RMweb Gold 30801 Posted November 22, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2016 The guy should be locked up for suggesting it's fine to answer emails or text's whilst driving. Laws in the US vary. In some states you're allowed to text & drive as long as you're not driving a bus. In others you're not even allowed to use a satnav. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Laws in the US vary.True. In some states you're allowed to text & drive as long as you're not driving a bus. In others you're not even allowed to use a satnav. Where? The anti-text and drive campaign is pretty big. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 An interesting demonstration, which I guess will soon take place, may even already have taken place, would be to set a large number of these carbots loose in a mock town, perhaps created on a vehicle test track, leave them too it for a couple of years, periodically texting destinations to them, then to gradually infiltrate human-driven cars, and see what proportion of humans is needed to screw things up. My personal take is similar to one above: freight vehicles are the obvious first candidates for open-road use. Those that spend a very high proportion of time on motorways might be ideal, because the conditions are the least unpredictable of all driving conditions, and driver boredom/inattentiveness is currently a significant difficulty. Another target might be long distance coaches, but I imagine that there would be huge resistance to that. K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire2865 Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 The percentage of automation varies depending on the system. Its often broken down into a rating of 0-4 where 0 is normal cars and 4 is no driver needed. Most research and developments now is on levels 2 and 3, where 2 is the driver has hands on wheel at all times and 3 where the driver may be distracted but there incase of issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted November 22, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2016 I think it will come, and sooner than we might think. Autonomy is a very happening area in engineering, the navy are putting a lot of money into autonomous under water vehicles for tasks like mine counter measures, air forces are pumping money into autonomous aircraft (and I do mean autonomous, not remotely operated like existing drones) and there is interest in autonomous ships. I think all the major car companies are working on self driving cars, in technical terms I see no real reason for it not to work. Clearly there are difficulties and getting the software etc approved will be challenging but it will be done. Such cars offer the potential to significantly increase road capacity, efficiency and will probably reduce road deaths. I suspect that for the car as transport (as opposed to the car as an expensive indulgence) we'll see a movement away from car ownership to be replaced by cars on demand. I think the technology will profoundly change society, in combination with a shift to zero emissions energy conversion (at the car) I think it will completely alter many existing transport assumptions. I do think there will always be a demand for cars which are driven by humans as it is still hugely enjoyable to drive a nice car on an open road and cars can be hugely alluring. I remember container terminals in the 1990's, over 20 years ago, where all of the terminal trucks and cranes were unmanned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 30801 Posted November 22, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2016 Where?The anti-text and drive campaign is pretty big.For example Arizona appears to prohibit texting only for school bus drivers. http://handsfreeinfo.com/arizona-cell-phone-laws-legislation/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew F Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 The owner of the car can have a few beers when these hit the roads. .....I'll bet! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted November 22, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2016 Motorway driving must be an easy one for automation, lane control, speed control and distance control, although computer controlled, it could be traffic managed by a central authority which issues instructions to the cars (a bit like real life dcc control). Set up your sat nav before you go (like a flight plan), it sets up your journey with the motorway part managed for you. Make it a compulsory requirement for using the motorway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I know a number of people who absolutely do not like being a passenger in a car, and continually suggest or urge the driver to overtake, go faster, or use a different route. When driving in their own car, with a sat-nav they continually urge the sat-nav to offer them a different route, or ignore it.... Regarding driverless lorries, that may work on the motorway/trunk part of the route, but arriving in town what happens when the loading bay at their destination is already occupied, how will the lorry decide whether or not to block the high street when waiting for a berth, or how will it contact the warehousmen to open the gate? cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamperman36 Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 the idea of self driving vehicles opens up the problem of using a phone whilst driving, drink driving, driving without due care. You will still need someone to be in control of the vehicle. If a self driving vehicle hit a pedestrian you could not put the vehicle in court for an inquest or to answer charges. The idea of driverless buses would cause major problems with the drivers unions as it would lead to job losses. On a plus side you could have a car that knows if it is being stolen, so then locks doors and drives to nearest police station whilst also reporting itself stolen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Such cars offer the potential to significantly increase road capacity, efficiency and will probably reduce road deaths. I suspect that for the car as transport (as opposed to the car as an expensive indulgence) we'll see a movement away from car ownership to be replaced by cars on demand. I think the technology will profoundly change society, in combination with a shift to zero emissions energy conversion (at the car) I think it will completely alter many existing transport assumptions. There is opportunity for profound changes with fully autonomous vehicles. The Uber/Lyft/etc model allows for an electrically powered personal transport to be summoned literally at your fingertips (Douglas Adams' electronic thumb realized.) Once you are deposited at your destination the car scuttles off to serve the next passenger or to recharge. Potentially eliminated (over time) are the needs for a lot of expensive physical infrastructure like driveways, garages, car parks at workplaces and shopping centers. This makes traditional towns and high-streets more accessible and desirable, and changes the way high density living space gets