Little Muddle

[KNP]

Tony Atkins' new book "GWR Goods Cartage" might have some relevant info when it is released later this month.

 

http://www.crecy.co.uk/gwr-goods-cartage

 

(Wonderful cover photos!)

 

Might do so I will keep an eye out for it.

I notice that the wagon portrayed on the front has a number of 1374 on it.....!!!!

Thanks

Edited July 6, 2018 by KNP

[Mrkirtley800]

As a final throw on dust bins. During my childhood in the 1940s Leeds, we had a dust bin round the back of the house. It had a handle about half way up from the bottom and the bin man used to haul it on his back, holding the thing in place on his shoulder by the handle. This is the time when dust bin men were dust bin men, no poncy bins on wheels. It must have been made of thin sheet steel because it eventually rusted away. Everything went in that bin, although some ashes from the fire went on the garden or in winter on icy paths. Newspapers were used in the loo.

I seem to remember the dust cart was horse drawn at one time. I had a trolley on wheels and I used to sit on it and go hell for leather down our road, once finishing up under the horse pulling the dust cart. My mother nearly had a fit, but the horse was a patient old thing and never moved. I am glad he didn’t decide to have a pee, I would have been washed away.

Derek

Edited July 6, 2018 by Mrkirtley800

[Marly51]

Regarding the number on the side of the horse drawn wagon it has been pointed out to me by my 'learned' friend from 'oop norff' that this might be a pre 1932 telephone number which was only four digits for the Bristol area.

I do believe he might be right so I will now concoct something.

 

Regarding previous posts how did we end up chatting about dustbins in such depth...….so taking all the comments to heart I think I will remove the galvanised steel ones I have on Little Muddle and replace them with coal bins - safer!!!!

 

I agree with one of the posts on how with this hobby we end up researching all sorts of things - for example I spent ages looking at colours for horses and then the type/arrangement for the reins/harness???

Apologies for going off topic, Kevin! Enjoying following your modelling marvels. I do like the historic side of railways and railway environments, but can imagine some of the younger modelmakers inwardly groaning when we drift off into recounting memories of the ‘old days’!

 

Marlyn

[KNP]

Apologies for going off topic, Kevin! Enjoying following your modelling marvels. I do like the historic side of railways and railway environments, but can imagine some of the younger modelmakers inwardly groaning when we drift off into recounting memories of the ‘old days’!

 

Marlyn

 

Off topic, I do believe this seems to be a common occurrence when looking at other threads...….so we might as well go with the flow!

Agree, but it does depend on how old you are!!!!

Edited July 6, 2018 by KNP

[Martin S-C]

Hi Kevin - sorry it was me who started the dustbin thing. I was reading the first few pages of your thread where a photo from you showed a back yard of one of your houses/industries that showed a corrugated metal bin and since I'd just had a long think about domestic refuse collection in the 20s for my own layout, I wondered if you knew something I didn't.

Yes, it seems metal bins of varying sorts were gradually becoming standardised either around the time of WWII or in the 10 years after that but the information I've located online mentioned that town councils only chose the familiar corrugated bins around the early 60s - though of course some were in use prior to that, probably by about 20 years. Before WWII I've yet to pin anything down.

 

here's one interesting article I found:

 

http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/fass/projects/esf/bins.htm

 

Thanks to everyone who responded on this interesting sub-plot - now we return you to our headline story!

[chuffinghell]

A very inspirational layout it’s certainly got me of my backside to make a start on my own

[Marly51]

Off topic, I do believe this seems to be a common occurrence when looking at other threads...….so we might as well go with the flow!

Agree, but it does depend on how old you are!!!!

I should have said “I” Kevin - definitely one of the oldies, but young at heart!!

[KNP]

I should have said “I” Kevin - definitely one of the oldies, but young at heart!!

We are all ‘young at heart’.....

[Mrkirtley800]

I don’t think Martin S-C should apologise for going off topic. The discussion was dust bins and when they started being used etc. We are all railway modellers, and little details like having the correct pattern of details can really make a model railway. Kevin’s layout is superb, made better by having the correct street furniture for the period modelled.

I have been looking up pillar boxes and what they would have been like in 1908, the period of my railway. The P4 boys rejoice in “getting it all right” so why shouldn’t the rest of us.

Derek

[Limpley Stoker]

At the risk of veering too far off topic, remembering the days of the horse drawn milk floats and bread delivery vans, I recall it was usual to feed the horses hay when parked up for a period of time from a canvas nosebag suspended from the headgear. I suspect nose bags are still used on brewery drays today but I wondered if your horses were hungry.

Edited July 6, 2018 by Limpley Stoker

[Marly51]

At the risk of veering too far off topic, remembering the days of the horse drawn milk floats and bread delivery vans, I recall it was usual to feed the horses hay when parked up for a period of time from a canvas nosebag suspended from the headgear. I suspect nose bags are still used on brewery drays today but I wondered if your horses were hungry.

Was checking horse in Mike Oxon’s post - Edinburgh milk horses also wore ‘blinkers’.

[KNP]

Hi Kevin - sorry it was me who started the dustbin thing. I was reading the first few pages of your thread where a photo from you showed a back yard of one of your houses/industries that showed a corrugated metal bin and since I'd just had a long think about domestic refuse collection in the 20s for my own layout, I wondered if you knew something I didn't.

