Hornby Princess Coronation Class (Duchess)

[paul 27]

Buffer beam not level to me it looks to point slightly upwards the lining isn't straight which does not help though running plate not straight, had some derailing problems.

Edited December 4, 2017 by paul 27

[cb900f]

They've sold 2 of them, and stuck another £50 each on the remaining 2.

Back down to £199.99.

 

Pete

[No Decorum]

I bet it was a Hornby Black 5!

 

I have given up with the valve gear on these and stuffed them in a drawer until I get round to a decent set of etched.

I got a new Black 5 which clicked. Twiddling fixed it. An older one with non-TTS sound got its motion in a bent mess and the decoder went up in a puff of smoke. I wasn’t exactly happy but even when Hornby did pre-TTS sound, I didn’t like it much so consoled myself with the thought that a better decoder and sound project would soften the blow.

 

EDIT: to correct non-DCC sound to non-TTS sound. Brain unsound!

Edited February 11, 2018 by No Decorum

[daltonparva]

Back down to £199.99.

 

Pete

All gone now. That was a short stab at extorting, can't have any Yorkshire blood in 'em. Amateurs. Wait 'till I stick mine on E-bay. I'll make the bu**ers wince. Edited December 3, 2017 by daltonparva

[7013]

Thanks for the various replies, firstly, having seen the valve gear destroyed on my S15 I checked the clicking as soon as I heard it. Thankfully the loco has run for 2-3 hours non stop without problem. Second, I wondered if the 'chuff' on a Duchess was soft and listening to a recording it is quite soft. Being a GWR person I expected the bark of a King, the Digitrains sound project is superb. Third I am not going to spray matt varnish on my shiny 'Hamilton' i am going to lightly weather it to bring the tones down a bit but not completely get rid of the shine I love the finish on SWS but not so much on 'Hamilton'.

[MikeParkin65]

100_1826.JPG100_1829.JPGBuffer beam not level to me it looks to point slightly upwards the lining isn't straight which does not help though the buffers are at correct

height excuse the bad photos, running plate has a slight curvature,  not had any problems with the loco but the tender kept derailing had to widen the back to back to rectify this.

Fitting a set of Gibson wheels to that bogie will do far more to improve the Duchess than worrying whether that front footplate is marginally off the horizontal.

[vitalspark]

Thanks for the various replies, firstly, having seen the valve gear destroyed on my S15 I checked the clicking as soon as I heard it. Thankfully the loco has run for 2-3 hours non stop without problem. Second, I wondered if the 'chuff' on a Duchess was soft and listening to a recording it is quite soft. Being a GWR person I expected the bark of a King, the Digitrains sound project is superb. Third I am not going to spray matt varnish on my shiny 'Hamilton' i am going to lightly weather it to bring the tones down a bit but not completely get rid of the shine I love the finish on SWS but not so much on 'Hamilton'.

 

Agree completely and a light weathering with some powders that can be washed off if not happy will work wonders.

 

I give a pre wash with 'Humbrol Black Wash' boiler top down to the running plate and along same and all black smokebox and deflectors.

 

Wipe most off with a cotton bud immediately and even then you will see a huge difference.

 

It now has a good key for some powders and don't forget a little sand spillage around the fillers and generously brush black/brown mix in and around the ashpan and rear truck.

 

Obvious things like coal and lamps on the brackets...I can recommend Lanarkshire Model Supplies square headlamps which are dead scale and well manufactured and can be drilled and placed over brackets.

 

As the last post suggested treat it to a set of Gibsons and the picture is pretty well complete.

 

You will still have what would be described as an immaculate clean red Duchess but how they actually looked in the 60s and it will look like a model ready to do justice to your layout and not just something to put in a display case. 

 

Dave.

[paul 27]

Fitting a set of Gibson wheels to that bogie will do far more to improve the Duchess than worrying whether that front footplate is marginally off the horizontal.

What is the difference in diameter between the two.

[PanzerJohn]

Mine has a click too, can't seem to find out where it comes from. I'm going to refer to this as a "slider bar" and the lower part or it popped out. I eased it back into place and gave the loco a quick lubricating wherever the instructions said so. It runs brilliantly. The clicking has reduced drastically and only turns up some times but nowhere near as loud as it was .

Check that the piston con rod isn't catching the nut on the front driving wheel on bends when the wheel is at it's most lateral movement. Sometimes you need to bend the rod out a little to clear the nut.

