Replacement coupling rods Hornby 0-6-0

[Bluebell Model Railway]

Hi All
 I am looking for a replacement coupling rods for the Hornby generic 0-6-0 chassis which goes under various locos, their jinty, Thomas the tank and a few diesel locos too.
 I am looking for some slightly better looking slightly finer etched rods for it, as I have a few of these chassis under resin body shells and I feel it's let down by a few things on the chassis such as the rods.

 I am sure I have seen some somewhere, but cannot remember where, Does anyone here have a suggestion as to where I could find some, Gibson ones appeared to not have enough material around the crankpin, as they are quite large on this chassis.

 

[Steamport Southport]

Mainly Trains used to make them as a direct fit. Unfortunately they've recently closed down. It maybe worth a look on eBay as I've seen some of the other items from the range on there.

 

 

Maybe Perseverance have got something suitable.

 

http://www.perseverancekits.co.uk/

 

http://www.perseverancekits.co.uk/PerseveranceProductsJan2017IncVAT.pdf

 

 

Jason

[Jeff Smith]

Are the Hornby ones single piece or two piece? Have you removed any to see the diameter of the crank pins or screws, whichever they are? They might be smaller diameter than you think.

 

The Gibson ones are good, two piece hinged(for 0-6-0s), and with etched holes that need to be opened up to match your crankpins. You need to measure what you have right now in order to get the correct length ones. I inadvertently ordered some incorrect ones for a Bachmann 57xx and couldn't understand why it kept binding - there was only about a mm in it! Also they require soldering back-to-back to make up the thickness. I should also mention that they were for replacement P4 wheels which had smaller diameter crank pins, however they are not expensive so why not try some.

[Il Grifone]

The Hornby 0-6-0 chassis was originally supposed to be for an LMS 3F and 8' + 8' 6" wheelbase (i.e. 30 + 32 mm), but unfortunately, back in Tri-ang days, someone couldn't measure properly and made it 29mm + 31mm (or presumably some Imperial equivalent). As previously stated, Mainly Trains supplied some etched replacements, which could be made up either as fluted or plain as required, but these are no longer available  . I believe there some rods by Alan Gibson which can be made up to any required dimensions. The Hornby crankpins are very beefy and will probably require replacement for scale coupling rods.

 

Some Hornby diesels use a different chassis with a shorter wheelbase and 1 mm is far beyond the accuracy needed for coupling rods to run smoothly.

[hayfield]

The Hornby 0-6-0 chassis was originally supposed to be for an LMS 3F and 8' + 8' 6" wheelbase (i.e. 30 + 32 mm), but unfortunately, back in Tri-ang days, someone couldn't measure properly and made it 29mm + 31mm (or presumably some Imperial equivalent). As previously stated, Mainly Trains supplied some etched replacements, which could be made up either as fluted or plain as required, but these are no longer available  . I believe there some rods by Alan Gibson which can be made up to any required dimensions. The Hornby crankpins are very beefy and will probably require replacement for scale coupling rods.

 

Some Hornby diesels use a different chassis with a shorter wheelbase and 1 mm is far beyond the accuracy needed for coupling rods to run smoothly.

 

 

The Mainlytrains were very good and designed as a replacement for the Jinty coupling rods (2 versions) they also did 2 versions of the Hornby Dublo R1

 

The Alan Gibson Workshop do a set of 29mm x 31mm ref 4M134 (SR U class) at £5 plus postage They also do a universal set 4M92

 

I would suggest altering the crank pin arrangement, and as it may be difficult to get to the rear of these wheels perhaps the Romford type may be easier to fit

 

Markits who now supply the Romford style wheels do replacement axles to fit the chassis of Triang, Triang Hornby and Hornby locos with scale wheels to suite, this is an expensive option though

 

As for the wheelbase, I guess the difference in wheelbase was owing to the extremely coarse wheels of the Triang Jinty when it was introduced

[davefrk]

Lanarkshire Models do a universal set that can be made up to any wheelbase and the bosses are large enough to be opened out, they can be made rigid or hinged.

Although made for outside cylinder locos with a heavier centre boss this could be filed down a bit to suit an inside cylinder set-up.

 

link - http://www.lanarkshiremodels.com/lanarkshiremodelsandsupplieswebsite_038.htm

 

Or there are the rods for the standard LMS wheelbase 8'0'' x 8'6'' for 0-6-0s which because of it's design can be 'cut and shut' and shortened

to fit if required.

 

Link - http://www.lanarkshiremodels.com/lanarkshiremodelsandsupplieswebsite_030.htm

 

The crankpin holes are etched to 1.4mm and are designed to be reamed out for 1.5mm crankpins but can be opened out further if required.

The nickel silver etch comes with n/s rivets and full instructions.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Dave Franks.

[Bluebell Model Railway]

I had a bad feeling the ones I saw were from Mainly Trains... as I used to buy a fair bit from them... such a shame.

