Ruffnut Thorston Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) Last night I discovered slip-working, albeit unwanted! The drop arm on the auto coach was found to be dragging on the surface of the magnet so it was opening the jaw. No matter how fast my Pannier hauled it over the magnet, the auto coach slipped its coupling. A useful idea.....? Taken last night on a 6 seconds exposure....Only one magnet is required for a fan of sidings once things are working as they should be. I have found that time spent on ensuring constant magnet height and height of drop legs on couplings has been amply rewarded. WEB Kadees 1.jpg Slip working! Very good... As I am in the process of installing Nem pockets and Kadee couplers, I have been doing some research.... There are some dedicated tools available to assist in installing Kadee couplers and uncouplers. For adjusting couplers and uncouplers the Kadee Multi-purpose Height Gauge is useful...it has gauges for the correct height of the coupler, correct height of the trip pin, and a gauge to help set between the rails uncoupling magnets at the correct height. There are two versions. The metal one #205 will short out the track, as it is made from metal, so should only be used on non-powered track! https://kadee.com/htmbord/page205.htm The insulated version, #206 has the base made from plastic, and so is safe on live two-rail tracks... https://kadee.com/htmbord/page206.htm #205 and #206 Instructions PDF... https://kadee.com/html/205_206ins.pdf Trip pin pliers are a useful tool for adjusting the trip pins.. #237 https://kadee.com/htmbord/page237.htm Instructions PDF https://kadee.com/html/237ins.pdf There is also a jig to help in correct glueing-in place of the between the rails uncouplers...#334 https://kadee.com/htmbord/page334.htm Instructions PDF https://kadee.com/html/334.pdf There are "handouts" (some are very useful!) and instruction downloads on the Kadee website...worth a look... https://kadee.com/htmbord/helpful.htm Edited August 23, 2017 by Sarahagain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted August 23, 2017 Author Share Posted August 23, 2017 As Sarahagain says, the height gauge is essential.... Also essential are the special pliers for for adjusting the dropper arm so that it just clears the uncoupling magnets... 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Holt Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Very good, Larry. Mind you, a Lees WD would have manged those on its own! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted August 23, 2017 Author Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) Very good, Larry. Mind you, a Lees WD would have manged those on its own! Dave. Don't remind me Dave.....Come back in three years time and I shouldn't be surprised to find sound-fitted Greenfield has replaced Carrog... Edited August 23, 2017 by coachmann 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted August 23, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2017 Are you not tempted to run a FY avoiding line along the outside of the shed, in front of the windows ? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 The double headed movie really works, most impressive. Did you have to adjust the speed settings for the two very different locos? When I had HO Southern Pacific trains running I used to "consist" two diesel electrics to run together under DCC, but as they were identical locos they ran at exactly the same speeds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
northolland Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) Allow me to wade in on the shunting / coupler issue. The best experience I have ever had was when I was still modelling German railways in HO. I used Roco, Fleischmann, and Klein stock, which all had NEM pockets, so exchange and standardising on a particular type of coupler was easy. After much experimenting, I settled on the Roco Type 3 coupler, which had pre-uncoupling and a one-sided bracket (Below is a photo of a DB open wagon by Klein Modellbahn with a Roco Type 3 slotted into the NEM pocket. Sorry Coachman: not GWR). Coupling was silky smooth. Also wagons, coaches, and engines were all buffer-to-buffer as the NEM pocket was part of a kind of concertina mechanism that pushed the wagons a little bit apart when going through bends and the buffers would not lock-up. Remote uncoupling required a push up ramp like the Gaugemasters used by Coachman. I had ramps made by Herkat. I placed them in the 'throat' of the points, where the tracks fan into a yard area. Uncoupling was a matter of slowly backing into a spur, pushing the button so that the ramp was lifted when the particular coupler that I wanted to uncouple moved over it without stopping. That coupler was then pre-uncoupled. No shuffle required. When I reached the spot where I wanted to leave the wagon, I just stopped and backed out again, with the wagon staying behind. When I started to model British railways, I quickly found out that the NEM pocket was not common among the likes of Bachmann, Hornby, etc., especially on goods stock, so keeping the Roco Type 3s was out of the question. The only coupling system to which British OO models could be converted relatively easily was the Kadee system. Kadees provide pre-uncoupling. Instead of ramps, you had to use magnets. I imagined that this would be pretty strait-forward. There were a few snags that I could not get rid off. Buffer-to-buffer was rarely achieved. There always remained a gap but I could live with that. More annoyingly was that the magnets not only move the Kadees sideways, they also pushed-pulled the metal wheel sets of the wagons in a way that couplers would uncouple when you pulled a train over a magnet. The last wagon in a string of wagons was almost always left behind when you pulled them over a magnet. This is the slip coach effect Coachman has discovered and mentioned above. The couplers of wagons in the middle of a train mostly had enough strain in them to keep them coupled up. With very light running wagons, I even had that when I spotted them close to a magnet, the magnet would pull the wagon up to the point where the axle was over the middle of the magnet. When I look at Coachman's video where he pushes