Deliberately Old-Fashioned 0 Scale - Chapter 1

[Nearholmer]

Hello Brian

 

Hip Hop? Isn’t that some newfangled music trend?

 

Seriously, I hope you are feeling well, and that getting about will be easier now.

[Nearholmer]

How long since I showed any layout-building progress here? 
 

Not sure. It must be months, a combination of lots of other things to do, plus building my stamina back up after covid (which has naturally involved cycling) have got in the way.

 

But, there has been a tiny bit of progress.

Last week I made all the “joint sleepers” to which rail ends will be fixed at baseboard joints, using plywood and fibreglass PCB, laminated together, drilled and countersunk. Making oodles of these was very tedious!

 

Today I fitted the first few, and fixed down the first few bits of track. The joint sleepers seem to work very well, providing a very solid fix of the rails and perfect alignment, without all the trouble I’ve previously had trying to solder direct to brass screws.

 

Here is the first board crossing. The soldering on this is a bit agricultural, but I got the knack after this one and made a neater job on the next ones.

 

 

Only another twenty two more to fix!

 

I will leave painting them until after electrical testing, just in case I’ve left any whiskers of copper to cause short-circuits.

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Nearholmer

[Simond]

The only concern I’d have with that design is that the isolated bit of copperclad supporting the centre rail is very short, and there is a risk that the copper delaminates, particularly whilst soldering.  
 

If you put the securing screws outside the rails, the insulation gap could be half way between centre and running rails, which will reduce the risk of failure.

[Nearholmer]

The bond of copper to substrate seems very tough, and I only cut the isolation gaps after soldering, to minimise risk of the heat staying too localised, but I can see where you are coming from.

 

TBH, the screws are where the screws are in order to match all the other screws (which, thinking about it, is a bit daft, because I’m going to paint over them anyway).

 

When I’m soldering-up the next lot, I’ll make a little test piece using one of the reject sleepers (I made excess and rejected the least neatly cut ones), then conduct a pull-off test.

[Nearholmer]

Mainly for Simon:

 

Here is the test piece, with isolation slots cut deliberately close to the rail.

 

I was able to lift a 19kg load with this, my bike, held by two small straps, using the sleeper as the lifting handle. I could feel the sleeper flexing slightly under load. No permanent damage or deformation. 

 

I then attempted to break the bond by hand, forcing it in all directions, and couldn’t, so I stood the test piece up as an X, and whacked into the upper V with a bit of steel bar c18” long, wielded enthusiastically. At the second whack, the solder broke, but the copper-fibreglass bond remained intact. It appeared that the solder under, as opposed to at the sides, of the rail may have been partially a ‘dry’ joint.

 

I then re-soldered it, and repeated the above. I must have got a better soldered joint, because at the third hard whack it broke, partly through the solder, but partly by tearing a section of copper away from the substrate.

 

My conclusions are that these are plenty strong enough to resist snagging or being knocked, but that I will cut the isolation gaps on the running tail sides of the screws, in order to give each rail a fairer share of bonded copper.

[Metropolitan H]

Very impressive, I must get on and do the similar bits for my layout - happily I only have 5 track joints across the edge (2 tracks) and end (3 tracks) of the lifting flap to deal with!

 

Regards

Chris H

Edited May 11, 2022 by Metropolitan H

[Hroth]

Interesting info.

 

I have useed brass screws alone to solder rail ends at baseboard joints to. Its easy to adjust the height of the screw head to just meet the bottom of the rail, and once thoroughly cleaned, and fluxed, solder readily bonds to both the screw head and the rail bottom. Tidy up with dummy sleepers and thats that.

 

You have a bit of an advantage as you are working in "O", mine is OO so sleepers are a bit more fragile and it's easier to delaminate the copper.

 

[Nearholmer]

The brass screw method is what I’ve used before, but it gets quite difficult with this size of rail (Code 200), because the rail wicks heat away very enthusiastically, meaning that dry joints are harder to avoid, which is why I came up with this. 

 

In H0 and 009, I’d occasionally have the reverse problem, with accidentally applying too much heat when making track. If that happens, you hear a little ‘pop’ as the copper delaminates from the substrate, which in that case was a lot thinner, and simply resin, as opposed to resin-impregnated fibreglass matting.