 

Yes, it seems metal bins of varying sorts were gradually becoming standardised either around the time of WWII or in the 10 years after that but the information I've located online mentioned that town councils only chose the familiar corrugated bins around the early 60s - though of course some were in use prior to that, probably by about 20 years. Before WWII I've yet to pin anything down.

 

here's one interesting article I found:

 

http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/fass/projects/esf/bins.htm

 

Thanks to everyone who responded on this interesting sub-plot - now we return you to our headline story!

 

No need to apologise Martin S-C, it's from all it's from these little tit bits that we pick up information that makes our models more realistic.

After all people do this with loco's and rolling stock so why not the rest of it...…

If you look back through earlier posts I appear to have the wrong tractor for the era - I hadn't given it a thought that was the case as it looked old to me when I brought it!!!!!

Anymore information you find please post, I can tell you I have actually been up to the layout and removed all the bins, so if you find out more let me (us) know.

 

Thanks

[Re6/6]

An over view of the CBC model showing the barn

Since I took this picture ivy has sprouted out, not too much but enough....

 

NAO 7.jpg

 

I feel another small tree is needed in front of the barn?

A superb tree there Kevin. ls that a natural armature with seafoam?

[Simond]

I was delighted by the Pagefield post, thanks.

 

An early, indeed very early, implementation of swap-bodies.

 

The truck looks like a Thorneycroft but that might be a guesstimate too far. If I’m right, that type of cab was around from the late 20’s / early 30’s.

 

It looks like the horse’s drawgear has trolley wheels too, which suggests some kind of coupling under the front of the body, presumably the same for horse, or truck. Possibly the body is articulated, which would presumably stop it rolling away when uncoupled, but the photo suggests the small wheels are off the ground, so I’m not convinced about that. I shall certainly go googling!

 

Best

Simon

[cliff park]

A couple of small points:- the nosebag would have contained oats and/or mash, hay in a bag that size would last about 10 seconds, the blinkers became much more common as more and more motorised vehicles came on the scene, to stop the horses being spooked by them.

[The Stationmaster]

Was checking horse in Mike Oxon’s post - Edinburgh milk horses also wore ‘blinkers’.

 

It was the usual practice to put blinkers on horses if they were going out on public roads or in traffic and were inclined to be distracted.

[KNP]

It was the usual practice to put blinkers on horses if they were going out on public roads or in traffic and were inclined to be distracted.

 

Does it work on grandchildren?

[Andrew P]

Does it work on grandchildren?

 

Only if their on a Lead, and with a Muzzle.

[KNP]

On 07/07/2018 at 08:02, Re6/6 said:

A superb tree there Kevin. ls that a natural armature with seafoam?

 

John

 

Lifted from the Feb BRM article they are made from

 

Sagebrush armatures - a natural bush from the United States

 

 

 

then Seamoss cut into these small 'sprigs'

 

 

 

Attached to tree armature, building up from lower section

 

 

 

Then blended turf sprinkled on

 

 

 

This is a quick overview but then article deals with it in depth.

Hope this helps

Edited March 19 by KNP

[KNP]

Only if their on a Lead, and with a Muzzle.

 

Well, it didn't on the walk back from the school fete earlier....

[MikeOxon]

I was delighted by the Pagefield post, thanks.

 

An early, indeed very early, implementation of swap-bodies.

 

The truck looks like a Thorneycroft but that might be a guesstimate too far. If I’m right, that type of cab was around from the late 20’s / early 30’s.

 

It looks like the horse’s drawgear has trolley wheels too, which suggests some kind of coupling under the front of the body, presumably the same for horse, or truck. Possibly the body is articulated, which would presumably stop it rolling away when uncoupled, but the photo suggests the small wheels are off the ground, so I’m not convinced about that. I shall certainly go googling!

 

Best

Simon

Pagefield actually made their own lorries in Wigan and were responsible for several innovations.  Their refuse collection systems were widely adopted in the 1920s-30s.  Read about their history at https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Pagefield They later became Walkers, which continued to specialise in refuse collection

[KNP]

[Martin S-C]

But.. but... you've left them out for collection... on a layout that exists before they do!

 

My brain is going onto time paradox meltdown.

 

On other news the Pagefield info was really interesting. I have never seen a vehicle like this modelled on a layout - who's going to have a go at one first?

[The Johnster]

Perhaps this should go into 'Teenage Confessions' in Musings and Miscellany, but my loft layout from those days featured dustbins in the form of (I think) .303 rifle cartridge cases from a bloke who was in the Cadets.  I'd have preferred if they'd had a bit of taper, but they'd have probably been useless for firing bullets from in that case...

[BWsTrains]

 

Sagebrush armatures - a natural bush from the United States

IMG_0972.JPG

 

Kevin,

 

superb stuff.

 

For those interested in avoiding unnecessary US imports (so topical), in place of sagebrush armatures, pieces from an aging English Lavender look remarkably similar. By careful selection, pieces suitable for small to very large trees can be obtained and of course they are free. This is a sample from my stock, sorry, not the best photo but I regularly find off-cuts looking very similar to your first photo.

 

Colin

 

Edited July 8, 2018 by BWsTrains