designed. Not having to design retail and work space with setbacks and drainage to accommodate parked cars has huge positive benefits - including reduced microclimate issues from all that hard surface. No car payments. No car insurance payments. Naturally of course the providers will need to insure their vehicles against loss, so some form of insurance is needed, but not for the consumer. Fewer accidents decrease the insurance risk anyway. No MOT inspections. No drunk drivers. No inattentive drivers. No level crossing collisions. This was all the stuff of science fiction. While the technology is not yet 100% it is pretty close, and it is already an improvement over the population of drivers. Profound changes indeed. People will have all kinds of objections that frankly are moot. People will raise privacy, but no one using a phone or satnav really has a private location. People will raise the 'what if machines make mistakes' question and frankly they already make fewer mistakes than the 'average' human. (Everyone who will post that this is the biggest danger no doubt sees themselves as a paragon of motoring anyway.) Hacking will remain an issue, but I can't imagine there being no safety overrides, even if it is as simple as an emergency stop button. The biggest questions are probably related to fleet management - how soon will my transport arrive (including at rush hour) and will it be in perfect working order, mechanically and cosmetically - meaning, for example. not covered in the effluvium of the drunk who just used it to ride home. This innovation is as inevitable as the telephone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Regarding driverless lorries, that may work on the motorway/trunk part of the route, but arriving in town what happens when the loading bay at their destination is already occupied, how will the lorry decide whether or not to block the high street when waiting for a berth, or how will it contact the warehousmen to open the gate? All of those are pretty minor challenges though. The lorry can be programmed to arrive at a holding area at the factory site, and then manually driven to the loading bay. If necessary you rearrange your site to handle the autonomous lorries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 There is opportunity for profound changes with fully autonomous vehicles. The Uber/Lyft/etc model allows for an electrically powered personal transport to be summoned literally at your fingertips (Douglas Adams' electronic thumb realized.) Once you are deposited at your destination the car scuttles off to serve the next passenger or to recharge. Potentially eliminated (over time) are the needs for a lot of expensive physical infrastructure like driveways, garages, car parks at workplaces and shopping centers. This makes traditional towns and high-streets more accessible and desirable, and changes the way high density living space gets designed. Will they be self cleaning too? I can imagine the next user not always being too impressed if it turns up full of sweet wrappers, covered in dog hair, and smelling like a chip shop full of wet dogs! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 If a self driving vehicle hit a pedestrian you could not put the vehicle in court for an inquest or to answer charges. On the other hand it would be able to provide the police with plenty of video footage of the accident. I suspect the legal side of this is more straightforward than we think. The car has an insurance policy, so it's covered if it rear ends you. The biggest change is that the Government is making the manufacturer take a lot more responsibility for accidents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted November 22, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2016 Will they be self cleaning too? I can imagine the next user not always being too impressed if it turns up full of sweet wrappers, covered in dog hair, and smelling like a chip shop full of wet dogs! Worse than that - Beer puke! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Hmm ....... I think I'm going to write a "talking over the shoulder, out of the corner of the mouth" branching-subroutine for these carbots. "See the game on Saturday?" If no response, then: "That Teresa May; who'da thought it?" If no response then: "Brexit, that was a turn up for the books, and now Trump, what next, eh?" (I haven't put in all the 'else' branches, because it would go on for too long) Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Worse than that - Beer puke! Somewhat OT, I had this happen on the London Underground many years ago after Counsel and I had a lengthy liquid lunch after a Court hearing. I wasn't in any fit state to go back to the office, so he returned to his Chambers whilst I weaved my way onto a train home. It was late afternoon when the train arrived in Golders Green, and green was exactly how I was feeling by this time. Unable to keep it down any longer, I threw up as discreetly as I could....into a holdall containing various papers. Finally getting home, I can remember opening the holdall and realising - with mixed emotions - that the regurgitated liquid lunch had not noticeably damaged the hearing bundles. On the contrary, they were protected by another set of papers: the kit instructions for the Malcolm Mitchell "King" that I'd recently bought. The stains are still visible on the pages to this day..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 I have to confess that I've a lot more faith in reasonably competent autonomous vehicles than I have in the human driving population at large. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 I have to confess that I've a lot more faith in reasonably competent autonomous vehicles than I have in the human driving population at large. If there's still a need for humans to take over the controls in certain circumstances, surely their lack of experience will make things even worse. Or will we all be forced to live in cities, and rural areas will become no go zones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 There is opportunity for profound changes with fully autonomous vehicles. The Uber/Lyft/etc model allows for an electrically powered personal transport to be summoned literally at your fingertips (Douglas Adams' electronic thumb realized.) Once you are deposited at your destination the car scuttles off to serve the next passenger or to recharge. Potentially eliminated (over time) are the needs for a lot of expensive physical infrastructure like driveways, garages, car parks at workplaces and shopping centers. This makes traditional towns and high-streets more accessible and desirable, and changes the way high density living space gets designed. Not having to design retail and work space with setbacks and drainage to accommodate parked cars has huge positive benefits - including reduced microclimate issues from all that hard surface. No car payments. No car insurance payments. Naturally of course the providers will need to insure their vehicles against loss, so some form of insurance is needed, but not for the consumer. Fewer accidents