 

The Hornby ones are 2 piece, one has a slight kink to go in front of the one behind.
I did look at the Lanarkshire ones Dave problem is the rivet, I don't have the tools to do the rivet part, got everything else but something to do the motion rivets, they were my first choice so I may go with that option.
I did try the Alan Gibson ones but there just wasn't enough material around the crankpin so they broke unfortunately.

Anyway I shall look in to these leads, so thanks to all the replies



 

[hayfield]

Matt

 

Would it be possiable to change the crank pins, if so Gibson might be an option again

[davefrk]

I did look at the Lanarkshire ones Dave problem is the rivet, I don't have the tools to do the rivet part, got everything else but something to do the motion rivets, they were my first choice so I may go with that option.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Matt, no special tools needed to form the rivet just a small vice and small drills or broaches.

 

Dave Franks.

[Bluebell Model Railway]

Would it be possible to change the crank pins, well I guess it would be if its done the same way as other Hornby models which is basically a brass tapped part pushed in to the rear of the wheel, but this could be difficult as I would need to find 6x brass tapped bushes which would fit those wheels... it would probably be easier putting new wheels on it if I am being honest. Or even building a new chassis, which I don't really want to do as I just don't have the time or money.

Dave, sounds nice and simple... I did place an order late last night so just need to get a vice as I left mine at home when I moved.

 

[Il Grifone]

AFAIK the tapped thread for crank pins in Hornby wheels is the same as Tri-ang, which I believe is 10 B.A.

 

Romford crank pins also use a 10 B.A. thread so should fit, but I stress that I haven't tried it.

 

I have some somewhere, but....

[davefrk]

If one is using the Romford/Markits crankpins, use the ones with the top hat bearings as these come out at the 1.5mm diameter suitable for our etched rods.

 

Dave Franks.

[knitpick]

AFAIK the tapped thread for crank pins in Hornby wheels is the same as Tri-ang, which I believe is 10 B.A.

 

Romford crank pins also use a 10 B.A. thread so should fit, but I stress that I haven't tried it.

 

I have some somewhere, but....

 

For what it's worth, I have rewheeled the odd Tri-Ang and Tri-Ang Hornby (well Tri-Ang reboxed) loco with Romford wheels.  They're a lot better profile and work a lot better with modern Peco Points.  To cut to the chase, I used the old Tri-Ang coupling rods with the Tri-Ang screws directly into the Romford wheels.  But the 0-6-0s have a single screw to the centre driving wheel whereas 0-4-0 and 4-4-0 have two screws per coupling rod.  Unfortunately I don't know if, for the 0-6-0, the outer driving wheels were tapped or not; I only know for certain that the centre (flangeless) wheel is tapped to the same thread as Romfords.

[DCB]

The problem I have with scale rods is they snap. Romford crankpins snap, the retainer comes un soldered one rod comes off the other twists hideously and snaps. my locos have to work hard so I don't use scale rods if I can help it. Crank pins are big items in full size and wear is a big problem with the small Romford type crankpins.

 

I have been re drilling Triang Chassis to different wheelbases with Romford Markits wheels and using various rods, Mainline/ Bachmann are pretty good and can easily be opened out to take Triang 10 BA crank pins. It is absolutely vital that the rod length and wheelbase are absolutely identical down to a couple of thou, otherwise the loco will run like a three legged armadillo.

 

The Later Romford wheels take the  Triang  - Triang/ Hornby etc crank pins, some very early wheels were not drilled at all.    I believe they are 10 BA certainly smaller than 8 BA while the return crank screw on Flying Scotsman etc is I believe 12BA  

 

The centre axle drive 0-6-0 can be re wheeled really easily with Markits oversize axles which are a direct fit in the chassis, why oh why didn't Romford do these 40 years ago!  The crank pins need a spacer, a 10 BA washer under the shoulder of the pin on the pick up side to stop the rod shorting on the insulated tyre and either the holes on the wheels need opening out to take the fixed pins or the rods need the fixed pins pushed out and opened up to take screwed in pins as per the centre axle.   Front axle drive chassis are probably similar. 

[Bluebell Model Railway]

Indeed he is right the Romford crankpins do fit the wheel so ideal,
I have used Romford pins for a while I do go with the deluxe ones as they are a bit more user friendly and if anything goes wrong then I can unscrew and look in to it.
Luckily for me it's not a Triang chassis slightly newer than that, looks like I have a direction to go in now.

Thanks guys.

 

[The Johnster]

For what it's worth, I have rewheeled the odd Tri-Ang and Tri-Ang Hornby (well Tri-Ang reboxed) loco with Romford wheels.  They're a lot better profile and work a lot better with modern Peco Points.  To cut to the chase, I used the old Tri-Ang coupling rods with the Tri-Ang screws directly into the Romford wheels.  But the 0-6-0s have a single screw to the centre driving wheel whereas 0-4-0 and 4-4-0 have two screws per coupling rod.  Unfortunately I don't know if, for the 0-6-0, the outer driving wheels were tapped or not; I only know for certain that the centre (flangeless) wheel is tapped to the same thread as Romfords.

