Oxford Rail Annouce 4-Wheel Toad

[ndg910]

I can see a few issues but am thinking they've tooled the same body and merely chopped off one set of wheels from the 6 wheel toad to form a 4wheel version. What's with the gap in the footboard? We have lost Oxford's trade mark white walled wheels though! I'm easily pleased and it's on the list for purchase.

[BG John]

I'll be having one, and maybe two, as one will need a major chassis rebuild anyway. However bad it is, it will probably be a better and easier job than my butchering of a Tri-ang and Airfix Toad that I abandoned when it was announced.

[Miss Prism]

Is it time for a complete list of faults?

 

Most of them have been listed earlier in the thread, but Oxford has thrown in some new ones for our delight in the production batch.

 

And besides which, wouldn't that merely precipitate an avalanche of moans about the moaners who are moaning about the moans?

[57xx]

Indeed, woe betide anyone who might point out an error. They'll be accused of not being a "real" modeller (whatever one of those is) and the recipient of infinite irony about whinging. 

[Siberian Snooper]

Sorry if this question has already been asked, but should the sheeting go around the ends as the pictures of the sheets veranda's seem to look planked to me.

[57xx]

Looks like three versions. One fully planked with early handrail, one with sheeting, planked verandah and later handrail, and one with fully planked sides.

 

Shame the fully planked one doesn't have 25" GW, as I could live with that for now. What's the best way to remove Oxford's lettering? Not sure describing it with a 1920s livery as "early" is quite right! I wonder how many people will buy an "early" one to run with their glossy lined Dean Goods, even though the liveries don't match.

 

If you are going to re-letter it, why not go the whole mile, strip the whole thing and repaint it a correct shade of grey first?

[mikeharvey22]

If you are going to re-letter it, why not go the whole mile, strip the whole thing and repaint it a correct shade of grey first?

Is there a colour reference for the correct grey please?

[Mark Saunders]

Is there a colour reference for the correct grey please?

 

I doubt that anyone can say with any certainty what the correct shade of grey is as even painting and lettering drawings can be vague and was it supplied as grey or mixed on site?

 

Mark Saunders

[57xx]

Is there a colour reference for the correct grey please?

 

"Dark grey" according to Atkins et al. No paint formula's given, but non of the pics in the book are as light as the Oxford rendition, nor paints from the likes of Phoenix etc.

[Miss Prism]

Sorry if this question has already been asked, but should the sheeting go around the ends as the pictures of the sheets veranda's seem to look planked to me.

 

Verandahs were either steel or planked. Never a mixture, which is the major new clanger Oxford has provided. (Same with the 6-wheel AA1.) The outer ends of the cabin are probably equally horrific. Some Milliput and 5 thou plasticard will be required.

[Mark Saunders]

"Dark grey" according to Atkins et al. No paint formula's given, but non of the pics in the book are as light as the Oxford rendition, nor paints from the likes of Phoenix etc.

 

A wonderfully definitively vague statement.

This photo is off a Charles Roberts drawing and is equally vague.

 

 

Mark Saunders

[Miss Prism]

A good thread on the grey colour:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/100462-gwr-wagon-grey-pantone-matching/

[Siberian Snooper]

Th

 

Verandahs were either steel or planked. Never a mixture, which is the major new clanger Oxford has provided. (Same with the 6-wheel AA1.) The outer ends of the cabin are probably equally horrific. Some Milliput and 5 thou plasticard will be required.

 

Thanks Miss Prism, I thought that, that was the case, but I just wanted to double check incase I missed something.

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I read a reference that wagon grey was 7 parts black 1 part white although I can't remember where that came from but I believe it was a official source.

[lofty1966]

Oxford Fail continues apace .

Pitiful when compared to Hornby's latest offering.

[BG John]

If you are going to re-letter it, why not go the whole mile, strip the whole thing and repaint it a correct shade of grey first?

If it doesn't match my existing GWR wagons, I suppose I'll have to.

[Garethp8873]

Looks like when I get mine, they will be getting repainted along with the Oxford LNER Cattle wagons... at least this time I won't have to spend extra getting them refurbished.

 

Oxford Fail continues apace .
Pitiful when compared to Hornby's latest offering.

 

Not to go off subject, but let's not forget the Hornby SR Cattle Wagons vs the Oxford LNER Cattle wagons... Personally I'll have to look at these in the flesh but I starting to get really irriated with Oxford now...

