Chrisjh Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Just wondering if someone can tell me what the difference is between the old Lima Class 67 (67 005) and the Hornby Class 67 (67 024) Many thanks,Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 I wondered why Hornby chose to re-tool the 67 rather than something more in need of a re-tool such as the 59. Perhaps the 67 is newer and Hornby wanted to offer something up-to-date. I have 67 005, sold as a Hornby model. It has a very nice mechanism – central motor with flywheels driving both bogies. It has no tail lights; the retool has. The headlight above the cab is a dummy painted silver; the retool has an LED. 67 005 has a solid body moulding; the retool has see-though bodyside grills with radiators depicted inside and a see through roof grill (although the older model has a very convincing-looking paint job). The new model has opening cab doors and a very neat arrangement underneath for the installation of a large speaker. There are other enhanced details, such as the jumper cables being separate fittings on the re-tool but moulded onto the old bodyshell. All in all, the retool is a very pleasing model which is suddenly looking a bit dated beside the Dapol 68. There is no cab light and a single switch underneath which changes from daytime headlight to night-time. Curiously, no switch for turning the tail lights off. Note that the re-tool can have an eight-pin DCC socket or a 21-pin for the older sound version. The one you mention, 67 024, has an eight-pin socket with Hornby’s cheap but fairly decent TTS sound chip and speaker fitted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted March 6, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 6, 2017 The Lima 67 was a good model which could have been better. In the late 80’s/early 90’s Lima transformed their European HO offerings from being basically low rent, basic “railroad” level alternatives to the sort of super detailed models sold by companies like Roco. They ditched the pancake motor (not for all European markets admittedly) and adopted metal chassis with all-wheel drive from flywheel fitted centrally mounted motors. Detail and finish were also improved hugely to make them competitive with market leading alternatives rather than just being a cheap entry level range. The resulting models were excellent and some of the later Lima HO models are still competitive in today’s market in terms of detail and running qualities. The British OO range was excluded from this improvement, primarily because of RIKO I believe (but I may be wrong). Apparently RIKO (the UK importer and distributer of Lima) were convinced that British customers wouldn’t pay for better models, and at the time they were doing quite nicely churning out endless re-runs of the same tooling and calling them limited editions. For a while they managed to create the sort of artificial collector market and bubble that you see in many here today and gone tomorrow crazes for these limited editions. The Class 67 was a belated attempt to upgrade Lima OO to their HO standard but even this model was not as good as Lima could have made it IMO and it seemed to be too little too late. And by the time it appeared Lima itself was not in the best of health. For all of that, although the newer Hornby model is a better model, if you see the Lima one (including those released by Hornby) then it remains a very good lower cost alternative. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Just wondering if someone can tell me what the difference is between the old Lima Class 67 (67 005) and the Hornby Class 67 (67 024) Many thanks, Chris There have been 2 Hornby models of the Class 67. Firstly was the rehash of the old Lima model, with some minor detail differences, Hornby couplings and a better paint job. Then came the all-new re-tooled model, which is current today. The Lima model and the early Hornby rehash are a bit too chubby and I'm led to believe (but don't know if it's true) has the corrugated bodyside ribbing all wrong. The Lima models were prone to the loosely fitted can motor breaking free and were liable to crack at the corners if a loose motor whacked into the body end. The current re-tooled model obviously has better running characteristics, more detail, better lights etc, etc. It's a decent model, but not exceptional in comparison to current top notch D&E models. . . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted March 6, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2017 About ten years ago I designed a set of detail etches (window frames, grills etc) for the ex Lima model, in doing the research pretty much every single dimension was wrong to one degree or another. However, once fitted with the etches (and a scratch built underframe to get rid of the standard Lima moulded box) it did scrub up rather nicely. Of course then a combination of my modelling shifting first to purely 1998 and then to 1947, coupled with the new Hornby model resulted in me not producing the production run of the etch. One day I may even finish the 3 part built locos I have floating around the house, though I doubt it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted March 6, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2017 Not my usual area of interest but I thought Hornby did a full retool of the 67 because the corrugations on the Lima body-sides were wrong. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted March 6, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 6, 2017 About ten years ago I designed a set of detail etches (window frames, grills etc) for the ex Lima model, in doing the research pretty much every single dimension was wrong to one degree or another. The side window error is highlighted when you try to paint one in Colas colours. The lower edge of the black below the cab side windows ends up far too low across the front........... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 The Lima mechanism was marginal too, as already mentioned above. There was plenty of online complaint about its less than stellar reliability and robustness if you actually dared run it. I had at least three of the Hornby versions from the Lima tooling to 'doctor' into reasonable running order, all of them owned by the young. Presumably there were the sales at the time to support a retool to correct these and the other deficiencies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47164 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 The Lima model also has a circuit board that looks dcc compatible, but I recall from observations at the time that it was rather economical with the truth and that people had to rip it out and build their own.!!!! That aside you don't see many Lima examples for sale ....so perhaps they aren't so bad after all?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamperman36 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Or they were simply so bad those who bought them just confined them to the spares bin and went out and bought the better Hornby model. The Lima model wasn't actually around that long at all before the demise of the Lima company, so they didn't have any time to improve the mechanism and refine it, however if the company was already struggling when the model was released it could also answer some of the issues with the original Lima model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisjh Posted March 8, 2017 Author Share Posted March 8, 2017 Many thanks everyone I am thinking of buying 67 024 not sure which Hornby version this is? Best, Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted March 8, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 8, 2017 That's one of the new Hornby super detail models Chris. Not the rehashed Lima tooling. Regards, Ryan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 The new model has opening cab doors That is unfortunately not the case...The updated model has a lot of features but not opening doors which I assume you've either gotten confused with older super-detailed models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 That is unfortunately not the case...The updated model has a lot of features but not opening doors which I assume you've either gotten confused with older super-detailed models. I have just been to prod the doors of my two and you are, of course, right. Thank you for correcting that and my apologies for giving dud information. I await the blindfold first thing in the morning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I wish you'd made a video ND! Bloke walks into hobby room, selects loco, poke-poke. "Bah!" Fin. C6T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I wish you'd made a video ND! Bloke walks into hobby room, selects loco, poke-poke. "Bah!" Fin. C6T. “Bah!” would be the Bowdlerised version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Your swear jar must be a horn of plenty! C6T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spice1977 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Just received a TTS 67 and its a very impressive model, the sound is clear and running quality exceptional. Very well built and far superior to the Lima ones - of which I have several. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ruggedpeak Posted March 11, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 11, 2017 All in all, the retool is a very pleasing model which is suddenly looking a bit dated beside the Dapol 68. Call me old fashioned but at least the Hornby model has the same livery on both sides! The latest version of the 67 is an excellent model overall. The 68 is a work in progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Call me old fashioned but at least the Hornby model has the same livery on both sides! The latest version of the 67 is an excellent model overall. The 68 is a work in progress. I can’t quarrel with your first statement, not in relation to the DRS version. Consternation at Dapol, I hope. There are two other liveries which look a little less, er, eccentric. I like my 67s but I still feel the 68s outclass them (by more than 1). I’ll admit that the arrangement for fitting sound is good on the 67s but I haven’t tried fitting sound to the 68s yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