[vitalspark]

Check that the piston con rod isn't catching the nut on the front driving wheel on bends when the wheel is at it's most lateral movement. Sometimes you need to bend the rod out a little to clear the nut.

 

 

Black plasticard strips placed behind the front drivers will limit the side play just enough to hopefully avoid a disaster..because if it locks up you are facing a complete set of valve gear and probably slide bars too.

 

You can bend them back of course if the damage is not too bad but the cause of the problem will still be there.

 

There should be no interference with the rods and you should be able to upend the loco and move the drivers laterally to their limit and still be clear of the rods..if not try the plasticard strips.

 

There is quite a bit of sideplay on these leading drivers to allow it to negotiate trainset curves in fiddles and so on but its a fine line between satisfactory clearance and none at all.

 

Pay attention to any clicks!

 

Dave.

[MikeParkin65]

What is the difference in diameter between the two.

Haven't measured the Hornby wheel but the significant difference is that the rim is bevelled as per the prototype and the Hornby models drivers. Have a look at prototype photos and then Coachmans photo's of his 46256 further back on this thread and you'll see what I mean. Alan Gibson wheels are a cheap and easy upgrade that really lift Hornby models. 

[coachmann]

Haven't measured the Hornby wheel but the significant difference is that the rim is bevelled as per the prototype and the Hornby models drivers. Have a look at prototype photos and then Coachmans photo's of his 46256 further back on this thread and you'll see what I mean. Alan Gibson wheels are a cheap and easy upgrade that really lift Hornby models. 

To save scrolling back....

[robmcg]

Agree completely and a light weathering with some powders that can be washed off if not happy will work wonders.

 

I give a pre wash with 'Humbrol Black Wash' boiler top down to the running plate and along same and all black smokebox and deflectors.

 

Wipe most off with a cotton bud immediately and even then you will see a huge difference.

 

It now has a good key for some powders and don't forget a little sand spillage around the fillers and generously brush black/brown mix in and around the ashpan and rear truck.

 

Obvious things like coal and lamps on the brackets...I can recommend Lanarkshire Model Supplies square headlamps which are dead scale and well manufactured and can be drilled and placed over brackets.

 

As the last post suggested treat it to a set of Gibsons and the picture is pretty well complete.

 

You will still have what would be described as an immaculate clean red Duchess but how they actually looked in the 60s and it will look like a model ready to do justice to your layout and not just something to put in a display case. 

 

Dave.

 

Any chance a picture of an engine thus treated? I agree it would look very good.

 

FWIW Coachmann's excellent colour pics are in this thread msg 1042.

Edited December 3, 2017 by robmcg

[7013]

Have got sets of Alan Gibson wheels for the front bogies too, will definitely look better. Thanks for the weathering tips, I do tend to use Tamiya weathering powders which are a little more 'permanent' than the straight forward dryer powders. Will probably use mixture of Tamiya and coloured charcoal which is my favoured style.

[paul 27]

Just had a closer look and body is distorted nothing lines up looking down the top of the boiler, piece above buffer beam twisted

hence the buffer beam out of line and pointing upwards, not seen this on the previous models  an issue with quality control as

previously mentioned, a lot of money spent and there is no replacements.

[Paul_sterling]

Just had a closer look and body is distorted nothing lines up looking down the top of the boiler, piece above buffer beam twisted

hence the buffer beam out of line and pointing upwards, not seen this on the previous models  an issue with quality control as

previously mentioned, a lot of money spent and there is no replacements.

 

Sounds an awful lot like you may have a first off molding there (which should NEVER be used).

 

Paul. 

[Silver Sidelines]

Those of you who read my Blog will know that my Sir William had a tendency to leave the track at one particular location.  After standing the model on a glass plate I decided that one of the slots for the axle bearings was too deep - I added some packing.


Duchess of Hamilton

I have now had chance to examine Duchess of Hamilton. My model jumps the track in exactly the same location as Sir William.

Back to the glass plate and I can slip a piece of paper beneath the same left front driving wheel as Sir William.  Ian Hargreaves in the 'other thread' suggests bending the bogie support to give more downward pressure. I will be applying some tape beneath the axle bearing as detailed in my Blog.

I don't know whether the bearing slots are machined or formed by casting, either way I am inclined to think that there is a basic dimensional error present.  I should add that the behaviour only occurs at low to moderate speed, not high speed.

