Formula 1 2017

[njee20]

Conversely, what would happen if, for example, he were to become involved in some unpleasantness later on in his career that leads to calls for the honour to be stripped? Much embarrassment all round.

 

 

 

To be fair it's hard to imagine what antics he could get up to in his career which would justify the removal of an honour. Far more likely any dubious antics be away from the race course, which would suggest that honours should only be posthumous, but then even that didn't work out for Jimmy Saville!

I'm never sure about sports people receiving knighthoods etc, they're doing their jobs. They're very good at them, yes, but they're hansomely (incredibly so in the case of Lewis) rewarded financially, and they're doing something they love. They get enough recognition as it is I say.

 

[chris p bacon]

I agree with you, but we've already given honours during careers (Murray, Farrah, Redgrave etc)

[trisonic]

I agree with you, but we've already given honours during careers (Murray, Farrah, Redgrave etc)

 

Don’t forget the tedious list of cyclists............

 

Best, Pete.

[RJS1977]

To be fair it's hard to imagine what antics he could get up to in his career which would justify the removal of an honour. Far more likely any dubious antics be away from the race course, which would suggest that honours should only be posthumous, but then even that didn't work out for Jimmy Saville!

I'm never sure about sports people receiving knighthoods etc, they're doing their jobs. They're very good at them, yes, but they're hansomely (incredibly so in the case of Lewis) rewarded financially, and they're doing something they love. They get enough recognition as it is I say.

 

 

Quite a few sportsmen get honours for what they did outside their sports. Ian Botham got his (at least in part) for his charity walks, Jackie Stewart got his for his work on F1 safety etc.

 

However I do believe successful sportsmen provide a service to their own country just by being successful, in that the success of home sportsmen lifts the national mood, which is then reflected in better productivity, increased consumer spending etc. Wasn't there a General Election one time where the result was attributed to the success (or otherwise?) of the England football team? 

[njee20]

There have been 3 knighted cyclists, is that enough to constitute a “tedious list”? Chris Hoy and Bradley Wiggins were both honoured after their retirement from the top flight. Sarah Storey still competes in the Paralympics.

 

By comparison there have been 7 motor racing drivers.

 

I’m not suggesting there’s no benefit from what they do, just don’t think they need honours personally.

Edited November 3, 2017 by njee20

[Jol Wilkinson]

If someone does something exceptional in their chosen field, then it may be valid to give them an honour.

 

The ones I object to are the civil servants who get an award for just doing their job.

[njee20]

But that’s exactly what sportspeople do, with the added advantage of £40m salaries...?

[Jol Wilkinson]

But that’s exactly what sportspeople do, with the added advantage of £40m salaries...?

Not all sports people do something exceptional although some, usually footballers, seem to get paid a lot anyway. Civil servants seem to get honours for simply doing the job for a number of years. Or is being a senior civil servant something exceptional? I am sure people in industry, medicine, etc. don't get recognised to the same degree. The exception of course is those in the media..

[njee20]

And very few footballers receive honours. Which surely proves the point?

[Oldddudders]

Not all sports people do something exceptional although some, usually footballers, seem to get paid a lot anyway. Civil servants seem to get honours for simply doing the job for a number of years. Or is being a senior civil servant something exceptional? I am sure people in industry, medicine, etc. don't get recognised to the same degree. The exception of course is those in the media..

 

I think senior civil servants keep the elected members from making even bigger fools of themselves, by briefing and advising on the known facts. They also draw up legislation, much of which, no doubt, is their own ideas pressed upon the public by the gullible MPs, anxious to make a name for themselves. 

[EddieB]

What is the point of the honours system anyway?  If not sportsmen and women, then "celebrities" famous for being on television, civil serpents whose title effectively goes with the job, then a few token "ordinary" people like lollipop ladies getting their Andy Warhol fifteen minutes of fame.  Apart from the recipients, does anyone care?

[Hobby]

And very few footballers receive honours. Which surely proves the point?

 

I can't even think of a current (or recent) British footballer that would deserve one...

 

Perhaps if they win something worth while...

