More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[jamie92208]

From a book I had beside me, Castleford Colliery Railways by Ron Rockett, Glasshoughton, always one word to locals, was sunk in 1869 by Wilks and Co  as Merefield Colliery. And was railway connected from the outset Later owned by W Wood and later part of Pontefract Collieries who also owned Prince of Wales at Pontefract. It lasted till 1986.  The photo shows the colliery. There was a huge coke and chemical works next door.  Alone now and is the site of Xscape and a big retail park. It was connected to the L and Y and NER.  The Midland and GNR also had access. 

 

Jamie

[Compound2632]

13 minutes ago, WFPettigrew said:

Rapido PO Wagon

 

Yes, I'm being a little slow tonight! That's a good representation of the wagon in the phpto in Turton. The oddity is that Rapido have given it both Midland an L&Y registration plates, which i think is an improbable redundancy. The photo shows an oval owner's plate between the legs of the vee-hanger, a standard RCH registration plate to the left of that - but not legible - and a large round plate to the left of that. I can find no Midland registrations for Glass Houghton Colliery, so no doubt their wagons were registered with the L&Y. Perhaps @rapidoandy could be invited to comment?

 

3 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

From a book I had beside me, Castleford Colliery Railways by Ron Rockett, Glasshoughton, always one word to locals, was sunk in 1869 by Wilks and Co  as Merefield Colliery. And was railway connected from the outset Later owned by W Wood and later part of Pontefract Collieries who also owned Prince of Wales at Pontefract. It lasted till 1986.  The photo shows the colliery. There was a huge coke and chemical works next door.  Alone now and is the site of Xscape and a big retail park. It was connected to the L and Y and NER.  The Midland and GNR also had access. 

 

Looking at the OS 25" maps on the NLS website, it seems the colliery wasn't connected to the North Eastern Cutsyke Branch until after 1905.

[jamie92208]

8 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Yes, I'm being a little slow tonight! That's a good representation of the wagon in the phpto in Turton. The oddity is that Rapido have given it both Midland an L&Y registration plates, which i think is an improbable redundancy. The photo shows an oval owner's plate between the legs of the vee-hanger, a standard RCH registration plate to the left of that - but not legible - and a large round plate to the left of that. I can find no Midland registrations for Glass Houghton Colliery, so no doubt their wagons were registered with the L&Y. Perhaps @rapidoandy could be invited to comment?

 

 

Looking at the OS 25" maps on the NLS website, it seems the colliery wasn't connected to the North Eastern Cutsyke Branch until after 1905.

That's probably correct.  Ron Rockett doesn't mention when it got the connection.my main memories of Glasshoughton are that it had the largest  and most impressive headgear of lattice steelwork and the all pervading smell of the coking plant next door. I now shop there when I'm staying with my daughter. 

 

Jamie

Edited December 5, 2023 by jamie92208

[rapidoandy]

15 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Yes, I'm being a little slow tonight! That's a good representation of the wagon in the phpto in Turton. The oddity is that Rapido have given it both Midland an L&Y registration plates, which i think is an improbable redundancy. The photo shows an oval owner's plate between the legs of the vee-hanger, a standard RCH registration plate to the left of that - but not legible - and a large round plate to the left of that. I can find no Midland registrations for Glass Houghton Colliery, so no doubt their wagons were registered with the L&Y. Perhaps @rapidoandy could be invited to comment?

 

 

Looking at the OS 25" maps on the NLS website, it seems the colliery wasn't connected to the North Eastern Cutsyke Branch until after 1905.

Quite simply our initial render had an error - the production ones will only have the L&Y plate.

 

Andy

[MrWolf]

8 minutes ago, rapidoandy said:

Quite simply our initial render had an error - the production ones will only have the L&Y plate.

 

Andy

 

It happens, even when you're working on something that isn't lost to history, ask any engineer.

The man who never made a mistake, never made anything.

