Silver Sidelines Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I have the impression from watching sellers on eBay that you buy a replacement locomotive. Take the good bits and then sell the rest as 'spare parts', where the cost recovered for say half the spare parts more than covers the cost of the purchase of the complete locomotive. Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I have the impression from watching sellers on eBay that you buy a replacement locomotive. Take the good bits and then sell the rest as 'spare parts', where the cost recovered for say half the spare parts more than covers the cost of the purchase of the complete locomotive. Ray When I get around to it, that's what I'll do probably as some will get a new chassis (especially the q1 which would look wrong with p4 wheels). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I hate to be the duty pedant, but is that Silver Fox, not Flying Fox? Perhaps he’s bats! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Well, my Britannia Saga (missing cab deflector) has made a major step towards conclusion. Today I successfully removed two deflectors from a donor model, ready for insert into my recipient model (a rarity with late deflectors and running plate conduit). For anyone crazy enough to contemplate something similar at some stage, here's the process: Very nail-biting process, as I didn't want to break the fine parts (cup of tea needed half way through). Ended up using a long needle rammed up against the back of the lugs inside the cab, running out through the rearward cab window on the opposite side. Holding end of needle on the outside of the cab (to steady it, and guard against hitting the model), gently gently needle into the rear of the plastic plastic with Leatherman Surge pliers (weighty, but well balanced), until resistance of glue overcome. Checked position of deflector every 2-3 taps to ensure remaining lug not being over-stressed. Started with top lug in both cases. The result: two complete, unbroken components, and even better only two of four lugs with any major residue of glue. This said, some fine angles of needle to circumvent the reverser detail in the cab on the left hand deflector. Note also that rear of lugs is invisible on left hand side, possibly due to slight wear on tooling pins. Needed to carefully gauge location of lugs; after a few taps daylight becomes visible through the deflector if you are in the right place! Now at some point to repeat to remove the 'stubs' of the deflectors on the receipient model. Hopefully they won't be glued too well. No margin for error in terms of damage to cab plastic or finish Hornby's argument that these parts cannot be salvaged from a scrap model (part of their rationale for not supplying me spares) is now, in my opinion, totally voided. They can be salvaged, with care! And I'm not even a professional... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 @GBOAF There is a world of difference twixt you the hobbyist spending forever carefully taking stuff to bits and an employee rendering spares from scrap models in a business situation where they are employed to make money for the company one way or another. Give me a contract to take models apart for spares and a worthwhile recovery rate and I will do it, but economics says it won't work for Hornby or any other manufacturer. The answer is to schedule adequate spares provisioning at model build initiation. In my mind this would involve taking on board second tier spares retailers like Peters Spares and New Railway Modellers as the outlet to derisk the costs involved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamperman36 Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 with the current situation reguarding the ability of spares it would be a possible idea to set up a reclamation project where old, broken or damaged stock could be sent/purchased for a small amount and then broken up to reclaim valuable spare parts. The scrap could then be recycled in the correct way. I sometimes wonder how many railway models are just thrown away as kids grow out of playing trains or elderly relatives pass away. Maybe model shops could get together to create some sort of recycling project. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Melrose Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 If only Hornby would sell the bogies from their Stanier corridor stock and non-corridor stock as spares! If anyone in authority reads this, please do whatever it takes to make them available so we can replace the bogies on the Bachmann porthole stock with something that works! Stan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireline Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 ....For anyone crazy enough to contemplate something similar at some stage, here's the process:.... ....Hornby's argument that these parts cannot be salvaged from a scrap model (part of their rationale for not supplying me spares) is now, in my opinion, totally voided. They can be salvaged, with care! And I'm not even a professional... In other words, it's a horrible job to do, that takes a lot of time, and is not going to be economically viable (time versus cost of part), but Hornby should be doing this all the time....? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 The argument from Hornby was that they are 'not recoverable', which was as justification for not supplying me a spare/scrap body (and they must have some scrap returns). I had offered to recover the parts myself if they supplied a scrap bodyshell (or even a sawn off cab). I wasn't necessarily saying to Hornby that they should recover the parts for me. Either way, I wanted to share my experiences on this task from an engineering perspective. What irks me is that Hornby have gained another model sale as a result of poor packaging/QC. On the other hand, assuming it doesn't drive customers away, what better business model than: 'buy loco at X price, but Y% of the time you'll actually have to buy 2 from us to get one good one!' The moral of the story is that Hornby should have a limited number of spares available. How much can it cost to get a few sprues of detail parts (even unpainted) for each model sent over with each batch? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adams442T Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 The argument from Hornby was that they are 'not recoverable', which was as justification for not supplying me a spare/scrap body (and they must have some scrap returns). I had offered to recover the parts myself if they supplied a scrap bodyshell (or even a sawn off cab). I wasn't necessarily saying to Hornby that they should recover the parts for me. The moral of the story is that Hornby should have a limited number of spares available. How much can it cost to get a few sprues of detail parts (even unpainted) for each model sent over with each batch? The logistics of employing people just to provide customers with 'spare parts' are totally uneconomic. It would, I'm sure, be nice to have spare parts available, but you are talking about every model in all the ranges and the economics just don't add up! This is the reason that Hornby have abandoned spares, and even companies like 'Peter's Spares' have few available. Dave of DJM is about the only person whose locos are regularly supplied with a quantity of spare parts, but he is a much smaller concern, and, I think, has decided that providing spares is worthwhile adjunct to his business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 But they used to keep spares so it must have been profitable at some stage. What has changed ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 This argument that Spares are not necessary due to cost of employing people and inventory control etc is not the point as individuals will need parts from the current range at times due to warranty issues. I have had an issue with a loco that was current in the catalogue at the time, the policy was bad luck, buy another one loco. I felt that this was poor customer service and as it was not a failure but a customer asking for assistance (happy to pay etc) was over looked at the good will it could have created. If a car manufacturer behaved the same way with a broken head light there would have been hell to pay. What some manufacturers have been known to do is sell off their spare parts to 3rd parties which is good for us as we can access the spares we need and the role of the manufacturer is just that! In the bigger picture how ever the retailers do end up with the issue of returned items that are warranty repairs which the manufacturer's need to be able to do or otherwise just send out a new one! The problems become resolving the limited edition and the end of line warranty repairs. Anyhow I would encourage Hornby et al to use retailers who are willing to do the job that they don't want too and support them with the wholesaling of the spares as we all at times need them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgar Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Mine usually break at the crosshead/connecting rod end! Peters spares were offering valvegear sets for Rebuilt West Country/BOB earlier this year so I bought a couple on the off chance they would fit MN. Was able to fit them but had to separate the metal side pieces from the rear motion bracket and superglue them back having slid the whole assembly forward about 2mm to get the combination levers in the right place. (will need to remove the oval pips atop the motion bracket to allow this) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adams442T Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 This argument that Spares are not necessary due to cost of employing people and inventory control etc is not the point as individuals will need parts from the current range at times due to warranty issues. I have had an issue with a loco that was current in the catalogue at the time, the policy was bad luck, buy another one loco. I felt that this was poor customer service and as it was not a failure but a customer asking for assistance (happy to pay etc) was over looked at the good will it could have created. If a car manufacturer behaved the same way with a broken head light there would have been hell to pay. What some manufacturers have been known to do is sell off their spare parts to 3rd parties which is good for us as we can access the spares we need and the role of the manufacturer is just that! In the bigger picture how ever the retailers do end up with the issue of returned items that are warranty repairs which the manufacturer's need to be able to do or otherwise just send out a new one! If you examine my post at #61 above you will see that I didn't say that spares aren't 'necessary', what l said was that they were uneconomic to provide, especially over a whole range of items. Amongst Hornby's financial problems l cannot see that the provision of spare parts would come high on their agenda. The car manufacturer comparison is entirely false because, a) car parts are needed in stock for repairs during the time they are in use, b) some car parts are becoming increasingly hard to find, even for relatively recent models, and c) many vehicles are repaired under warranty. Hornby spare parts or the lack of them, is something that concerns me, as well as everyone else. If people sent things back when they failed under warranty, which some people seem strangely reluctant to do, Hornby are obliged to repair them, or refund the costs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cctransuk Posted May 12, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 12, 2017 But they used to keep spares so it must have been profitable at some stage. What has changed ? Why must it have been profitable? More likely, they stopped keeping spares because it was loss-making. The most obvious analysis is usually the correct one. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daltonparva Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Does anyone know where I can find an X9122 Princess speedo cable? A few people listing it at £1.81 but all out of stock. Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Peter (adams442t) I misinterpreted your inference. I did not intend to cause offence. The point I was trying to make was Hornby who have a long history of providing spare parts which we all agree is good. The problem and I think you would agree is these are a lose leader to the business. However as I suggested this could be solved by selling these off after a period to 3rd party retailers who can then stock store and end up profiting out of the situation. With the manufacturer passing on the items which they too may make a profit out of. However the one item I totally disagree from is the position I have struck of Hornby not bringing willing to support their product in certain situations. I will say that my issue with Hornby stems directly from a lack of responses, a unwillingness to support their product and subsequently being unable to access "normal" spares for a current item. Hence my support for more spares to be made available from 3rd parties who are willing to provide information and the items if they are available to them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted May 12, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 12, 2017 Why must it have been profitable? More likely, they stopped keeping spares because it was loss-making. The most obvious analysis is usually the correct one. Regards, John Isherwood. I think what changed is a loco now comprises several hundred parts, not the few tens of years gone by. Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adams442T Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Peter (adams442t) I misinterpreted your inference. I did not intend to cause offence. The point I was trying to make was Hornby who have a long history of providing spare parts which we all agree is good. The problem and I think you would agree is these are a lose leader to the business. However as I suggested this could be solved by selling these off after a period to 3rd party retailers who can then stock store and end up profiting out of the situation. With the manufacturer passing on the items which they too may make a profit out of. However the one item I totally disagree from is the position I have struck of Hornby not bringing willing to support their product in certain situations. I will say that my issue with Hornby stems directly from a lack of responses, a unwillingness to support their product and subsequently being unable to access "normal" spares for a current item. Hence my support for more spares to be made available from 3rd parties who are willing to provide information and the items if they are available to them! I quite agree that it is indefensible for Hornby to make, it appears, no provision for even genuine warranty claims. I wouldn't be happy either if l received a response which was, buy another one or forget it! In this day and age, not responding to customer complaints swiftly is completely wrong. When l worked for the Britains Collectors Club we always responded immediately to complaints, and even if we couldn't solve the problem, just the fact of a sympathetic hearing and then trying to do what one could went a long way! I was really just trying to see the economic case for spares, which presently doesn't seem viable. 'Loss leaders', so beloved of our supermarkets, are just that though. I suspect Hornby is still in a parlous state financially, and l suspect that the ideal of plentiful spares for many lines is still far away, or even adequate spares it seems for warranties to be fulfilled. I still cannot see why though, and here is where l agree with you, that Hornby couldn't just collect all the rejects they are sent, and pass them on to Peter's Spares, or someone similar. Leaving them to strip and supply items. As you say an ounce of goodwill goes a long way, and wouldn't it be nice to have an item which reported,'Hornby Spares - outstanding service', rather than the sorry state of affairs we have now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Hello DP I am just catching up on questions and answers Does anyone know where I can find an X9122 Princess speedo cable? A few people listing it at £1.81 but all out of stock. Thank you. I bought a replacement speedo cable for my Princess which soon broke (again). You might be interested in my repair method which is mentioned at the end of this Blog Post. Regards Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 But they used to keep spares so it must have been profitable at some stage. What has changed ? Further to what has already been said in reply, it will be recalled that not that many years ago there were three significant operations offering extensive ranges of RTR spares - 'East Kent' was the one I used regularly - and they have all gone now. That suggests to me that the demand case that once made this a viable business has gone, I would propose due to the advent of superior models and extensive choice in OO RTR. Most of my purchases were for the parts that could be used