[DCB]

I think senior civil servants keep the elected members from making even bigger fools of themselves, by briefing and advising on the known facts. They also draw up legislation, much of which, no doubt, is their own ideas pressed upon the public by the gullible MPs, anxious to make a name for themselves. 

In my experience some civil servants have greater political allegiances than any elected politician and are responsible for most of the disastrous details which ruin otherwise sensible policies.  After a lifetime of working in their luxury offices from 10 till 4 with 2 hour lunches they retire with an honour and a hand shake from the Queen and maybe an invite to a Buckingham Palace garden party. To be honest you would have to pay me to go to a Buckingham Palace garden party, so maybe I don't care.

 

Still think "Lord Button of Frome" has a ring to it while  "Sir Lewis Hamilton" is strangely redolent of Nelson's era.  That Horatio not Mandela.

[57xx]

And very few footballers receive honours. Which surely proves the point?

 

It proves the point that footballers are pointless?  

 

What is it now, 50 years since the last World Cup win? Has the national team won anything since then? (real question, I have no interest but always hear moaning from colleagues when the team goes out of any major competition). Have any of them been World Champion four times?

 

So yes it proves the point that footballers are way overpaid for what they do. An F1 driver, any race driver/rider in fact, is risking life and limb and therefore IMHO more worthy of their salaries (although could still be argues are overpaid too).

[57xx]

Toys and Prams come to mind.

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/21271182/ferrari-questions-liberty-media-plans-threatens-quit-f1

 

The grape harvest has gone incredibly sour.

[Pete the Elaner]

 

So yes it proves the point that footballers are way overpaid for what they do. An F1 driver, any race driver/rider in fact, is risking life and limb and therefore IMHO more worthy of their salaries (although could still be argues are overpaid too).

Any competitor in a solo sport (motor racing, snooker, darts) has to spend a fortune entering tournaments & travelling the country, continent or world, working their way up to becoming a pro & then only the top few get a really good wage.

Footballers get spotted, signed up to a club & get a regular wage.

[njee20]

What is it now, 50 years since the last World Cup win? Has the national team won anything since then? (real question, I have no interest but always hear moaning from colleagues when the team goes out of any major competition). Have any of them been World Champion four times?

 

So yes it proves the point that footballers are way overpaid for what they do. An F1 driver, any race driver/rider in fact, is risking life and limb and therefore IMHO more worthy of their salaries (although could still be argues are overpaid too).

A sample size of 20-22 a year makes extrapolation of F1 driver injuries difficult, but you could argue that the risk of serious injury is higher in football, and if that’s how we’re assigning validity it then surely motorcycling (and even cycling) far outranks F1 in the ‘worthiness’ stakes?

 

You can’t really draw parallels across sports, LH’s accomplishment is clearly phenomenal, but how much is raw talent and how much is the car? Would Andy Murray still win matches with a different racquet? Of course he would. Would LH be a 4-time world champ in a Sauber? Of course not! Does that make Andy Murray ‘better’? Who knows!

 

I think LH is as ‘worthy’ of recognition as any sportsperson, I think he’s a great ambassador for sport, among the best actually from any sport, but I still wouldn’t put his name on the list if I were drawing it up

[Hobby]

F1 isn't the only motor sport, though, and if you look at motor sport as a whole (bearing in mind all F1 drivers have come up through the ranks) and compare with football as a whole I expect that the risk of being killed or severely injured is far higher in motor sport than it is in football (has any player been killed in football?). Statistics can be made to prove anything so I am loath to make sweeping statements but I will in this case, I suspect a racing driver is more likely to suffer major injury or possibly death than a footballer... "Motor Racing is Dangerous" is printed on raceday programmes but not on football programmes for a good reason...

 

Though I remember when I raced that the HR people at work told me i was more at risk of broken bones going skiiing than racing the stock car!!

[Mike Storey]

F1 isn't the only motor sport, though, and if you look at motor sport as a whole (bearing in mind all F1 drivers have come up through the ranks) and compare with football as a whole I expect that the risk of being killed or severely injured is far higher in motor sport than it is in football (has any player been killed in football?). Statistics can be made to prove anything so I am loath to make sweeping statements but I will in this case, I suspect a racing driver is more likely to suffer major injury or possibly death than a footballer... "Motor Racing is Dangerous" is printed on raceday programmes but not on football programmes for a good reason...