Edited August 12, 2017 by Garethp8873

[The Johnster]

Oxford Fail continues apace .

Pitiful when compared to Hornby's latest offering.

 

Sorry, maybe I missed it.  Does this model have separate and not moulded handrails?  Not saying that this is the definitive factor, but it is an important one.  Pitiful seems a little strong given that Baccy are knocking out toads with moulded handrails unaltered since Mainline days apart from NEM.

Edited August 12, 2017 by The Johnster

[tomparryharry]

Nice to see the 4 wheel versions lined up. One possible minefield is the 50-odd years that the originals were in service That means that changes & repairs aren't always represented in the model. The planked version looks 'about right' and the planking representation is probably ok for the very early versions. The sanders appear to be missing, as at that time, it dropped straight down, just above rail level. For that reason, the sanding lever (the cab end) should be missing, being a later addition. I like the solebars, and the brackets for the footboards is quite good, continuing from the brackets, to the solebar proper. Oh dear! What's that? The footboard cut-out appears to be an alteration, left over from the 6-wheel version, as noticed by others. The swinging links for the springs depicts a very early toad, captured quite well. The verandah detail seems a bit sparse, but I haven't seen this up close yet. The headstocks seem different both ends, being both vertical and cut back at the return. Spoked wheels? Yes, until the van got uprated to heavier weights, and acquired solid, 3 hole wheels. This was also when modifications were made to the footboards, reflecting the earlier 8x 4/2" axlebox, to the later 10x5" axlebox journal. 

 

The 1930's version (Acton), sees the planking lose it's steel sheet, coming straight down to the curb rail. Some vans retained the verandah diagonal, some gained extra steel sheet. The diagonal verandah angle is a fairly early casualty in the life of toads, being taking a beating with use with the verandah door catches shutting with any force.   I'd be fairly certain that the verandah end had fully lost it's planked end, being fully sheeted up to the capping angle. I'd also be fairly sure that this alteration happened when the headstocks came in for repair. 

 

It appears to be a nice smaller van. The missing centre footboards are a bit of a howler. The handrails are a bit of an mix & match, but possibly reflect the differing repairs that came in & out during the vans lifetime. A van would normally have a lifetime of approximately 50 years. That means a van would go through about 7 major overhauls during that time. Little wonder that things got changed. I'd like to see one close up. Earlier indications are that it's a better/later fidelity from it's earlier Triang/Aifix/Bachmann forebears. 

 

On a slightly humorous note, I'd reckon that a Triang brakevan, being bought in the early sixties, would now be approaching 60 years old. Yes, I'm tired as well....

 

Ian.

[The Stationmaster]

Most of them have been listed earlier in the thread, but Oxford has thrown in some new ones for our delight in the production batch.

 

And besides which, wouldn't that merely precipitate an avalanche of moans about the moaners who are moaning about the moans?

 

I think it all depends how it is said - there is 'moaning' and then there is 'constructively drawing attention to perceived faults' - the latter being, in my view, very much as several posters have done between your post and this one.

 

And of course some of the perceived shortcomings of this model some have been well and truly noted in the past - and not corrected between then and now.

[drduncan]

I would certainly appreciate a consolidated list of faults/errors on the sheeted and fully planked versions. It would greatly aid assessing the amount of work that will have to be done before a commitment to purchase.

Duncan

[Miss Prism]

I would certainly appreciate a consolidated list of faults/errors on the sheeted and fully planked versions.

 

I really didn't want to do this checklist, because of the usual consequent accusations of nit-picking, but I guess the mag editors might want such a list anyway, as in the case of the DG, so, in the spirit of, err, "constructively drawing attention to perceived faults":

 

- All: gap in the footboard.

 

- The 'GWR planked late' should have a metal verandah (sides and ends) and should be plated on the rear of the cabin (although we have not seen the rear as yet). (Verandahs were never plated, they were either planked or full metal.)

 

- BR versions: should have a metal verandah end and plated on the rear of the cabin (although we have not seen the rear as yet).

 

- BR versions: unlikely to still have the original footboard with the low vertical kicker (see post earlier in thread).

 

- 'GWR late planked' and the BR versions: would have had bigger boxes, and unlikely to still be at '16T'. (The norm for the AA3s in later life was 20T, with quite a lot at 25T, and I can't find any AA3 with 8 x 4 boxes for that matter. Oxford has merely duplicated the AA1 spring and box characteristics.)