the coal wagon over the magnet into the spur, I can see the rocking motion that you sometimes get with some wagons when you go very slow. The slack in the Kadees then allow the couplers to disengage without doing the shuffle because the rocking motion is a kind of mini-shuffle. The push/pull of the magnet might also make a contribution. When a wagon's rolling action is a bit more stiff, I expect that Coachman still has to do a proper Kadee shuffle. The advantage of stiff rolling action is that these wagons are less prone to be left behind when pulled over a magnet. I ended up dispensing the magnets and I do my uncoupling now with the little yellow Kadee uncoupling stick, while fondly remembering how well the Roco Type 3s worked. Edited to add photo Edited August 24, 2017 by northolland 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I wonder if the large bass reflex speakers we disembowel Tenders for are necessary today in 4mm scale locos. The 46XX Pannier and 'Grange' have the same Digitrains ZS012A soundfile on Zimo 648 and 645 respectively, but the Pannier has a 'Flame' cube speaker in its own enclosure within the bunker. Yet both sound alike, which says much for the much smaller green and orange sugarcube speakers. Incidentally the video shows the track superelevation to good advantage near the shed exit.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZFYXfO1S1c&feature=youtu.be Hi Larry, What speaker are you using in the tender? I've just installed a SuperSound Hi Base in one of mine and it knocks spots off anything else I've used. Problem now is all the other locos that i thought sounded good, just sound 'tinny' by comparison (with a few exceptions). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) I think Locoman or Charlie Petty supplied it when fitting a decoder to my Hall last year so I don't know its make or reference number. I have placed an order for a couple of 'Flame' cubes to see which best fits in a Churchward 3.500 gallon Tender. Your SuperSound Hi Base speaker sounds interesting. What are its origins and dimensions? Hi Larry. The origin is from Charlie (DC-Kits), along with the Locoman programmed decoder. The size is 31x28x14.8mm so i had to remove some plastic and metal to get it in but they do a slimmer version at 30x25x6.3mm. Here's a link to the speaker fitting in a West Country. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67862-camel-quay-a-north-cornwall-inspired-layout-in-4mm/?p=2825014 and a video clip done in low light so the picture quality is not up to much, but the sound is ok. Ray. Edited August 23, 2017 by tender 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishrailwaymodeller Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) For Kadees to work well you often have to dampen or muffle the free running of some of the axles particularly single wagons or at end of rake: The attachments can be temporary so it is easy to revert to free running for long train runs without shunting. Edited August 24, 2017 by Irishrailwaymodeller 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I wonder if the large bass reflex speakers we disembowel Tenders for are necessary today in 4mm scale locos. The 46XX Pannier and 'Grange' have the same Digitrains ZS012A soundfile on Zimo 648 and 645 respectively, but the Pannier has a 'Flame' cube speaker in its own enclosure within the bunker. Yet both sound alike, which says much for the much smaller green and orange sugarcube speakers. Incidentally the video shows the track superelevation to good advantage near the shed exit.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZFYXfO1S1c&feature=youtu.be Excellent Sound Larry, I haven't had to try a Sugar Cube yet, but I do have a Pannier to do at some point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post coachmann Posted August 23, 2017 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) Some Oxford Models wagons arrived today. I must say the detail is very crisp and the wheels run beautifully with no wobbles. The less said about the weathering the better, but this applies to most RTR wagons. I disguised the worst of it on the two ex Private Owner 7-planks by brushing on my own attempts using PPC matt enamels (Dirty black and Frame dirt + lashings of white spirit). Then the underframes were sprayed with my latest rust colour.... The Oxford goods wagon has been finished to represent a recently outshopped wagon. They are excellent value... I needed a household lamp oil wagon for Carrog and so this Bachmann model was weathered today.... Catching the last of the sun in Carrog Station. Kadee's to follow..... Edited August 23, 2017 by coachmann 27 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishrailwaymodeller Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 No ideas go to waste on this thread! I acted on the sponge idea this afternoon to keep the darn GWR 'Toad' still while the train hooked up to it. The resultant drag also keeps the train of wagons taught and stops them hopping about on the springy Kaydee knuckles, so there are two benefits. WEB Kadees 4.jpg If the NEM pockets are a bit loose, I have used some PVA glue to keep them straight. As with the sponge/plasticard-insulating tape dampers, this can easily be removed without damaging the wagons later if needed with no harm done. Your Carrog in OO is looking great! I am travelling over in September to see the prototype again and also Llanuwchllyn to research my latest N-gauge layout. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post coachmann Posted August 24, 2017 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 24, 2017 (edited) A peek over the fence at Carrog shows a coach has been dumped in the yard with weathered underframe and ends. I resprayed the carmine red ages ago. I can go ahead now and deal with the rest of the coaches.... Edited August 24, 2017 by coachmann 20 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Looking very good Larry, I agree about threading the fencing, it was hard work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 (edited) Thats looking really great Larry, as a frequent visitor to Carrog I admire your attention to detail. Shame about the between rail magnets, did you consider the under track kadee magnets or beside track neodymium bar magnets buried in the ballast? Edited August 24, 2017 by tender Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Larry Following your thread on couplers has made me realize I am going to have a small problem at Penmaenpool. Photographs show that a mineral wagon delivering loco coal was often kept inside the engine shed, while the two locos staying overnight would be half in, half out, smokebox always outside. Now, I do intend to keep the engine shed roof a loose fit, but I think the "hand of god" approach to 3 link coupling is taking things a bit far if the "all powerful" also has to lift off the roof each time the mineral wagon is uncoupled and coupled. The easy solution would be to not store the wagon in the shed. So that is probably going to be my compromise. I do like 3 link / screw link couplers in Gauge O. Your system looks like it's going to work really well, particularly taking into account all the advice that RMWebbers provide. But it is kind of ironic that we strive to achieve free running of our stock and then need to apply a sponge damper! And the latest scenic work looks great, it really does mimic Carrog's setting in the Dee valley very well. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted August 25, 2017 Author Share Posted August 25, 2017 (edited) Larry Following your thread on couplers has made me realize I am going to have a small problem at Penmaenpool. Photographs show that a mineral wagon delivering loco coal was often kept inside the engine shed, while the two locos staying overnight would be half in, half out, smokebox always outside. Now, I do intend to keep the engine shed roof a loose fit, but I think the "hand of god" approach to 3 link coupling is taking things a bit far if the "all powerful" also has to lift off the roof each time the mineral wagon is uncoupled and coupled. The easy solution would be to not store the wagon in the shed. So that is probably going to be my compromise. I do like 3 link / screw link couplers in Gauge O. Your system looks like it's going to work really well, particularly taking into account all the advice that RMWebbers provide. But it is kind of ironic that we strive to achieve free running of our stock and then need to apply a sponge damper! And the latest scenic work looks great, it really does mimic Carrog's setting in the Dee valley very well. Paul You could propel the uncoupled wagon into the shed okay. If you magnetize a set of steel bufferheads before fitting them to the wagon, it should be possible to draw it out again. To unattach the wagon within the shed, hold a powerful magnet against the outside back wall of the shed to hold the wagon there while the loco unattaches. The sponge on the brake van axle actually keeps the couplings taught, which is a good thing and quite prototypical on downgrade loose coupled freights. The goods working are hardly of Pennine proportions and will not tax the locos. Even the Grange locos will haul anything I hang on them now. Thanks for your comments on scenery. I am now looking for N gauge fencing to help create a sense of distance and perspective. Edited August 25, 2017 by coachmann 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 I am now looking for N gauge fencing to help create a sense of distance and perspective. Larry Thank you for your ideas, I will look into the magnet options. As to perspective modelling, I think Bucks Hill is the standard to aim at with different buildings at different scales on the "back scene". The sense of depth is quite amazing particularly when you see the actual depth of the scenic section, and it's Gauge O! Paul 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 25, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 25, 2017 By the time I decided to try Kadee's, it was too late to plant magnets under the track. The two at the end of the platform will become part of a barrow crossing eventually. The magnets don't bother me in the least........Some sort of uncoupler would have been necessary whatever the coupling. Had I built Carrog in 0 gauge, the yard would have been located at the front of the layout to allow uncoupling of 3-links, so there are some compromises I readily accept. You need a foot crossing at the signalbox end for the bobby to pop out to collect the token off an arriving train. Barrow crossing at the other end perhaps as it's handy for the station building? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishrailwaymodeller Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 For Kadees to work well you often have to dampen or muffle the free running of some of the axles particularly single wagons or at end of rake: DSCF1288.JPG The attachments can be temporary so it is easy to revert to free running for long train runs without shunting. The other trick I use to get "heft" into wagons is to add lead or other weights under the "load". This can also be easily removed if you want a long train running without shunting. I have a short video also of shunting on my Shunters Yard OO layout which might be of interest: 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted August 25, 2017 Author Share Posted August 25, 2017 (edited) Replicating the sounds of auto-train fitted GWR locos.... Real..... Model.... Edited August 25, 2017 by coachmann 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted August 25, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 25, 2017 Sounds like a good representation of the real thing to me. Perhaps the volume could be turned down a bit but that may be due to the sound recording level or my earphones or the volume I have my computer set. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 My two GWR tanks have a different sound chip fitted (Southwestern Digital GWR Group 1) but the effects are very similar to yours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 I like the Sound you have there Larry, Like Paul above, I had SWD in my O Gauge Pannier on Trebudoc and the Videos are on my You Tube Channel, Andy Peters Model Railways / Trebudoc, for a comparison, but I do like that Sound, very good indeed my friend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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