RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted August 18, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 18, 2016 Another reason not to dispense of the guards. If this train had a guard then he could have held the panel up http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37117172 Another reason not to dispense of the guards. If this train had a guard then he could have held the panel up http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37117172 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan452 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Another reason not to dispense of the guards. If this train had a guard then he could have held the panel up http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37117172 Another reason not to dispense of the guards. If this train had a guard then he could have held the panel up http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37117172 Southern rail: Shocked commuters injured as ceiling of rush hour train carriage crashes to floor - http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/southern-rail-commuters-hurt-as-ceiling-of-rush-hour-train-carriage-crashes-to-floor-a3323611.html Ms Burkes said there were no station staff available at South Croydon, so they were not able to report what had happened until the train reached East Croydon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Another reason not to dispense of the guards. If this train had a guard then he could have held the panel up http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37117172 Southern rail: Shocked commuters injured as ceiling of rush hour train carriage crashes to floor - http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/southern-rail-commuters-hurt-as-ceiling-of-rush-hour-train-carriage-crashes-to-floor-a3323611.html If only they hadn't bought shoddily-built British trains... Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiles Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Southern are rather lucky no-one was injured otherwise they'd have had a regiment of ambulance chasing lawyers knocking on the door.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bescotbeast Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Southern are rather lucky no-one was injured otherwise they'd have had a regiment of ambulance chasing lawyers knocking on the door.... Don't be too sure, the lady named in the news report suffered "whiplash" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiles Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Don't be too sure, the lady named in the news report suffered "whiplash" Now why doesn't that surprise me? How on earth do you get whiplash from a falling ceiling panel?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bescotbeast Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Now why doesn't that surprise me? How on earth do you get whiplash from a falling ceiling panel?? Katie Burkes, 28, said she suffered bruising and whiplash , whiplash being the Ambulance chasing buzzword of choice . Looks like some poor fitter at Stewarts Lane will be getting a grilling soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted August 18, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 18, 2016 Just found this site Our train home was on time only twice in the last year. http://www.mytrainjourney.co.uk/results/LBG/RDH/Dep/1730/2015-08-18/2016-08-18/Weekday/15%2c60 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 In this case all that was needed to return the radio to service was to reset a MCB that had tripped and cut the power to it, but that is obviously an easy thing for a distressed driver to overlook. One of the solutions touted by the RAIB is fitting the radio with some sort of internal back up battery to avoid the MCB issue, though this potentially introduces other issues in other areas. It takes the GSM-R head unit at least 3 minutes to reboot so that is 3 minutes that no message can be sent and that would seem like a very long time in an emergency situation. I wonder what the Courts would make of a driver simply waiting in the cab for the GSM-R head unit to boot up instead of heading off down the line to protect the train?. Our 153s are fitted with a GSM-R remote power supply but they are all taped out of use and we have been told not to use them under any circumstances, and we run single 153s in service so no other unit to rely on. Did you know the a 153 has 2 head units (one in each cab) but only has one actual GSM-R unit so if the unit fails then both head units also fail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Claude_Dreyfus Posted August 18, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 18, 2016 Just found this site Our train home was on time only twice in the last year. http://www.mytrainjourney.co.uk/results/LBG/RDH/Dep/1730/2015-08-18/2016-08-18/Weekday/15%2c60 Wow. I have just checked my homeward service. In the last year it arrived on time 3 times...an impressive 1% right-time percentage. http://www.mytrainjourney.co.uk/results/LBG/PUL/Dep/1748/2015-08-18/2016-08-18/Weekday/15%2c60 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Just found this site Our train home was on time only twice in the last year. http://www.mytrainjourney.co.uk/results/LBG/RDH/Dep/1730/2015-08-18/2016-08-18/Weekday/15%2c60 Does it compare to the public timetable or the working timetable? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted August 18, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 18, 2016 It takes the GSM-R head unit at least 3 minutes to reboot so that is 3 minutes that no message can be sent and that would seem like a very long time in an emergency situation. I wonder what the Courts would make of a driver simply waiting in the cab for the GSM-R head unit to boot up instead of heading off down the line to protect the train?. Our 153s are fitted with a GSM-R remote power supply but they are all taped out of use and we have been told not to use them under any circumstances, and we run single 153s in service so no other unit to rely on. Did you know the a 153 has 2 head units (one in each cab) but only has one actual GSM-R unit so if the unit fails then both head units also fail. The point is not so much that the GSMR radio only required switching back on - its the point that the radio itself was intact and in perfect working order once it had power. As the RAIB themselves suggest, fitting the radio with some sort of internal back up battery