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, rapidoandy said:

Quite simply our initial render had an error - the production ones will only have the L&Y plate.

 

I was wondering if you'd access to a better print of the photo than is reproduced in Turton and could say what the left-most plate was but a bit of googling has, I think, turned up the answer.

 

I think it's a Hurst Nelson owner's plate, i.e. the wagon is on hire or hire purchase from them (the L&Y PO register should give the owner's number as well as the L&Y registration number and the Glass Houghton fleet number):

 

 

The oval plate amidships is their builder's plate of this "early" pattern; by 1927, they were including the year underneath the word "builders", pushing the latter upwards:

 

 

- exactly as Rapido have it.

 

[Embedded links]

Edited December 5, 2023 by Compound2632

[RapidoLinny]

That's the conclusion we came to - looking at the artwork we've sent off to the factory, we've definitely added a Hurst Nelson owner's plate:



Hope this helps!

Linny

Edited December 5, 2023 by RapidoLinny

[Compound2632]

10 minutes ago, RapidoLinny said:

That's the conclusion we came to - looking at the artwork we've sent off to the factory, we've definitely added a Hurst Nelson owner's plate

 

Excellent! 

 

I was having a conversation about the fine printing on RTR wagons these days and we agreed that the snag is that if you want to change the wagon's fleet number, you've now got to work out how to change the numbers on the registration and owner's plates to suit!

 

I'm up against this on the EFE LSWR covered goods wagon - wanting to change the number from 11111 - which is not only on the door but on the printed numberplate. I think I will have to resort to printing my own numberplates for this. I need to print off some more Midland plates anyway.

[billbedford]

18 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

I was having a conversation about the fine printing on RTR wagons these days and we agreed that the snag is that if you want to change the wagon's fleet number, you've now got to work out how to change the numbers on the registration and owner's plates to suit!

 

Oh, good grief. As if we will all get photos of our wagons blown up in the centre fold of MRJ. 

[rapidoandy]

39 minutes ago, billbedford said:

 

Oh, good grief. As if we will all get photos of our wagons blown up in the centre fold of MRJ. 

Don’t be daft. I’m quite content with photos in Model Rail…

[billbedford]

T'was Stephen's leg I was pulling...

[Compound2632]

9 hours ago, billbedford said:

Oh, good grief. As if we will all get photos of our wagons blown up in the centre fold of MRJ. 

 

It's something to aspire to! (Though with my 00 wheels, not much chance.)

[corneliuslundie]

But you can get much bettereexposure here.

J

[Dave Hunt]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

It's something to aspire to! (Though with my 00 wheels, not much chance.)

 

Er, your wagons have appeared in MRJ Stephen.

 

Dave

[Compound2632]

Just now, Dave Hunt said:

Er, your wagons have appeared in MRJ Stephen.

 

Yes indeed, thanks to you inviting me to write for the Midland Railway Society 40th Anniversary issue you edited. But not as a centre-fold spread with all the really cruel enlargement that Bill is envisioning!

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

But you can get much better exposure here.

 

Not so sure about that. The lighting levels for my wagon photography can be problematic especially in the winter months, as discussed some pages back!

 

Anyway, the best strategy is to aim for a variety of outlets, as Thames Water might say.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Compound2632

[Worsdell forever]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Yes indeed, thanks to you inviting me to write for the Midland Railway Society 40th Anniversary issue you edited. But not as a centre-fold spread with all the really cruel enlargement that Bill is envisioning!

 

Just think, a staple right through your Morton clutch... 😲

[WFPettigrew]

2 hours ago, Worsdell forever said:

Morton clutch

 

Or avoid the pain, and model the Furness. No Morton clutches.  So a staple through thin air.  Much less eye watering!

[jamie92208]

Just n update on Glasshoughton.   This picture appeared in a book that I was reading the other day. Colliery Railways of Castleford by Ron Rockett.  I think that it's credited to Pontefract Museaums.