decrease the insurance risk anyway. No MOT inspections. No drunk drivers. No inattentive drivers. No level crossing collisions. This was all the stuff of science fiction. While the technology is not yet 100% it is pretty close, and it is already an improvement over the population of drivers. Profound changes indeed. People will have all kinds of objections that frankly are moot. People will raise privacy, but no one using a phone or satnav really has a private location. People will raise the 'what if machines make mistakes' question and frankly they already make fewer mistakes than the 'average' human. (Everyone who will post that this is the biggest danger no doubt sees themselves as a paragon of motoring anyway.) Hacking will remain an issue, but I can't imagine there being no safety overrides, even if it is as simple as an emergency stop button. The biggest questions are probably related to fleet management - how soon will my transport arrive (including at rush hour) and will it be in perfect working order, mechanically and cosmetically - meaning, for example. not covered in the effluvium of the drunk who just used it to ride home. This innovation is as inevitable as the telephone. Future gazing around technology is almost always wrong , while we can predict technology progress, we do not see new inventions or the effect of disruptive technology correctly. For an example watch the TV series " the mighty micro " , filmed in the 70s. While the technology predictors were " mostly " right , issues such as the complexity and manpower required to implement complex software was totally missed. Predictions of a technological " leisure " society , either forced or by consent were totally wrong. In my view, personal ownership of desirable private transport will continue , just like it always has. Urban commuting will not be by any car , driverless or otherwise , and will be primary mass transit based. ( as urban densities increase ) The software demands of full AI driverless cars is like all AI requirements, incredibly complex and extremely difficult for humans to write the neccessary software, the complexity of the human brain is perhaps decades and decades away from being emulated even at a most base level. Predictions of some form of shared automated taxi style paradigm, miss the point that cars are as much lifestyle purchases , they are objects of desire as much as functional transport mechanisms. There is no evidence this is changing. Postulating an urban environment filled wth driverless Uber cars still results in massive congestion and many cities are today are moving away from car centric transport thinking , driver less or not. My prediction is that in 50 years there will be few cars in urban areas , and the whole " fad" of driverless automation will be viewed wth a degree of derision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 The Uber/Lyft/etc model allows for an electrically powered personal transport to be summoned literally at your fingertips (Douglas Adams' electronic thumb realized.) Once you are deposited at your destination the car scuttles off to serve the next passenger or to recharge. Potentially eliminated (over time) are the needs for a lot of expensive physical infrastructure like driveways, garages, car parks at workplaces and shopping centers. This makes traditional towns and high-streets more accessible and desirable, and changes the way high density living space gets designed. As an aside , while this is the fad of current " future gazers " it never seems logical to me Firstly , all these cars have to be garaged when not in use ,( ie quiet periods ) where will that be. ? , to provide reasonable response , you will need massively more vehicles at peak times , then at other times , resulting in inefficiencies. Peak time congestion will remain, resulting in both travel and summoning delays , both of which are unacceptable to the commuter ( you can see this today with taxis ) As for suburban or semi rural , the model doesn't work at all These days urban apartments are not designed to accommodate car owners, with less spaces then residents, especially for two car families, so we already have a non car centric design of many urban centres The future for dense urban areas is not car based at all in my estimation. We will no doubt see increasing amounts of automated " driver aids " , but just like planes and trains ( which are arguably far easier to fully automate ) , I doubt the human will ever be fully removed from behind the wheel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ROSSPOP Posted November 23, 2016 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 23, 2016 Future gazing around technology is almost always wrong , while we can predict technology progress, we do not see new inventions or the effect of disruptive technology correctly. For an example watch the TV series " the mighty micro " , filmed in the 70s. While the technology predictors were " mostly " right , issues such as the complexity and manpower required to implement complex software was totally missed. Predictions of a technological " leisure " society , either forced or by consent were totally wrong. In my view, personal ownership of desirable private transport will continue , just like it always has. Urban commuting will not be by any car , driverless or otherwise , and will be primary mass transit based. ( as urban densities increase ) The software demands of full AI driverless cars is like all AI requirements, incredibly complex and extremely difficult for humans to write the neccessary software, the complexity of the human brain is perhaps decades and decades away from being emulated even at a most base level. Predictions of some form of shared automated taxi style paradigm, miss the point that cars are as much lifestyle purchases , they are objects of desire as much as functional transport mechanisms. There is no evidence this is changing. Postulating an urban environment filled wth driverless Uber cars still results in massive congestion and many cities are today are moving away from car centric transport thinking , driver less or not. My prediction is that in 50 years there will be few cars in urban areas , and the whole " fad" of driverless automation will be viewed wth a degree of derision. Whew! I`m beginning to feel better today.......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kickstart Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Hi Suspect those of a nefarious nature will soon find a way to stop a driverless car in nice quote places (maybe with just a few human shaped cardboard cutouts ) for a big of mugging, or worse All the best Katy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 If there's still a need for humans to take over the controls in certain circumstances, surely their lack of experience will make things even worse. Or will we all be forced to live in cities, and rural areas will become no go zones. If it helps explain my point of view, I've long been a fan of J G Ballard . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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