 

IIRC, and if's a long time now since I did anything to a Triang 0-6-0 chassis, the coupling rods were held by a screw crankpin on the centre driving wheel, but the outer 'crankpins' were simply pins fixed solid to the ends of the coupling rods and allowed to 'float' in crankpin holes in the wheels.  Sounds crude, and certainly is by modern rtr standards, but it worked reliably and the old Jinty chassis was a very smooth runner in it's day; I once owned a '748' saddle tank fitted with it that I could run around my 8x4 in about 7 minutes, smoothly with a 6 wagon load of old Triang open axlebox wagons which had enough drag to bring most modern rtr 0-6-0s to a wheelslipping standstill.  A friend's Jinty was just as good.  The outer driving wheels simply had holes that the pins fitted loosely into; they were drilled, of course, but not tapped and the pins were not threaded.

[Il Grifone]

The Tri-ang 0-6-0 chassis is an excellent, robust and reliable unit. Witness the huge quantity still around and working. Its main defects are the crude wheels and the high speed from too low a gear ratio (20 : 1) coupled to a motor with a high operating speed (18,000 r.p.m. off load). On the other hand, it was intended for a toy for which high speed is probably a virtue. It's haulage abilities are limited by the lack of weight in the plastic bodies fitted to it. The coupling rods are indeed secured by screws in the centre wheels and just float in the leading and trailing wheels.

[Bluebell Model Railway]

Thanks for your help and suggestions, I have finished the rods suggested by Dave, certainly would like to know where to get some of those rivets from very simple and straight forward, and certainly would help repair some other models I have. Anyway many  thanks



 

[Kim]

I have been looking around to try and find some replacement rods for the Jinty having used the Mainly Trains ones in the past. Wizard models have taken over the old Mainly Trains produced items and so now sell them. The do them in both parallel and bowed patterns. As a matter of interest, they also do rods for the old B12. These will also fit the Wrenn/Dublo City, Duchess, Castle, A4 and West Country. There is also a set of rods for the Dublo/Wrenn R1

[Phil Traxson]

I have 3 Tri-ang/Hornby chassis, an old jinty under a 0-16.5 Stephen Poole Glyn Valley loco, an even older "Polly" under an Airfix kit built city of Truro, and a modified smokey Joe, 0-16.5 loco.

 

All have been converted to Romford/Markits wheels and axles by the simple expedient of buying standard (1/8"?) Romford axles, in the case of the latter two the extended ones, and Romford brass top hat bushes which fitted into the Hornby axle holes with no modification. The gear on the driven axle was also locked onto one of the bushes by filing a small "V" slot in the bore of the gear and a flat onto the outside of the bush and a small drop of "Loctite"between them, and then the bush secured to the axle using the same locking system. This has worked for both brass and nylon gears, the latter under the heavy white metal Glyn valley loco.

 

I bushed the original coupling rods using a brass BA nut (can't remember what size, it was 30+ years ago) pressed into the crankpin hole then soldered in place, just in case it moved, with the threads reamed out slightly they are a good running fit on the Romford crankpins.     

 

The whole point is that they are still running now with no problems, no special axles, no reaming out of chassis holes and it was a simple and quick modification. I copied the idea from a Model Railway article on mating the Airfix " City of Truro" kit to the "Polly" chassis      

Edited April 17, 2018 by Phil Traxson

[The Johnster]

I have the bones of a Hornby generic 0-6-0 chassis; block, wheels, and coupling rods. If anyone wants the rods, PM me and I will be happy to send you them; if you ever encounter me at a show or somewhere, buy me a coffee or a beer and I will be more than happy with the deal.

 

This is a hangover from a rebuild of very rough Hornby 2721 with the underpinnings of a J83 with the same chassis. AFAIK the current production with the separate coupling rods.  I have managed to cobble a nicely running chassis out of bits of the two locos, and the block, wheels, and rods,  probably a mix of the 2 locos (I have lost track of the various swaps I did). is perfectly free running, but postage of more than the rods is a bit more than I want to be involved with.

[chris p bacon]

I have drawn for etching some replacement rods for another modeller, they are for the 'Jinty' chassis and they're in 2 pieces and they're plain not fluted,  I've drawn them for .4mm Nickel Silver.

If anyone is interested drop me a PM. They'll be a few weeks before they're delivered as they're part of a much larger order of items I want.

[uax6]

More info on Chris p Daves rods:

 

They are bowed, and are designed to sit on Romford coupling rods. They have the connection boss in the right direction (unlike the tri-ang version!), and being nickel silver will have the advantage over the Mainly Trains ones which are in brass.

 

Andy G

Edited April 18, 2018 by uax6

[Kim]

The Mainly Trains rods are etched in nickel silver.

 

More info on Chris p Daves rods:

 

They are bowed, and are designed to sit on Romford coupling rods. They have the connection boss in the right direction (unlike the tri-ang version!), and being nickel silver will have the advantage over the Mainly Trains ones which are in brass.

 

Andy G