to build models that could not be got RTR, the once common modelling activity of 'kitbashing' that I suspect has been near crushed out of existence because we can now buy RTR a class 15 or 23, an L1, BWT or 1361; just to name a few examples of dire or obscure classes that were never expected to get a RTR model, ...I still cannot see why though, ... that Hornby couldn't just collect all the rejects they are sent, and pass them on to Peter's Spares, or someone similar. Leaving them to strip and supply items. As you say an ounce of goodwill goes a long way, and wouldn't it be nice to have an item which reported, 'Hornby Spares - outstanding service', rather than the sorry state of affairs we have now! Sounds workable, but someone has to do it, and it costs. No way out of it, there's a handling cost Hornby have to carry to collect the returned items to be sent as spares supply, but perhaps that will be no more than disposing of these things in the waste bin so that's small impact. Shipping to spares outfit - unavoidable cost Systematic receipt and organised storage of the items so that they may be quickly retrieved - unavoidable cost Call handling process to identlfy customer requirement, retrieve spares, breaking model / dismantling as required, mail out - unavoidable cost Joe Eejit cannot read spares sheet, requested wrong part, wants full refund; whining all over the web about your business - inevitable consequence. I have enough knowhow to do it for RTR OO, and frankly wouldn't touch it with a bargepole for any money. I have bought and sold a lot of RTR parts for my own use - a fair amount of it with members here, all of which went well, thanks guys - and have learned three things along the way. The acceptable price to the majority of potential customers doesn't reflect the labour content alone for the whole store/pick/break/mail operation. When it goes wrong - my misjudgement of the competence of the person I was dealing with - it goes very wrong. in two ways: There can be no guarantee with such spares, buyer's risk, though I will try and help, but forget it years after purchase; No, I am not liable for your buying something you didn't actually want, and there is no automatic refund. Suck it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 .... Sounds workable, but someone has to do it, and it costs. No way out of it, there's a handling cost Hornby have to carry to collect the returned items to be sent as spares supply, but perhaps that will be no more than disposing of these things in the waste bin so that's small impact..... We need to find out where Hornby's waste bins are and start salvaging stuff..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted May 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 17, 2017 But they used to keep spares so it must have been profitable at some stage. What has changed ?The models have become more bespoke. The days of having only a 4 wheel and a 6 wheel ringfield motor that could be used in 3/4 of both the steam and diesel range have gone. As well only 2 types of buffer, none sprung loaded, and a standard set of loco wheel sizes etc etc... The chassis that powered Thomas, powered the Jinty, 08, J52, James etc etc, the motor used in Thomas could also be found in the class 58 and 142 !! If they had stayed, the railroad range might be more affordable today, less desirable to collectors, but kids wouldn't care. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted May 18, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 18, 2017 But they used to keep spares so it must have been profitable at some stage. What has changed ? Production being outsourced basically. I recall seeing somewhere a reference to the days when everything was produced in house at Margate, where if additional models were required (and the same presumably goes for parts) it was easy to add a few more bits to the production run. In the recent decade and a half that simply cannot happen, the manufacturer has to agree a production slot way in advance with the factory and specify exactly what it wants. If it wants 1000 models then that is what it gets. If the manufacturer wants spare parts too then these must similarly be pre ordered in advance and in bulk. The situation is not helped by modern accounting methods which does not like stuff hanging around on shelves, as it represents 'wasted capital' (i.e. money that could be more effectively use elsewhere or money that could otherwise be used to pay off debts / invest in other areas of the business). Rather than have vast quantities of spare parts - the manufacturer makes a grater return on selling complete items (hence why modern manufacturers generally make things hard to fix in the hope that people will by a brand new replacement instead) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted May 18, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 18, 2017 The models have become more bespoke. The days of having only a 4 wheel and a 6 wheel ringfield motor that could be used in 3/4 of both the steam and diesel range have gone. As well only 2 types of buffer, none sprung loaded, and a standard set of loco wheel sizes etc etc... The chassis that powered Thomas, powered the Jinty, 08, J52, James etc etc, the motor used in Thomas could also be found in the class 58 and 142 !! If they had stayed, the railroad range might be more affordable today, less desirable to collectors, but kids wouldn't care. I don't think Hornby had a choice over replacing the ringfield power bogies/tender drives. IIRC the old ones wouldn't pass tighter electrical interference regulations that were brought in. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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