GWR branch line layout ideas

[Cphillips86]

Hi all,

 

I'm interested in creating a model of a GWR branch line which had 14xx, 64xx and some others but those are the main two loco's I would like. I would like to do a layout ideally by the coast if possible. Any help would be hugely appreciated thank you Chris.

[John_Miles]

The usual choice is Ashburton. There are lots of previous models to copy.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Hi all,

 

I'm interested in creating a model of a GWR branch line which had 14xx, 64xx and some others but those are the main two loco's I would like. I would like to do a layout ideally by the coast if possible. Any help would be hugely appreciated thank you Chris.

A bit more guidance as to what space you have and what scale you are modelling in would help.

 

It seems that you want to model a prototype (hence the question about space) but you might be as well modelling a "might-have-been" such as Salcombe.

[The Johnster]

Porthcawl?  Needs a good bit of space but the standard locos were 64xx.  No 14xx, but 44xx for freight and anything you want except King and 47xx for excursions; also rush hour trains to Cardiff and Swansea with main line stock and 5101/31xx.  Any type of autocoach from the rtr ranges is suitable, and of course 14xx can be included by invoking Rule 1.

 

Lostwithiel? Harbour rather than seaside, but then so was Porthcawl at one time, and certainly coastal.

 

Or my proposed but never built imaginary one from some years ago based on a branch never built to Port Eynon on the Gower Peninsula.  I'll never build it now, the idea is yours if you want it...

[narrowman]

Have a look at my website: http://tonysmodelrailways.co.uk - Layout Ideas/Layout Ideas 2

Plenty ideas for GWR style layouts, which include a couple that are seaside based...

Tony

[Northroader]

A good branch with a seaside location is St. Ives, Cornwall, which of course is still there. It didn't do 14xx, but there's no reason why it couldn't have done. 45xx were the usual branch locos, and would double head through portions for Paddington, but again you put a larger loco on for that if you want to. It's your model after all.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Northroader

[Kris]

Your choice of locos would generally rule out Cornish branches, however there is no reason why you could not find one that you liked and just alter reality  and change the range of motive power for your own enjoyment. Another key branch loco would be the 45/55xx

[jamesg]

Looe could make for an interesting layout.  There was a goods yard beyond the single platform where passenger trains could run round - an unusual practice that occurred at only a handful of stations.  There are a few pictures here: http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/looe-branch-including-moorswater.html (scroll almost to the bottom).

[john flann]

Have a look at my Hintock thread (on here) and website (below). They should set you thinking.

 

If they don't give you some ideas nothing will.

 

All Good Wishes for your project.

 

And, if you have any questions please get in touch.

[Karhedron]

As always it depends how accurate you want your depiction to be. Brixham is one possibilty for a coastal BLT although the station was a little up the hill from the sea front. 1400s were the regular motive power on the branch. I haven't seen any photos of 6400s but you could always stretch reality a bit.

 

 

Fowey very nearly fits your bill but was not strictly speaking a terminus as the rails continued on to the harbour for the china clay traffic but is otherwise a lovely little station with regular 1400 workings. You could always do a "what if" scenario that the tracks were truncated at Fowey station with the china clay traffic routed elsewhere.

 

 

Clevedon is another possibility although again it is just short of the coast. On the plus side, it would be an excuse to run the only Terrier that sported GWR green livery, "Portishead".

 

 

[BG John]

Something based on Newham station in Truro has potential, being right on the quayside.

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/newham-branch.html

https://www.scalefour.org/layouts/newham.html

[The Johnster]

Thinking about it, you've set yourself a bit of a problem with the requirement for 48/14xx and 64xx on the same coastal branch.  They are different locos designed for different purposes, the 48/14xx being for the lightest work (along with the non-auto 58xx variant) and a bit of speed with 5' 2" driving wheels, while the 64xx is a variant of the 54xx, introduced for slightly heavier trains but with smaller 4'7" driving wheels which cut the top speed a bit but gave more power for 2 coach autos on steeply graded branches, especially in South Wales and the Plymouth area.  Even these couldn't ultimately satisfy the need for power, and 4575 class small prairies were fitted with auto gear for both those areas in the early 50s.  There was non-auto version of the 64xx, the 74xx, which satisfied the need for a modern mixed traffic loco for branches unable to take the axle weight of a 57xx pannier, but it cannot be simply renumbered from a Baccy 64xx because it has the square corner between cab and bunker which was a feature of the later batch of 64xx, which is not the one that Baccy model (my view is that they missed a trick with this).