Ray

Edited December 4, 2017 by Silver Sidelines

[MikeParkin65]

Those of you who read my Blog will know that my Sir William had a tendency to leave the track at one particular location.  After standing the model on a glass plate I decided that one of the slots for the axle bearings was too deep - I added some packing.Duchess of Hamilton

I have now had chance to examine Duchess of Hamilton. My model jumps the track in exactly the same location as Sir William.

Back to the glass plate and I can slip a piece of paper beneath the same left front driving wheel as Sir William.  Ian Hargreaves in the 'other thread' suggests bending the bogie support to give more downward pressure. I will be applying some tape beneath the axle bearing as detailed in my Blog.

I don't know whether the bearing slots are machined or formed by casting, either way I am inclined to think that there is a basic dimensional error present.  I should add that the behaviour only occurs at low to moderate speed, not high speed.

Ray

Interesting - I haven’t commissioned mine into service yet. My first question is do the drivers sit squarely with the front bogie removed? If they do that would imply that Ian is nearer the source of the problem and it’s a simpler fix than having to shim the bearing mount.

[Silver Sidelines]

Hello Mike

Interesting - I haven’t commissioned mine into service yet. My first question is do the drivers sit squarely with the front bogie removed? If they do that would imply that Ian is nearer the source of the problem and it’s a simpler fix than having to shim the bearing mount.

As detailed in my Blog about Sir William my first port of call was the front bogie and I ran the engine without its front bogie.  A to 'her ladyship' the track behaviour was the same as Sir William and I went straight to the glass plate.  I don't believe it is a bogie issue and find it hard to imagine how the bogie could lift only one wheel leaving the other five in contact with the glass.

 

Ray

[MikeParkin65]

Hello Mike

 

As detailed in my Blog about Sir William my first port of call was the front bogie and I ran the engine without its front bogie.  A to 'her ladyship' the track behaviour was the same as Sir William and I went straight to the glass plate.  I don't believe it is a bogie issue and find it hard to imagine how the bogie could lift only one wheel leaving the other five in contact with the glass.

 

Ray

I thought the same - I was clutching at straws that it might be the easier of the two solutions. Thanks for sharing your findings - most helpful.

[robmcg]

With the distortions in bodywork and now chassis geometry I am beginning to think that there is an element of gambling in buying a new model, relatively inexpensive (for what you get) though it may be. Annoying if they cannot be repaired or replaced.

 

I don't know how common or bad the problems are. With my fault Sir William (valve gear, body lug, imperfect paint) the seller said it could be repaired by Hornby with a time of 1 week, but I was skeptical and I took a refund instead (they had sold out from there), and bought another from a retailer who had two left.

 

On the other hand, perhaps it has always been like this?

[vitalspark]

Any chance a picture of an engine thus treated? I agree it would look very good.

 

 

 

Happy to oblige.

 

Already posted pics earlier and on the 'Hornby' thread but another couple.

 

It's still without the Gibsons on the front bogie plus the dreadful plastic cylinder drains hanging off in these pics have now been replaced by brass replacements.

 

 

 

Dave.

[robmcg]

Happy to oblige.

 

Already posted pics earlier and on the 'Hornby' thread but another couple.

 

It's still without the Gibsons on the front bogie plus the dreadful plastic cylinder drains hanging off in these pics have now been replaced by brass replacements.

 

IMG_1069-1.jpg

 

IMG_1077-1.jpg

 

Dave.

 

Ah, of course, I saw the weathering in the other thread but did not connect things...  my apologies.   Superb work!

[paul 27]

With the distortions in bodywork and now chassis geometry I am beginning to think that there is an element of gambling in buying a new model, relatively inexpensive (for what you get) though it may be. Annoying if they cannot be repaired or replaced.

 

I don't know how common or bad the problems are. With my fault Sir William (valve gear, body lug, imperfect paint) the seller said it could be repaired by Hornby with a time of 1 week, but I was skeptical and I took a refund instead (they had sold out from there), and bought another from a retailer who had two left.

 

On the other hand, perhaps it has always been like this?

 

 I would not say inexpensive at todays retail prices and more paid for my model, I did not see these issues with the

previous models, may be they will improve with the next lot or may be not, it is a gamble I think Hornby need to address

these problems, I thought they made a scan of this model though dimension wise it looks the same as the earlier one.

Edited December 5, 2017 by paul 27

[Horsetan]

   While we're picking at the nits, you two can't spell either. (Arthur Ransome, king's ransom).

 

Unless of course they were attempting faux-Olde Englishe....?