Deliberately Old-Fashioned 0 Scale - Chapter 1

[Florence Locomotive Works]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

Any views or nominations from others?

Not O gauge but the Gauge 3 live steam late model (1909 as opposed to the original 1899) LNWR Black Prince’s by Bing were exceptional, possibly down to being designed by Greenly but we’ll gloss over that. 

[Nearholmer]

I think is actually quite difficult to finger "the best" from among the pre-WW1 golden age, because there is too much to choose from. Even sticking purely to 0 gauge its quite tough with "Bing for Bassett Lowke"; almost any of the locos fit the bill. Of the Carette things, the GWR coaches always seem particularly excellent to me, but then, so does almost everything else!

 

And, what about the other modern revivalists, Modern B-L, Ace, and Darstaed?

 

Modern B-L boils down to locos, I think, because their coaches were actually Ace, and their (ETS) goods wagons were good, but not exceptional, apart from the tanker, which was a near-direct copy of the original. How about the EE1000hp diesel, for daring not to be steam outline? Darstaed 'coarse': their Pullmans seem very highly regarded; certainly not their locos. Ace? Way too much to choose from again, and a watershed between "early", and later, which are to radically different aesthetics. Too difficult!

 

We can open this to pre-1970ish 00 too, but surely not all the more recent photo-realistic plastic models that have come since, because (IMO) they have no appeal as objects in themselves. They're only models.

[Simond]

Interesting question. 
 

is the question of identifying a model which stands as an artistic item in its own right?  I guess the modern plastic mass-produced items are very good in terms of fidelity, but they are somehow lacking in emotional appeal.

 

I built a 7mm finescale 57xx pannier from a brass kit many years back, and more recently purchased a couple of Minerva examples (you can’t have too many panniers…) and having weathered a particularly grubby 67xx version, asked my daughter what she thought.  She immediately identified the brass model as her favourite (coincidentally, it’s the same age as she is, to the day…), commenting that it was somehow less clinical, better, something.  
 

I know what she means, but I don’t know how to define it.

[Metropolitan H]

Not sure how you judge "Best" from whatever era? Personally I am swayed by a good outline and "Face", along with performance in regard to locomotives, and my yardstick is the Hornby-Dublo of my youth - so for "0" gauge I look for the "Grown-up Hornby-Dublo".

 

In regards to the Modern ACE Trains items, I'm a fan and WJVintage / Raylo with ETS continue to excel - I'm desperate for the ex GNR "Large Atlantics" to work the West Riding Pullman set -and I live in hope of an SR ex LSWR T9, with Urie superheater boiler and water-cart tender - preferably No.120 as running in the late 1950s / early 1960s, real nostalgia for me!

 

Regarding the Hornby "0" gauge offerings, I think the best of the No.2 Special locos was actually the LMS Compound 4-4-0 - but do I want one, No! I'm happy with my GWR County class and would like a reasonably priced LNER D49 - but that is all down to personal whim!

 

but if I was asked what would be my most wanted model it would have to be a Sunset / 3rd Rail SNCF 141R to work with my short train of Electren CIWL coaches!

 

Each to his / her own!

 

Regards

Chris H

[sncf231e]

Many makers made more then one model that I like and I cannot choose the one that is the best (that is why my glass cases are overfilled). The main exception is Merkur. They make the ugliest products, but their SNCF 140C is very handsome in my view:

 

 

Regards

Fred

Edited February 11, 2022 by sncf231e

[sncf231e]

9 minutes ago, Metropolitan H said:

Electren

 

 

In my book: http://sncf231e.nl/elettren/ I wrote:

The name Elettren, from the Italian “treni elettrici”, is of course very appropriate for model trains that are propelled by electricity. Although the number of items produced is not very large and Elettren could be called a niche supplier, the name Elettren (sometimes misspelled as Elletren, Eletren or Ellettren or even Electrotren) is known in model railway circles.

Regards

Fred

[Nearholmer]

That is the perfect example of a maker "excelling themselves", which is where this began in my mind.

 

Question about that particular model: does it run as well as it looks?

 

With proper Hornby, although we might haver between individual items, there's surely no question that the No.2 Specials as a group were where they excelled themselves. 

 

I wonder if the Ace one that will be looked at in the same light longer term might be the 9F.

[sncf231e]

It does run reasonably well:

Regards

Fred

 

[Ben B]

It's a tricky one... My area of interest, increasingly, is 00 starter locomotives, and if we're talking clockwork, then how about the humble Triang 0-4-0 clockwork chassis? Pat Hammond describes it as being far too good a quality product for its intended use, and it really is superb and reliable. Basically mechanically unchanged and still for sale into the mid-1990's, and used inside at least 5 different bodyshells, you can buy them secondhand now and they'll still work perfectly well with no maintanance.

 

 

I'd also make a vote for the 00 Triang DMU... yes it's basic, but it's a lovely characterful toy, and when produced was a representation of the cutting-edge of transport tech. And another long-lived model too, making it into the mid 70's. No warping of the solid bodyshells, and a typically solid, reliable Triang mechanism.

 

 

 

[Nearholmer]

I do really like the 1950s look, and the way models made then mix seamlessly with models made yesterday, but nobody could argue that this was the most colourful period in railway history.

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

This could go on, given the range of vehicles that John Kenney drew for the Tootles book(s?), before he illustrated The Railway Series.

 

 

When you look at the illustrations, it’s difficult to conclude that he wasn’t using Dinky Toys and other die-casts as models, in the same way that a fair few Thomas illustrations are clearly based on Rev Awdry’s models, more than the real thing.

 

Here’s one for Ben. Daisy was, of course, bits of two Triang Met Cam cars, glued back-to-back.