 

Though I remember when I raced that the HR people at work told me i was more at risk of broken bones going skiiing than racing the stock car!!

 

It appears football is getting a little more dangerous - ask any Marseilles fan.  

[PhilJ W]

Its very difficult to compare the risks to life and limb between different sports. It is only comparitively recently that football and rugby players can suffer debilitating brain injuries in pursuit of their sport many of which have only manifested themselves in later life.

[Hobby]

And from the same era (of the heavy leather footballs) many racing drivers didn't even live long enough to suffer such injuries later in life as they were killed on the track... I also know of racing drivers who have suffered injuries like severe back problems later in life that can be traced back to their racing days...

 

Yes it's very difficult to compare sports like we are trying to but I'd still say that, certainly for severe injury or death, motor racing is more dangerous than football.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Hobby

[Hobby]

but how much is raw talent and how much is the car?

 

Hamilton wouldn't be in that car if it wasn't for his talent, raw or not... The very top F1 drivers only get to race for the very top teams based on their ability to drive cars to the very limit, just the same as Andy Murray only got where he is by his ability to play tennis better than most others. There are thousands of would-be Hamiltons just like there are would-be Murrays, but in both cases only the very best get to the top. 

 

Maybe in the old days of the 50s and 60s (and later, even today?) money could get you a drive in an F1 car but the top teams wouldn't employ such a driver nowadays, they just want the best.

[dvdlcs]

Quite a few sportsmen get honours for what they did outside their sports. Ian Botham got his (at least in part) for his charity walks, Jackie Stewart got his for his work on F1 safety etc.

 

However I do believe successful sportsmen provide a service to their own country just by being successful, in that the success of home sportsmen lifts the national mood, which is then reflected in better productivity, increased consumer spending etc. Wasn't there a General Election one time where the result was attributed to the success (or otherwise?) of the England football team? 

 

The two knighted former F1 drivers that come to mind, Jackie Stewart and Jack Brabham, I believe were both knighted for things they did outside of the car rather than for their performances on track.

 

One thing that Lewis Hamilton is doing is promoting the country on the world stage. It is the UK flag that is flying and the UK anthem that is being played when he wins a race and the world press reports will no doubt refer to him as a British driver, at least from time to time.

 

Something that came to mind after I wrote my last message: interesting that nobody is talking about one of the British Empire medals for him - they've gone straight for the knighthood. And people wonder if/why the Honours system has been devalued.

[ejstubbs]

Chris Hoy and Bradley Wiggins were both honoured after their retirement from the top flight.

 

That would be the Chris Hoy who was knighted in 2009, who won his sixth Olympic gold in 2012, and who retired from competitive cycling in 2013, would it?

 

And the Bradley Wiggins who was knighted in 2013, who then won gold in the world road championships time trial in 2014, broke the hour record in 2015, won gold in the madison at the world track championships in 2016 and another gold at the 2016 Olympics in the team pursuit before retiring at the end of the year.  Is that the guy?

 

You're right, none of the above listed could possibly count as top flight competitions.

Edited November 4, 2017 by ejstubbs

[EddieB]

OT (sorry).

 

Perhaps we should give gongs to the entire under-16 and under-20 England football squads, who've both achieved something this year which the England seniors are unlikely to achieve in the next fifty.  Poor kids, they're now doomed to sit on the substitutes bench (well, very nicely appointed and comfortable seats these days) while watching their over-paid and over-hyped foreign superstar team-mates get all the best action for the bulk of their professional careers.

 

Back in the days when the BBC used to show our major national sports (football, cricket, F1, rugby union internationals), they used to have a commentator - Alan Weekes (?) - who had the task of commenting on the minority interest sports - like the ones that haven't been stolen by the satellite channels.  Maybe we should start mining the "Alan Weekes Sports" for British superstars worthy of decoration.