[Simond]

Obviously good quality stuff!

 

Generally, around this time of year, I and a few pals get to spend a few evenings, and the occasional Saturday afternoon, repairing my pal, John’s garden 0 gauge line.  He used Peco for the plain track, and handmade all the P&C from copperclad, and I fervently wish he hadn’t, as replacement of commercial products with more of the same would be quick & easy, if expensive.

 

to be fair, the line is well over twenty years old, and it has run faultlessly for the majority of that time, but tempus fugit, and John was older when he built it than I am now, and I suspect more flexible, but the same cannot be said of the track.  In general, the Peco has weathered well, but the copperclad is, at least in parts, not copperclad at all!  It’s difficult to solder to grubby paxolin or glass fibre….

 

I guess the proximity to the sea, and the resultant salt laden air, may be in part responsible, and this isn’t a problem you’ll face.  
 

I’m much impressed with the pull-off strength of the joint.  I do recall a similar experiment in MRJ many years back, trying to convince the old school that plywood sleepers and moulded plastic chairs glued together with MEK was the future.  Again, not a debate you’ll need to worry about!

 

 

[Nearholmer]

The bit that surprised me was how resistant it was to being twisted in an attempt to peel the layers apart - peeling is usually the quick way to destroy laminated materials, far more effective than pulling.

 

Anyway, you’re right: no sea near ere. If salt water laps around the spare room, it’s time to turn the layout into a small ark, grab a pigeon, and paddle in the direction of Mount Ararat. 

[Simond]

Well, I’m near t’oggin too, maybe only 200m or so inland but if my feet get wet, I pity the Romney Marsh as I’m about 50m up!!

[johnhutnick]

I offer a suggestion for cutting gaps in your copperclad that are narrower than shown, in order to have more of the copper bonded in place and less gap.  Take an aluminum handle Xacto knife, either the small size or #2.  Get a chisel point blade and use a stone to make a less delicate blade angle.  Now simply hold the blade against the copper and whack the handle smartly with a good sized hammer.  It will cut a very small gap.  But to do this, your copper tie must be solidly supported, concrete floor or heavy workbench.

[Simond]

And,  not relevant here but if you want a version that doesn’t show so obviously through the paint, use a large-ish grinding disc in the Dremel/Proxxon/equivalent and hold it so the axis of the drill is about 80 degrees from the line of the sleeper, and cut by pulling the edge of the disc across the width of the sleeper.  This is difficult to describe, but the result is a very wide but shallow cut, rather than a narrow one.  

[Hal Nail]

14 hours ago, Simond said:

if my feet get wet, I pity the Romney Marsh as I’m about 50m up!!

Completely off topic but I went to Canvey Island to watch Concord Rangers last year. Takes a bit of getting your head around standing on the sea wall with water lapping one side and then the island 20 feet below on t'other!

[uax6]

On 10/05/2022 at 13:36, Nearholmer said:

How long since I showed any layout-building progress here? 
 

Not sure. It must be months, a combination of lots of other things to do, plus building my stamina back up after covid (which has naturally involved cycling) have got in the way.

 

But, there has been a tiny bit of progress.

Last week I made all the “joint sleepers” to which rail ends will be fixed at baseboard joints, using plywood and fibreglass PCB, laminated together, drilled and countersunk. Making oodles of these was very tedious!

 

Today I fitted the first few, and fixed down the first few bits of track. The joint sleepers seem to work very well, providing a very solid fix of the rails and perfect alignment, without all the trouble I’ve previously had trying to solder direct to brass screws.

 

Here is the first board crossing. The soldering on this is a bit agricultural, but I got the knack after this one and made a neater job on the next ones.

 

 

Only another twenty two more to fix!

 

I will leave painting them until after electrical testing, just in case I’ve left any whiskers of copper to cause short-circuits.

 

 

Now thats something that is very pleasing to see..... all the screwheads screwed in so that they are all at the same angle.... Nice!