 

As a general rule, not saying there weren't exceptions, 48/14xx and 64xx didn't work the same branch lines.  Cornwall, an area with some coastal branches that used 48/14xx, probably never saw 64xx beyond Saltash, only yards into the county.  AFAIK, 64xx did not see much action west of Swansea on the Welsh side either, nor did the 0-4-2s except on the Fishguard Harbour-Fishguard Town shuttle.  West Wales branches like Cardigan and Aberaeron were long and meandering, requiring small prairies with enough water capacity to manage.  You can always invoke Rule 1, but IMHO you'd be pushing it a bit; that said, Rule 1 is specifically designed for the purpose of ignoring MHO...

[Karhedron]

For something slightly different, how about a riverside BLT? It would give you some waterfront, even if not being coastal. Marlow springs to mind as a possible candidate. Although it was a little way from the Thames, you could always "adjust" the geography slightly. 1400s normally powered the "Marlow Donkey" but 5400s could be seen from time to time. Close enough to a 6400 perhaps?

 

 

Otherwise I will have to agree with The Johnster, I think you may have selected incompatible requirements so some degree of Rule#1 will probably be required either in the setting or the rolling stock.

[Cphillips86]

Thank you all for your input. I'll read through all your posts and get back to you with what I plan to do in due course thank you all again. Chris

[Pannier Tank]

Taking "Coastal" & "64"xx out of the equation the Fairford Branch had 14xx & 74xx 

[NCB]

As a general rule, not saying there weren't exceptions, 48/14xx and 64xx didn't work the same branch lines.  Cornwall, an area with some coastal branches that used 48/14xx, probably never saw 64xx beyond Saltash, only yards into the county.  AFAIK, 64xx did not see much action west of Swansea on the Welsh side either, nor did the 0-4-2s except on the Fishguard Harbour-Fishguard Town shuttle.  West Wales branches like Cardigan and Aberaeron were long and meandering, requiring small prairies with enough water capacity to manage.  You can always invoke Rule 1, but IMHO you'd be pushing it a bit; that said, Rule 1 is specifically designed for the purpose of ignoring MHO...

 

Not so of the Aberaeron branch. Clearances on the bridge leading into Aberaeron station effectively banned engines with outside cylinders. In the early days a variety of saddle tanks and the 517 class were used. The 14XX class took over the autotrain passenger workings in the 1930s and continued until those services ended.

 

However, the 14XX wasn't powerful enough for the goods services. A 54XX was tried, but something yet more powerful was needed, and when the 74XX series, a non-auto more powerful derivative of the 64XX, was built, examples of those were drafted in. You COULD stretch things a bit and use a 64XX instead of the 54XX, or even instead of the 74XX; 54XX/64XX weren't used exclusively on auto train working. In the Aberaeron case, 54XX/74XX were used because it was a light railway and the 57XX were deemed a bit too heavy. A harbour branch was envisaged for Aberaeron but never built.

[D9020 Nimbus]

Another line that had 14xx and 74xx was Tetbury (it also had the AC Cars railbuses).

 

Not of course a coastal line. I'm not aware offhand of any line on which both 14xx and 64xx were used.

 

One surprising coastal branch that saw some 64xx use in BR days was Seaton (Devon) — a Southern branch normally using M7s, but there's photographic evidence of 6412 in BR green livery in the early 1960s in "Salisbury to Exeter - The Branch Lines". No 14xx, though they did appear (rarely) at Lyme Regis...