 

- 'GWR planked early': with its post-1920 G W, this would not have had the 'incomplete handrail' style. (It would have been better with 25" G W.) [The incomplete handrail style would however have necessitated different cabin windows.]

 

- 'GWR planked early': 17831 was not an AA3.

 

- 'GWR late planked' and the BR versions: would probably have acquired roof rainstrips.

 

- All: the window in the middle of the end is fictitious (it should be an ordinary lamphatch).

 

- All: chimney is too short (and should not be black).

 

- 'GWR early planked': depot name in the wrong, at least untypical, panel (can only judge the side we are presented with at the moment).

 

- BR versions: have been fitted with AA23 handrail fixings, which didn't happen to the AA3s.

 

- GWR versions: seem to have been fitted with post-1912 handrail fixings. (There is no evidence for this in the GWR era.)

 

- All: extraneous lamp irons are present on the sides at the end of the cabin.

 

- All: sandpipes and levers not present.

 

- All: drawbar plates should be present (although some vehicles lost them, depending on how end-plating was done)

 

- All: the planking on the cabin door should extend to the top of the door

 

- All: the shape of the sandbox inside the cabin is correct, the shape of the sandbox in the verandah is incorrect (although no doubt many prototypes had later mods)

 

- AA1: did not have the cross-seat when originally built, but were probably later modified to have one

 

Some of the above are significant errors, and some are minor errors. (How one judges or what one expects from a £15 thing is a divergent debate. I do understand Oxford's need to reduce the number of tool slides to an extent, but to put planking on ends of metal verandahs goes beyond acceptability in my view. We have DG syndrome yet again - an attempt to do everything, and the result doesn't portray anything.)

 

I share Mike's reservations about the lettering styles of the BR liveries, but am out of my comfort zone on that aspect.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Miss Prism

[Tom F]

The planked end of the steel veranda hits me straight away, and for that reason I won't be having one (even though I'm modelling the Bala Blaenau Branch). I've a frogmore kit somewhere.

[Garethp8873]

 

I really didn't want to do this checklist, because of the usual consequent accusations of nit-picking, but I guess the mag editors might want such a list anyway, as in the case of the DG, so, in the spirit of, err, "constructively drawing attention to perceived faults":

 

I wouldn't call it nit-picking at all Miss P., I would call it doing a better job than what the Oxford Rail's 'researchers' do... these minor errors all add up and they do not help themselves by almost ignoring them.

 

As many who know me on here and in person, the main focus I've on my layout is the wagons. Accuracy is very important to me as I know some people can see something incorrect in a snap.

 

When I first saw Oxford announce a OO range, I was very excited but now my impression of them is not good at all. Their LNER Cattle wagon I considered a joke considering the easy to put right errors and I've only accepted them on my layout after them refurbished and repainted. I know this make me sound like a snob but my wagons are the pride of my layout...

 

I even emailed them on the errors like one a many others and this was my reply...

 

 

Dear *****,

 

Thanks for your email.

 

I’m appreciative of your comments. For the 4 plank since our first model was released we had contact from several experts who seemed to have access to source material, so we’ve asked one of those to check the 4 plank – and he confirmed our research was correct. It just goes to show that not everyone’s info agrees.

 

If you’ve any original photos or a suggested source book, rahter than secondary sources for us, then I can see if we can obtain a copy.

 

As for released models, we’ve really too much on to go back and supply data, theya re what they are and we have to leave it to customers to choose whether they buy them and use them straight out of the box, or apply their own take on them.

 

Kind Regards

Tim

 

It didn't create a good impression with me as I do not see why it should be up to us to rectify those errors. If Hornby, Bachmann etc can take on the feedback and rectify the problems then why can't Oxford. If they keep going like this, I can see myself not paying for anymore Oxford products...

Edited August 13, 2017 by Garethp8873

[BG John]

At least the early planked version seems to be a reasonable attempt at it. Fortunately that's the only version I'm interested in. It's a shame the lettering is wrong, as I would have lived with 25" lettering, even though I'd prefer small pre 1904. Of course the apparently light grey colour means it will need a repaint anyway.

 

So, will it be easy to convert to EM, and will I have any problems slicing the chassis down the middle to produce the broad gauge convertible in P4?