 

 

 

 

[Hroth]

Tootles the Taxi...

 

Still got it somewhere!

It described the work of all sorts of 50s service vehicles. All we have now is white van man in two or three sizes...

 

The loadbed of that electric milkfloat is high, I wonder how many lead-acid accumulators were under it?

[F-UnitMad]

Looking at the painting of that flatbed Scarab, and the roughly stacked luggage, is that where the phrase "fell off the back of a lorry" originated?  

 

[Nearholmer]

Those were the days: when children were allowed to play out on their own, with their dog, in a wide variety industrial settings in the presence of moving goods vehicles.

 

Which, thinking about it, we did, even some time after that book was published.

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, F-UnitMad said:

Looking at the painting of that flatbed Scarab, and the roughly stacked luggage, is that where the phrase "fell off the back of a lorry" originated?  

 

 

Yeah, and what's little Miss Butter-wouldn't-melt hiding behind her back, eh?

 

 

[brianusa]

On 11/02/2022 at 12:32, Metropolitan H said:

 

Regarding the Hornby "0" gauge offerings, I think the best of the No.2 Special locos was actually the LMS Compound 4-4-0 - but do I want one, No! I'm happy with my GWR County class

 

I am lucky enough to have both on my layout.  The Compound was only $300 ( the sole reason for its purchase ) and while the County was a bit more, it represents the crowning achievement of my Hornby collecting, being of GW persuasion.  I have tried not to like modern trains; too many to afford, and have been sorely tempted many a time.  But with all my US trains, I have sufficient!

     I am at last thinking of returning to the train room after an extended absence due to my broken hip.  Hopefully it will tolerate a little more action now and theres work to be done on the layout, if I can manage it!

     Brian.

[Hroth]

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Yeah, and what's little Miss Butter-wouldn't-melt hiding behind her back, eh?

 

 

 

I used to have a Tootal tie like the lads, mine was green and black stripes...

 

[Flying Pig]

7 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

 

 

It's no wonder we lost the empire:  Persimmon could get a whole estate in between those houses; and what are all those plants doing in the front car park?

[Nearholmer]

18 minutes ago, brianusa said:

 I am at last thinking of returning to the train room after an extended absence due to my broken hip.

 

That sounds ruddy uncomfortable Brian. Very best wishes for complete recuperation.

[Ben B]

I used to have Tootles the Taxi when I was little; when the foster-kids moved in with us, I thought I'd get some of the Ladybird books, and was a bit shocked that a copy of Tootles in a second-hand bookshop was retailing for £40!

[Ben B]

19 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

This could go on, given the range of vehicles that John Kenney drew for the Tootles book(s?), before he illustrated The Railway Series.

 

 

When you look at the illustrations, it’s difficult to conclude that he wasn’t using Dinky Toys and other die-casts as models, in the same way that a fair few Thomas illustrations are clearly based on Rev Awdry’s models, more than the real thing.

 

Here’s one for Ben. Daisy was, of course, bits of two Triang Met Cam cars, glued back-to-back.

 

 

 

 

 

I wonder if any of the toy companies thought to charge royalties?

 

I do love when illustrators do that though, for visual reference, and spotting what are obviously Triang, Dublo, or Dinky products.

 

Somewhat darker, but the (suddenly strangely topical) Cold War animated film "When the Wind Blows" has a scene with a class 37 on a van train being blown off a viaduct by an atom-bomb blast. And if it looks oddly like a Hornby 37, that's because it's what the artist used as visual reference. There's a bit in the behind-the-scenes doc where you can see the artist studio with toy cars and things being used.

[Nearholmer]

Yes, I looked at getting some ‘memory jogger’ books, just for the sake of nostalgia, and maybe to help get the atmosphere right for the coming project, a few Ladybird, the odd Observers Book, and “Mr Crabtree Goes Fishing”. All astonishing prices in half-decent condition, especially the last one. My brain is calibrated to c1980 in this respect, when these very books were at the depths of the popularity curve, out of fashion, but not yet nostalgia-fodder, and cost about 5p each at jumble sales!

[goldfish]

It wasn't only in children's books that toy trains made an appearance, sometimes  serious artists used them as reference.

 

 

[Nearholmer]

Here are most of the key parts of what was Birlstone, and the main circuit:

 

Paltry Circus is snugly crated-up and in repose for the foreseeable.

 

Baseboards for the new, smaller layout should start their journey south from Yorkshire tomorrow.

 

“The old order changeth, yielding place to new, 

And God fulfils Himself in many ways, 

Lest one good custom should corrupt the world.”

[rockershovel]

On 11/02/2022 at 20:23, Simond said:

Interesting question. 
 

is the question of identifying a model which stands as an artistic item in its own right?  I guess the modern plastic mass-produced items are very good in terms of fidelity, but they are somehow lacking in emotional appeal.

 

I built a 7mm finescale 57xx pannier from a brass kit many years back, and more recently purchased a couple of Minerva examples (you can’t have too many panniers…) and having weathered a particularly grubby 67xx version, asked my daughter what she thought.  She immediately identified the brass model as her favourite (coincidentally, it’s the same age as she is, to the day…), commenting that it was somehow less clinical, better, something.  
 

I know what she means, but I don’t know how to define it.

I think this is something very particular to O Gauge, other gauge/scale combinations just don't have that "presence" that O Gauge has. 

 

As an artistic item in its own right, I'd say the Lionel "Scale Hudson" and its derivatives and descendants have it; the "War Bonnet" F3 definitely has it; the various late-30s British Pacifics have it, as does the quite gorgeous finescale 9F someone brought along to the last NAROGG meeting at Wansford

Edited February 15, 2022 by rockershovel