 

Andy G

[Donw]

Pretty good test I think. I am sure the use of the Fibreglass type makes a lot of difference.  These sort of test often prove that there is more strength in things than we suspect. I remember someone criticising Rafe Shirley for using 10BA threaded  handrail knobs on a live steamer. Apart from the fact it was repair an old model Rafe did a test and proved that the handrail screwed through the boiler had more than enough strength. Something the critic could have tried himself before banging off a letter.

My way of soldering to rails is whenever possible to tin the underside of the rail first and tin whatever I am soldering it to. I can then put the rail in place and just apply heat to the rail till the soldermelts and bonds. Saves applying excess heat.

 

Don

[Simond]

I remember the Rafe Shirley “controversy” - I think if the questioner had asked “is it…?”, rather than asserted “it isn’t..”, we’d have all learned a great deal less!

 

 

[Northroader]

8 hours ago, uax6 said:

 

Now thats something that is very pleasing to see..... all the screwheads screwed in so that they are all at the same angle.... Nice!

 

Andy G

Guy I worked with spent time in Swindon carriage shops being shown the drill by an old carriage builder, fitting the wood veneering in compartment stock: “Now, son, to get a good looking finish you need to get all the screw head slots at the same angle, so we put them in the pilot holes like this, with em all lined up, and then..”, picking up a hammer, Bang!, Bang! Bang!...

[Nearholmer]

During the second year of my training, I spent a good while in rolling stock workshops, including helping (hindering possibly) the conversion of old EMUs to be come de-icing trains. We installed miles of conduit, wired-up train control and de-icing control, days spent running, tagging, and terminating wires.

 

Then a carriage builder arrived to fit partitions in one coach. Did he cut openings in his woodwork to accommodate all our conduits? No. He took a big hammer, and literally smashed the conduits apart, breaking and tearing the wiring, so that he could fix-up his partitions.

 

Apparently, carriage builders are “first trade on” after the shell of the vehicle is complete, and electricians have to bore holes for conduits afterwards.

 

I was quite glad I was “only the boy” and could slink away while this was “discussed” between electricians and joiners.

[Donw]

29 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

During the second year of my training, I spent a good while in rolling stock workshops, including helping (hindering possibly) the conversion of old EMUs to be come de-icing trains. We installed miles of conduit, wired-up train control and de-icing control, days spent running, tagging, and terminating wires.

 

Then a carriage builder arrived to fit partitions in one coach. Did he cut openings in his woodwork to accommodate all our conduits? No. He took a big hammer, and literally smashed the conduits apart, breaking and tearing the wiring, so that he could fix-up his partitions.

 

Apparently, carriage builders are “first trade on” after the shell of the vehicle is complete, and electricians have to bore holes for conduits afterwards.

 

I was quite glad I was “only the boy” and could slink away while this was “discussed” between electricians and joiners.

 

On the other hand one of our club members Gordon was a coach builder at Derby and has mentioned some of the troubles caused by Electricians.

 

Don

[TT-Pete]

3 hours ago, Northroader said:

picking up a hammer

 

The carpentry teacher at school referred to that tool as a "London screwdriver"

 

 

[ChrisN]

2 hours ago, TT-Pete said:

 

The carpentry teacher at school referred to that tool as a "London screwdriver"

 

 

 

Other names to insult other peoples are available.

[andi4x4]

2 hours ago, TT-Pete said:

 

The carpentry teacher at school referred to that tool as a "London screwdriver"

 

 

 

 

My Grandfather, (Brummie, Born and Bred) called it a "Tipton Spanner"

 

Andi

[Donw]

Just now, andi4x4 said:

 

 

My Grandfather, (Brummie, Born and Bred) called it a "Tipton Spanner"

 

Andi

 

And some in the black country called it a Brummie Screwdriver. It is a sad reflection of the times that such joshing would now be unacceptable.

 

Don

[Metropolitan H]

One memory from my time in the Acton Works "Carbody" shop was the "Fitter" who was the quickest at removing worn door tracks - he had a two pound hammer and a strong right arm. Normally only two strikes on each stud / nut required, but it was dangerous to be in the vicinity as the schrapnel flew quite wildly.

 

There were other nefarious practises, which eventually were stopped - to the benefit of workplace safety.

 

Regards

Chris H