Arthur Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 A judge has decreed that a woman who persistently parked on private land and refused to pay the parking fee has to pay £24,500. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-39478203 Cannot say I have much sympathy with her. Convinced in her own mind, probably reinforced by barrack room lawyers, that such fees have no legal validity. They do. A costly lesson. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 I hope it is noted that it was private land and the fees are a form of contract, in which she was in breach of, she did not believe a contract existed, and fell foul of the law on this point. It has nothing to do with local authorities parking fees etc. She was aware of the problem, but took no advice or got very bad advice Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 30801 Posted April 3, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2017 Or to put it another way: Woman bets twenty four grand that thing she read on the internet is correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nick_bastable Posted April 3, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 3, 2017 living where I do I can only say good I get fed up at the weekends with grockles using a clearly marked private car-park to avoid paying the council fees for public parking Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Apparently it started when she refused to pay a £40 per month charge for private parking, she reasoned that her father lived there, so she was entitled to park. Boy has it cost her!..... at least the law has stopped rampant clamping in car parks, and forces reasonable signage to be used, and we all know of problem car parking you steer clear of, but this was on private land, and she had been warned but chose to ignore any actions by the land owner. Car parking problems started the moment cars were invented. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted April 3, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 3, 2017 Car parking problems started the moment cars were invented. No doubt horses and carts etc, were illegally parked too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Thing is, she could have nipped it in the bud early if she'd appealed via the POPLA appeal system. Wouldn't have cost her a bean either and, if she'd couched her grounds appropriately, she might even have seen off the parking contractors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 I've had a run in with VCS and whilst they might be on the right side of the law in this case they are a bunch of shysters....... Pre estimate of loses on their part was quite simply a work of fiction, which resulted in their charge being dismissed by POPLA. I wouldn't trust them an inch.....but ignore is no longer an option, you can win though..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 All this being said (and the woman is a fool, deserving no sympathy; if she declared herself bankrupt to avoid paying, or is simply unable to pay, and VCS don't get their money either, it would be a fitting denouement to the whole absurd business) there's no doubting that parking can be a serious problem, and falls into that difficult category of laws which a significant proportion of people hold in contempt, oppose on ill-defined or fallacious principles, disregard or generally see no reason to obey. A friend of my wife's works for the local authority Highways Department, and he once told me that it was a good day's work, when they shuffled off the whole contentious business to a private contractor. It didn't solve anything, didn't make the matter any more popular, but at least no one directly involved needed to pretend that the parking wardens acted in the public interest. His point was that although local authorities can, and do define where you can, or can't legally park, they are under no legal obligation to ensure that anyone has anywhere to park, and there are always more cars than spaces. That being so, the local authority could confine itself to operating car parking facilities where they definitely made money, the contractors found additional places (at a price) which the authority wouldn't have, and took the resulting criticism with total equanimity; a certain amount of employment was created, and generally the best likely solution to an unpopular and unsatisfactory situation was produced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted April 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 4, 2017 http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/mountain-of-road-fines-taking-a-toll-on-drivers-as-citylink-takes-the-legal-route-20170214-guccpz.html $30,000 in road toll fines, cancelled by Magistrate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamperman36 Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Oh how I wish I could charge one of my neighbours for parking on the footpath outside my house. Since we moved in we havn't had a car so as a rule our drive has not been in regular use, however when a friend calls over he likes to park on the drive. Sometimes when he calls over he cant even get near because my neighbour has parked 1 of his 3 large vans or 1 of his 4 other vehicles across our drive. When we get a car if this persists I will have no choice to seek council guidence Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 This is in Scotland which use different laws to England and Wales, this judgement may not to apply down South ? . She was stupid in the extreme no matter where she lives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 ... cant even get near because my neighbour has parked 1 of his 3 large vans or 1 of his 4 other vehicles across our drive. When we get a car if this persists I will have no choice to seek council guidence How determined are you? The easy way to fix this is to make it the obstructing vehicle owner's problem. When you get the car, you will be regularly using it to go out between 2 and 6 am. (I am now necessarily using a car for bat watching, on-call work, metal detectoring, called over by your disabled relative needing assistance, think of a reason.) Give prior notice naturally, in order to maintain good relations... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60159 Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Get the police to pay for it - they seem very generous, foolish or both with offenders! See - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-39488370 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted April 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 4, 2017 Oh how I wish I could charge one of my neighbours for parking on the footpath outside my house. Since we moved in we havn't had a car so as a rule our drive has not been in regular use, however when a friend calls over he likes to park on the drive. Sometimes when he calls over he cant even get near because my neighbour has parked 1 of his 3 large vans or 1 of his 4 other vehicles across our drive. When we get a car if this persists I will have no choice to seek council guidence I believe the law states that they cannot block your vehicle in, as this is an offence and they could be fined, towed etc. However, if the drive is empty then there is no rule which states they cannot park across your drive. Or so I believe...... However, getting one of your neighbours a ticket won't make you popular and could lead to much greater problems. As I see it, this is your friend's problem, not yours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted April 4, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 4, 2017 Just up the road from me we have our Town Cenotaph, in front of it is a 'T' bar to stop people parking in front of it. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.1288827,-0.2926453,3a,75y,157.26h,58.39t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sz6RWK1fjGRM41W69-t6sDg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dz6RWK1fjGRM41W69-t6sDg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D56.43895%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656 We now on a nightly basis have a car parking in this specific spot, (it's always empty for obvious reasons) it's a small Merc A class with green 'P' plates and it is becoming the focus of some attention. The driver has been spoken to about not parking there and showing some respect for those townsmen that never came back, the reply has generally been "I'll park where I like". I do wonder when after only a few weeks on the road such a selfish arrogant attitude is displayed, Several of us have now reported him and are actually hoping he gets ticketed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 ....We now on a nightly basis have a car parking in this specific spot, (it's always empty for obvious reasons) it's a small Merc A class with green 'P' plates and it is becoming the focus of some attention. The driver has been spoken to about not parking there and showing some respect for those townsmen that never came back, the reply has generally been "I'll park where I like". Isn't this a bit like that bloke who treated the local mayor's official car space as free parking for his Lamborghini (and probably still does)? In the old days, the car would have been towed away by the police..... Nowadays, a couple of double yellow lines, backed by a council transporter should suffice..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Just up the road from me we have our Town Cenotaph, in front of it is a 'T' bar to stop people parking in front of it. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.1288827,-0.2926453,3a,75y,157.26h,58.39t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sz6RWK1fjGRM41W69-t6sDg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dz6RWK1fjGRM41W69-t6sDg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D56.43895%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656 We now on a nightly basis have a car parking in this specific spot, (it's always empty for obvious reasons) it's a small Merc A class with green 'P' plates and it is becoming the focus of some attention. The driver has been spoken to about not parking there and showing some respect for those townsmen that never came back, the reply has generally been "I'll park where I like". I do wonder when after only a few weeks on the road such a selfish arrogant attitude is displayed, Several of us have now reported him and are actually hoping he gets ticketed! The problem that you have is that the use of a 'T bar' - (what is known in highway engineering terms as an H-marking) - is inappropriate in this context. H-markings indicate where parking *might* be construed by a police officer as an obstruction - nothing more. It is normally used across private vehicular accesses - ('drives') - to discourage obstructive parking, and a police officer would have the power to issue a 'ticket' if the property owner was unable to use their access due to a parked car. (It is not unknown for Highway Authorities to charge householders for the installation of an H-marking, as only the householder benefits). In your instance, there can be no obstruction as there is no vehicular access; therefore no potential for obstruction, and the driver in question is not IMHO, committing an offence. Which police officer is going to go out on a limb and declare that an obstruction is being caused? The sensible and pragmatic thing to have done would have been to extend the pedestrian crossing 'zig-zag' markings to include the frontage of the war memorial. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted April 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 4, 2017 I believe the law states that they cannot block your vehicle in, as this is an offence and they could be fined, towed etc. However, if the drive is empty then there is no rule which states they cannot park across your drive. Or so I believe...... Hi So in theory if I go out someone could block my drive denying me access when I return. How silly. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted April 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 4, 2017 I believe the law states that they cannot block your vehicle in, as this is an offence and they could be fined, towed etc. However, if the drive is empty then there is no rule which states they cannot park across your drive. Or so I believe...... However, getting one of your neighbours a ticket won't make you popular and could lead to much greater problems. As I see it, this is your friend's problem, not yours. I believe driveways cannot be blocked, even by a car owned by the householder. The reason is for if emergency vehicles need to attend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 I believe driveways cannot be blocked, even by a car owned by the householder. The reason is for if emergency vehicles need to attend. Not true, to the best of my knowledge. The only chance of enforcement action is *if* you can get a policeman, (not a traffic warden), to come out and decide that the parked vehicle across your drive is causing an obstruction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Emily Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 I believe driveways cannot be blocked, even by a car owned by the householder. The reason is for if emergency vehicles need to attend. I am told that a homeowner has a right of access, whether or not they actually use it. By blocking your drive, the vehicle owner is denying you your right of access to your property. I had this at a previous property with some numbskull moron who thought they could park where they liked. The County Court sided with me when I took them to court for preventing me from getting to work by blocking in my car. It happened on several occasions, so I took video and issued proceedings for loss of earnings. It cost them quite a bit of money in court fees, mostly because they couldn't be bothered turning up in court so the Judge shafted them for their contempt. It was rather amusing to watch the bailiffs arrive for payment. I do not bow to bullies, regardless of whether they were my neighbour or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted April 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 4, 2017 I am told that a homeowner has a right of access, whether or not they actually use it. By blocking your drive, the vehicle owner is denying you your right of access to your property. I had this at a previous property with some numbskull moron who thought they could park where they liked. The County Court sided with me when I took them to court for preventing me from getting to work by blocking in my car. It happened on several occasions, so I took video and issued proceedings for loss of earnings. It cost them quite a bit of money in court fees, mostly because they couldn't be bothered turning up in court so the Judge shafted them for their contempt. It was rather amusing to watch the bailiffs arrive for payment. I do not bow to bullies, regardless of whether they were my neighbour or not. However, in your case they were blocking you in, not out. If you could demonstrate that it was essential for you to park on your own drive, property etc. (perhaps due to a disability) or the only way to access your house is by car (maybe you live in the middle of the lion's enclosure at longleat....) then I suspect you'll be on to a winner. If not, things may well be less clear.... Mind you, I get pretty p!ssed if someone is parked across my drive when I get home.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamperman36 Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 several years ago I worked for a timber merchants and we worked out of an old warehouse in Leeds. The gate to the yard opened out onto a narrow road and was very tight to get our artic in and out, however this street was used by lots of people as a free place to park for the day while they worked in nearby offices or spent the day in Leeds. One morning I was opening up which we usually did at about 6.30, so before the cars started parking we used to put cones out from the gate to allow room to get the artic out. This particular day we loaded the artic as per normal and as the driver was in the office I went to see how bad the parking was. Just as I parked my forktruck in the gateway a guy pulled up, got out of his car and moved the cones and parked. I called the guy over as he got out of his car and politely asked him to move it to which I got a mouth full of abuse and he walked away. This now left us with a problem, our artic could not get out of the gate without crushing this car. The small garage that shared our yard came up with the answer in the shape of a 5 ton trolley jack, and we jacked the rear of the car up and dragged it up the road past the gate, however it was now in the middle of the road so we rung the police and reported it dumped. 10 mlns later the police turned up and had it removed, OOPS! A couple of weeks later the council came around doing double yellow lines, as they came down the street I managed to get them to leave the lines unfinished so I could extend the lines with yellow road marking paint (we fortunately used road marking paint to mark up orders) which we had plenty of and thus meaning our parking problem was solved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 ..........so I could extend the lines with yellow road marking paint (we fortunately used road marking paint to mark up orders) which we had plenty of and thus meaning our parking problem was solved. Which was in itself illegal - Highways Act 1980. 132. - (1) Unauthorised marks on highways. A person who, without either the consent of the highway authority for the highway in question or an authorisation given by or under an enactment or a reasonable excuse, paints or otherwise inscribes or affixes any picture, letter, sign or other mark upon the surface of a highway or upon any tree, structure or works on or in a highway is guilty of an offence .......... Just saying ............ Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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