It would be mice to find out who built the Rawdon Coop wagon as it was next door to Guisley where the Coop was one of Beadman's customers.   Taken during the rebuild of the colliery in the late 20's by which time I thin that it was part of the Pontefract Collieries group which included Prince of Wales.   I happen to have a coffee jar of specially washed coal from Ponte Prince, as it was known.  One of the officials gave it to me for my locos so they mainly have Ponte Prince coal in their tenders.  I've enough for many years of loco building.

 

Jamie

Edited December 6, 2023 by jamie92208

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

It would be mice to find out who built the Rawdon wagon

 

MR Reg. Nos. 20392 and 20785 (date TBC), Rawdon Co-op Nos. 1 and 2, Midland RC&W Co., 10-ton wagons with internal dimensions 15' 6" x 7' 0" x 3' 2" , side doors 3' 2" high; No. 2 had steel frames. 

 

MR Reg. Nos. 43175, 49795, 52253, and 60261, Rawdon Co-op Nos. 3, 4, 5, and 6, also Midland 10-ton wagons but no other details yet.

 

[jamie92208]

Thanks for that Stephen.  What is interesting to me is the size of the coal in the wagons in the foreground. Looks to be about 2".  I suspect that most coal was of smaller pieces as the larger stuff would be reserved  for the Railways and alsfor furnace coke.  I have a vague memory that our household coal was between 1 and 2".

 

Actually looking at the photo again, I suspect the wagons are under the screens as the size of coal increases with each row of wagons,which would make sense.  The screens would have been fed from where the photographer was positioned. 

 

Jamie

Edited December 6, 2023 by jamie92208

[MrWolf]

4 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

Just n update on Glasshoughton.   This picture appeared in a book that I was reading the other day. Colliery Railways of Castleford by Ron Rockett.  I think that it's credited to Pontefract Museaums.

It would be mice to find out who built the Rawdon Coop wagon as it was next door to Guisley where the Coop was one of Beadman's customers.   Taken during the rebuild of the colliery in the late 20's by which time I thin that it was part of the Pontefract Collieries group which included Prince of Wales.   I happen to have a coffee jar of specially washed coal from Ponte Prince, as it was known.  One of the officials gave it to me for my locos so they mainly have Ponte Prince coal in their tenders.  I've enough for many years of loco building.

 

Jamie

 

It's not just me then! I have a lump of coal found on the trackbed of the old Wennington - Lancaster branch which is destined to be crushed down for the tender of my 4F and another two chunks found at Craven Arms before they built the new houses that has provided enough crushed coal for every GW loco I could ever want.

 

Rob 

[jamie92208]

38 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

 

It's not just me then! I have a lump of coal found on the trackbed of the old Wennington - Lancaster branch which is destined to be crushed down for the tender of my 4F and another two chunks found at Craven Arms before they built the new houses that has provided enough crushed coal for every GW loco I could ever want.

 

Rob 

I also needed, it's of dirt for ground cover in the shed yard.  A friend who volunteered at Howarth brought me a big tub of smoke ox char from the only surviving 4F.  It certainly looks the part. 

 

Jamie

[Chris F]

On 06/12/2023 at 12:21, jamie92208 said:

 

 I happen to have a coffee jar of specially washed coal from Ponte Prince, as it was known.  

 

 

 

Although I'm an avid follower of D299's adventures on the regular, like, it's been giving me the shivers the last few days.  We have followed in my granddad's footsteps as he started his career as a collieryman at Pope and Pearson, living across t'street in t'buildings on Pope Street, before moving on to Ponty-Prince and then finally Kellingley.  I have vague and flickery memories of Pope Street in the late Seventies and early Eighties.

 

Anyroad.  Just interjecting my thanks to all contributors.

[corneliuslundie]

And I have a jar of coal from Ocean Taff Merthyr Colliery for my GWR/RR layout wagons.

J