[Jeff Smith]

If you can get hold of a copy of this book second hand or from your library it may inspire you https://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Western-Branch-Line-Termini/dp/0860933695

 

It is a difficult decision to elect whether to attempt a real location with all the compromises necessary, particularly the overall length which in 4mm could be 10 to 20 feet, or to design a 'typical' GWR based freelance design.  The GWR is well supported in terms of infrastructure with many building kits actually based on GWR structures (Ratio, Wills)

 

Another series of books which is both inspiring and great source of information is Great Western Branch Line Modelling by Stephen Williams - in three volumes from Wild Swan, unfortunately I think now out of print. 

 

My own compact GWR freelance layout is only 9' by 18" and comprises a three-way and two single turnouts but has a two coach platform with loop, a bay platform with end loading dock and a siding with goods shed.  There is no water but a canal wharf or even a beach could be added with a board width extension.  The pictures taken of Hemyock across the small river are I think particularly attractive.

[Rivercider]

Another line that had 14xx and 74xx was Tetbury (it also had the AC Cars railbuses).

 

Not of course a coastal line. I'm not aware offhand of any line on which both 14xx and 64xx were used.

 

One surprising coastal branch that saw some 64xx use in BR days was Seaton (Devon) — a Southern branch normally using M7s, but there's photographic evidence of 6412 in BR green livery in the early 1960s in "Salisbury to Exeter - The Branch Lines". No 14xx, though they did appear (rarely) at Lyme Regis...

You have beaten me to it!

 

Branch Lines to Seaton and Sidmouth by Mitchell and Smith has photos of both classes working the Seaton branch, though not at the same time.

 

After the lines in the West Country were transferred from Southern Region to Western Region control in 1963 a number of Western locos appeared on some of the routes.

There are pictures of 6412 and 6430 working the Seaton branch in 1963.

The line was dieselised in November 1963  but later there were problems with DMU availability and in 1965 14XX locos sometimes substituted,

there is a picture of 1442 at Seaton Junction, and a note to say 1450 also worked on the line

 

cheers

[NCB]

Jeff - like that. Good example of less is more.

 

Aberaeron which I dealt with above had limited passenger traffic but healthy goods traffic. There were several sidings in the yard and more wagons would appear going to or from uni-directional sidings down the line. It would be a good one for those interested in shunting and other goods operation. Could be done with tension-lock couplings and manual uncoupling, but maybe remote type magnetic uncouplers would be even better. There's a pretty accurate model of it which sometimes appears at the annual Aberaeron railway exhibition; it occupies quite a space.

 

Might-have-been layouts are more readily adapted to available space. A few suggestions: St Mawes; Land's End; St. Just in Cornwall; St. David's; Nefyn; Abersoch; Aberdaron in Wales. If the line is a light railway built after 1900 then it's more likely that a 64XX might appear on goods traffic, due to weight restrictions.

[Northroader]

Back on the coast, there's West Bay, Bridport, which probably would have had 14xx if Paddington hadn't took the passenger service off when they did. Just over the road from the harbour, and attractive station building.

[Rivercider]

Not a coastal route but passenger services on the Exe Valley line were operated by 14XX locos for many years,

they even did a regular freight turn over the short Tiverton Junction to  Tiverton branch though pannier tanks and 2-6-2T locos were the usual freight locos.

In 1963, and getting towards the closure of the line, Exeter MPD received 6400 which then regularly worked over the Exe Valley line in the last years alongside the 14XX locos,

 

cheers 

[Kris]

Cornwall, an area with some coastal branches that used 48/14xx, probably never saw 64xx beyond Saltash, only yards into the county.  

 

Re 64xx in Cornwall

 

Not all of the 64xx Plymouth Saltash Autos turned back at Saltash, some went further along the mainline, from memory as far as Liskard. 

[tomparryharry]

The Cowbridge branch in Wales featured 14xx, 64xx, 57/8750xx 2721, railcar, large metro.

 

Take your pick....

 

Oh, forgot the Taff Vale stuff...

 

Ian

[57xx]

If you can get hold of a copy of this book second hand or from your library it may inspire you https://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Western-Branch-Line-Termini/dp/0860933695

 

There's also GWR Branch Lines by C J Gammel and 2 volumes of Great Western Branch Lines by Michael S Welch to provide inspiration.