'DBSO/DVT' for £225! That in the modern world has to surely be the greatest 'bargain' in an era of insane prices?

 

How do they do it when others cant?

[andyman7]

6 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

And for just £10 more, you can get an Accurascale Deltic - with lights at BOTH ends and inside, drive mechanism, motor, and complicated DCC-ready electronics.

 

I was pondering an Intercity DBSO, but its not 'must have' enough for that price.

At £100 it might have been...

We need to remember that the prices for the Accurascale Deltics are as announced back in 2018. Now it's great that they have managed to hold to that price structure but their business model is slightly different - I have paid a deposit for my Accurascale Deltic, so there is a) money being paid upfront and b) some sort of contract being formed. This is not the same as Bachmann, Hornby etc.

 

It will be interesting to see what price the next Accurascale brand new project has to come in at when being costed at 2022 values.  

[St. Simon]

13 minutes ago, sanspareil said:

How do they do it when others cant?

Hi,

 

We don’t know if they work on a much smaller margin, are willing to absorb far more cost than others, have a better deal with the factory, have a different financial agreement with their backer or some other reason. I will point out this is just conjecture rather than based on any knowledge of either company 
 

There’s also the fact that Accurascale simply have far lower overheads because they have less employees.

 

Just because some companies can produce stuff for lower prices doesn’t mean that the more expensive companies are ‘worse’. 
 

With the DBSO, the adverts state all new tooling, therefore I would assume they’ve had to tool the coach from scratch, rather than just a new livery or minor tool alteration, at the ‘current’ (or whatever ‘current’ was at the time) prices for such projects, hence the price increase. 
 

Simon

[adb968008]

Its probably worth dissecting that point…

The big three have the largest share of the market, and all three have, independently, raised prices substantially in a short time.

 

However, they have unique overheads behind that..

 

Hornby has a legacy of losses it needs to cover.

Bachmann has a constraint on supplier (Kader).

Heljan appears to have dual shipping (Denmark, then to UK, plus UK distributors).

 

All the rest of the suppliers seem to coalesce around a similar price point… Accurascale, Dapol, KR, Pi, Revolution, cavalex, hattons.. even Oxford Rail (Which is owned by Big H).

 

I cant imagine the factory cost being significantly different for any manufacturer, indeed the larger three should be able to entice volume discounts, and weight of economy of scale if anything.

 

The one to watch imo is Dapols class 59… Lets see if they can hold its £154 RRP (£136 discount) price tag* 

 

* (Ive left a note in my will to my heirs to check the price upon its eventual release in the future, just incase its gestation outlives the  life expectancy of a normal healthy middle aged man).

Edited February 7, 2022 by adb968008

[G-BOAF]

11 hours ago, St. Simon said:

Hi,

 

We don’t know if they work on a much smaller margin, are willing to absorb far more cost than others, have a better deal with the factory, have a different financial agreement with their backer or some other reason. I will point out this is just conjecture rather than based on any knowledge of either company 
 

There’s also the fact that Accurascale simply have far lower overheads because they have less employees.

 

Just because some companies can produce stuff for lower prices doesn’t mean that the more expensive companies are ‘worse’. 
 

With the DBSO, the adverts state all new tooling, therefore I would assume they’ve had to tool the coach from scratch, rather than just a new livery or minor tool alteration, at the ‘current’ (or whatever ‘current’ was at the time) prices for such projects, hence the price increase. 
 

Simon

 

New body tool maybe to allow for new ends and CDL lights on the side.

But same interior, chassis, bogies and electrics as previous DBSO so not a completely new tool at all