would solve that particular issue and is a lot cheaper than paying a guards wages for years on end. Thus using the failure of the GSMR as a reason to retain the guard is nonsense - technical solutions to that particular issue are available - like I said earlier if we can make block boxes design to survive aircraft impacts coming up with a GSMR unit with an internal batteries shouldn't be that difficult. As for the situation you outline on the 153s - I see nothing there that could not be fixed if management wished to do so - which might be a reflection that the TOC currently uses guards on those units so they feel there is no pressing need for the duplicated kit / backup power supplies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted August 18, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 18, 2016 Does it compare to the public timetable or the working timetable? The ones I have looked at are to the public timetable and whilst we don't use our normal train home every single work day, the results do reflect our own findings. Whats more worrying is the next service has not been on time at all in the last year and its reliabiltiy is quite a bit lower than our train. A minute is neither here or there but when it is often around 10 minutes late most days that does make it tight for our bus connection and many others miss the GWR Reading service unless its late especially with the Southern service reduction where the Reigate and Tonbridge portions have been removed it is certainly more important for those going to Reigate (those gonig to Tonbridge or miss the GWR train have to wait around 25 - 30 minutes for the next service). Today the train was about 6 - 7 minutes late but luckily for those wanting the GWR service, was also late so a number of them managed to get through the subway to make the GWR service. Our train in the morning is also often late into LBG despite adding 5 minutes to it when the LBG works started in earnest although some days it can be late off Redhill (normally delayed by the earlier Vic service) yet can arrive early into LBG once in a while. However it is often cancelled, either by running fast avoiding Redhill or terminated at Three Bridges. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted August 18, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 18, 2016 Wow. I have just checked my homeward service. In the last year it arrived on time 3 times...an impressive 1% right-time percentage. http://www.mytrainjourney.co.uk/results/LBG/PUL/Dep/1748/2015-08-18/2016-08-18/Weekday/15%2c60 Ah, that one. They had to change the evening duty which runs that train from Horsham down to Bognor as nine times out of ten it was late to the point that we would miss our pass train back out of Bognor to Barnham where we were supposed to have a break before going to Southampton and back which at one time was almost permanent job for the late cover man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted August 19, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 19, 2016 There is no data available for my train of choice when visiting home shores. 21.47 Victoria - Hastings / Littlehampton should split at at Haywards Heath. On every occasion I tried to use it (with train-specific tickets) in May and June there was no sign of a Littlehampton portion. Not on the departures boards, not on the train itself which was sometimes just a 4-car unit running solo, and not in the "knowledge" of any station or on-board staff. Yet it remains in the timetable and it is still possible to purchase tickets specifically for it; see screenshot. I experienced stiff opposition to having my train-specific tickets accepted on any alternative services thanks to the way Gatwick Express staff at Victoria continue to refuse anything but their own tickets (notwithstanding the requirement under the National Conditions to accept passengers by the next most expeditious means if their own train does not run, which I considered to be the 22.00 Brighton fast, a GatEx service these days) and the barrier staff on the "Southern" side at platforms 15 - 19 refusing to let me through when the gate rejected my "timed out" ticket on the grounds that my train had already departed. This train also forms the last London and coastal service of the day to Littlehampton with a Brighton connection made at Hove. The parallel 700 bus does not run west of Goring in the evening meaning anyone for Littlehampton has to pay for a taxi and join the queue for reimbursements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan452 Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 20mph TSR in both directions through the Balcombe Tunnel Appears to be down to Defective track I'm getting increasingly convinced there is considerably more than meets the eye to this than just a simple 'track defect'. As the restriction is still in effect today - http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/ldbboard/dep/VIC Speed restrictions imposed between Haywards Heath and Three Bridges are causing delays of up to 15 minutes There seem to have been quite a few issues with the structural integrity of the Balcombe Tunnel over the years. Hoping that I'm not reading too much in-to this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 The ones I have looked at are to the public timetable and whilst we don't use our normal train home every single work day, the results do reflect our own findings. Whats more worrying is the next service has not been on time at all in the last year and its reliabiltiy is quite a bit lower than our train. A minute is neither here or there but when it is often around 10 minutes late most days that does make it tight for our bus connection and many others miss the GWR Reading service unless its late especially with the Southern service reduction where the Reigate and Tonbridge portions have been removed it is certainly more important for those going to Reigate (those gonig to Tonbridge or miss the GWR train have to wait around 25 - 30 minutes for the next service). Today the train was about 6 - 7 minutes late but luckily for those wanting the GWR service, was also late so a number of them managed to get through the subway to make the GWR service. Our train in the morning is also often late into LBG despite adding 5 minutes to it when the LBG works started in earnest although some days it can be late off Redhill (normally delayed by the earlier Vic service) yet can arrive early into LBG once in a while. However it is often cancelled, either by running fast avoiding Redhill or terminated at Three Bridges. So every train which has a difference between Public and Working timetables (which is a lot) will by default be 'late' even when its actually on time according to the Working Timetable, which effectively means that is just another website set up to make the railways look bad because it is just as easy to make it using the Working Timetable! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted August 19, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 19, 2016 20mph TSR in both directions through the Balcombe Tunnel I'm getting increasingly convinced there is considerably more than meets the eye to this than just a simple 'track defect'. As the restriction is still in effect today - http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/ldbboard/dep/VIC There seem to have been quite a few issues with the structural integrity of the Balcombe Tunnel over the years. Hoping that I'm not reading too much in-to this. The problems in Balcombe tunnel are due to the Ultrasonics guys picking up multiple flaws in the rails on both the up & down lines. Since it occurred the P-way department have spent every night this week cutting out and replacing the defective sections of rail. Due to the location of most of the defects (inside a tunnel) and sheer number of them it is taking quite a few nights to replace them all and in the meantime 20MPH speed restrictions were applied throughout the tunnel. More sections of rail are being renewed tonight so I know what we will be doing come 04:30 tomorrow morning (testing track circuits). However, its not been a good week for emergency speed restrictions on the BML generally - last Sunday we had arc damage to the running rails following some rubbish shorting out between the con rail and running rail at Three Bridges in platform 4, while ultrasonics have also identified rail issues within Haywards Heath tunnel. At one stage there were 3 sets of 20MPH ESRs in place delaying al up trains by a significant amount. As far as I am aware there are no structural issues with the tunnel itself - just the rails. Balcombe is however a wet tunnel so that may have been a factor of the deterioration of the rails - not helped by the fact that on a daily trains basis, it exceeds even the WCML for usage. That combined with ever longer operating hours, the extra time needed in 3rd rail land to isolate the con rail in possessions compared to OHLE and a lack of staff resources means the route is basically fighting fires at the moment rather than preventing them from starting in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Claude_Dreyfus Posted August 19, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 19, 2016 So every train which has a difference between Public and Working timetables (which is a lot) will by default be 'late' even when its actually on time according to the Working Timetable, which effectively means that is just another website set up to make the railways look bad because it is just as easy to make it using the Working Timetable! Okay, but by definition, passengers are working to the public timetable, so that is their only guide. To take my homeward train as an example, the public timetable says it should get me to Pulborough at 18:59 - if the train arrives after that time, it is late. It must be said that in 2015 the number of times our train arrived on time could be counted on the fingers of one hand. So, unless the WTT runs on average 10 minutes behind the public timetable, I suspect this website is broadly accurate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Surely customers/passengers/travellers (whatever) are not interested in the working timetable. They probably don't even know such a thing exists. If the public arrival time is (say) 13.25 and the working arrival time is 13.27, then unless the train arrives at 13.25 then in the eyes of the customer it is late. Any other time is irrelevant to them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 In my experience, where there was a difference between Working (WTT) and public arrival times, the WTT time was always earlier than the public time, never later. In any case, such differences applied only to longer distance services, for the majority of trains there was no difference in the times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 20, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2016 In my experience, where there was a difference between Working (WTT) and public arrival times, the WTT time was always earlier than the public time, never later. In any case, such differences applied only to longer distance services, for the majority of trains there was no difference in the times. On our branch we have one morning train where the WTT departure time from the terminus is 2 minutes later than the public time (fora train with a 12 minute journey time). WTT times later than than the public time used to be commonplace for Up Class 1 trains departing Reading. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 In my experience, where there was a difference between Working (WTT) and public arrival times, the WTT time was always earlier than the public time, never later. In any case, such differences applied only to longer distance services, for the majority of trains there was no difference in the times. Surely you mean the other way round? Passengers arriving to catch the train at (say) 15.55 as advertised in the public book would be very miffed if it was timed earlier in the WTT to depart at (say) 15.53. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted August 20, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2016 If a Ai SM told that my train arrives at X and that I can make a connection with X plus connection time to only find out that the WTT is later and the connection cant be maintained then what's the point of an advertised passenger timetable? Interestingly today our trains to and from London today are deserted compared to a few months ago. Maybe passengers just aren't using them anymore Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Interestingly today our trains to and from London today are deserted compared to a few months ago. Maybe passengers just aren't using them anymore Certainly fairly busy from my point of view today but perhaps the awful weather put paid to some days out? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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