classy52 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) I can’t quarrel with your first statement, not in relation to the DRS version. Consternation at Dapol, I hope. There are two other liveries which look a little less, er, eccentric. I like my 67s but I still feel the 68s outclass them (by more than 1). I’ll admit that the arrangement for fitting sound is good on the 67s but I haven’t tried fitting sound to the 68s yet. I've never tried fitting sound to my modern image diesel loco's but too be honest judging by what has been said on these forums in regards to fitting sound within a Dapol Class 68 it seems to be somewhat of a black art and scares the crap out of me, even attempting to take the Class 68 body off would put me off let alone fitting sound. Is it me or would I be correct in saying that any loco's manufactured today should enable anyone to fit a DCC chip and a speaker seamlessly without the need to tinker with wires or the internal body which I've seen on these forums such as cutting away wires and re-arranging them etc as within the Class 68, does there need to be a lot more refinement from manufacturers inside the body because even today loco's still look a bit of a mess. Would like to hear your viewpoints. Cheers Steve Edited March 11, 2017 by classy52 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted March 12, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 12, 2017 I've never tried fitting sound to my modern image diesel loco's but too be honest judging by what has been said on these forums in regards to fitting sound within a Dapol Class 68 it seems to be somewhat of a black art and scares the crap out of me, even attempting to take the Class 68 body off would put me off let alone fitting sound. Is it me or would I be correct in saying that any loco's manufactured today should enable anyone to fit a DCC chip and a speaker seamlessly without the need to tinker with wires or the internal body which I've seen on these forums such as cutting away wires and re-arranging them etc as within the Class 68, does there need to be a lot more refinement from manufacturers inside the body because even today loco's still look a bit of a mess. Would like to hear your viewpoints. Cheers Steve Taking the body off a Dapol 68 is easier than a Hornby 67. No need for a screwdriver. As for removing the body from a Lima 67, you need long fingernails,four hands and more than a gentle touch.. To fit sound into a Dapol 68 is relatively easy, but.......... If you want to fit anything other than a normal speaker (and that often seems to be the case nowadays as folk want louder/more bass), then there is a bit more fiddling about. The main issue with Dapol 68s seems to be the correct setup for using a six-function decoder. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofjamie Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Call me old fashioned but at least the Hornby model has the same livery on both sides! The latest version of the 67 is an excellent model overall. The 68 is a work in progress. For many years I wouldn't have touched any Hornby model with a barge-pole, but thanks partly to Bachmann now looking for you to take out a second mortgage to buy one of their offerings, and being tempted by a few 'special' offers that have been available the last couple of years on some Hornby models from certain online retailers, I have been persuaded to buy some of their re-tooled offerings and very impressed I am too!! The difference between the old HST and the new one is night and day - was absolutely blown away when I took it out of the box and powered it up - looks and runs like a dream! My latest 'bargain' arrived today in the post, alongside a Dapol 'special offer' from Rails:- Personally I think both the 67 and the 68 are great models and both Hornby and Dapol should be given credit where credit's due (OK the DRS livery thing was very naughty but I'm sure they'll have it sorted in the next batch) and I'm very pleased to have both running on my layout. I will be looking out for the possibility of putting more Hornby stock on my layout in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mooresby Posted September 23, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2020 Just to ressurrect this thread from the days of the old king, can anyone give me guidance on removing the bogies frames on the Hornby 67 please? I want to paint the wheels but am nervous about damaging anything due to my heavy handedness / general ineptitude.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted September 23, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, Mooresby said: Just to ressurrect this thread from the days of the old king, can anyone give me guidance on removing the bogies frames on the Hornby 67 please? I want to paint the wheels but am nervous about damaging anything due to my heavy handedness / general ineptitude.... I've been wrestling with two of them earlier today.... but not for wheel painting. Lever the moulding gently from the inner end of the bogie block with a small blade or screwdriver. There are two small clips. It is a combined keeper plate and outer bogie moulding. The outer part of the frame will also need gentle outward pressure to ease it away from clips on the main bogie block. Watch out on reassembly for the pickups wanting to not stay behind the wheels as you clip it all back together. TBH - I have another method for painting wheels. It does involve having a rolling road at the edge of a high-ish shelf (and not on the workbench) Put the loco on the rolling road and turn power on. Hold a paintbrush carefully against the rotating wheel and job done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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