RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted May 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 13, 2017 I read not long ago that there are nuclear submarines still in service with their computer systems based on XP. Anybody heard from one recently? There was this MoD scare in 2009. I never heard any real details of which OS's were affected. Do they still have D-notices these days? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7839034.stm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick G Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 Out of the frying pan and into the fire maybe : https://blog.malwarebytes.com/cybercrime/2016/03/first-mac-ransomware-spotted/ Al I wouldn't have thought anyone would be using Torrents on a NHS computer? Plus it has been dealt with and is easy to remove. The attacks I believe were from a email with a attachment which had a executable file in them (.exe) you don't of course have these files on a Mac OSX. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanuts Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 not wanting to bring politics into this and force a lockdown but i note our esteemed secretary of state for health is front and center in the media showing how strong and stable his leadership on this is after he cut the IT support budget for the NHS ? or not ....................................... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted May 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 13, 2017 ...and the NHS needs a larger budget for the free update from Microsoft because? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter220950 Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 I think they may still be running XP, and there's no support, but I may be wrong. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted May 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 13, 2017 I think they may still be running XP, and there's no support, but I may be wrong. Peter https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/13/15635006/microsoft-windows-xp-security-patch-wannacry-ransomware-attack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 I lay a large part of the blame for this at the door of the mainstream computer industry which has made itself fundamentally based on the economic model of continuous upgrades. Unfortunately for the IT industry, software does not "wear out" so they have to resort to strong arm tactics to make people change both hardware and software. That might be true for desktop PCs, but most commercial software products don't work that way. You just pay an annual charge for support for the software licenses irrespective of the version you use. Killing support for older versions seems to be more about the vendor limiting the number of different versions they have to maintain and release patches for. Some products have been around for 25+ years, so it would get very expensive for them to maintain every single past version (and this would be passed on to the customer). just proves that there is no real replacement for proper paperwork to backup the computer. What would happen if the power was shut down. You run off the UPS batteries for a few minutes until the backup generators automatically start up? I worked somewhere that lost the mains feed to the site and ran off generators for several weeks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1 Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 I'm glad I left Dept of Health IT security section 15years ago... This might interest/inform - https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/13/wannacrypt_ransomware_worm/ steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 2mmMark Posted May 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 13, 2017 not wanting to bring politics into this and force a lockdown but i note our esteemed secretary of state for health is front and center in the media showing how strong and stable his leadership on this is after he cut the IT support budget for the NHS ? or not ....................................... Jeremy Hunt was deemed a critical risk to the NHS. He's been switched off and awaits an upgrade to "human with common sense". 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted May 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 13, 2017 My GP and local hospital and cosultants still get letters typed and sent to each other by snail mail. Archaic but unhackable I suppose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 13, 2017 The NHS is said to be the 5th largest employer in the world. Why does it need to buy a flawed operating system from Microsoft - or anywhere else? Why not write its own operating system? Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 The NHS is said to be the 5th largest employer in the world. Why does it need to buy a flawed operating system from Microsoft - or anywhere else? Why not write its own operating system?.... I'd like to see that get past NHS management. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1 Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 The NHS is said to be the 5th largest employer in the world. Why does it need to buy a flawed operating system from Microsoft - or anywhere else? Why not write its own operating system? Martin. I can only assume you don't work in IT... steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 Jeremy Hunt was deemed a critical risk to the NHS. He's been switched off and awaits an upgrade to "human with common sense". Apparently you can reboot him in Safe Mode by sticking a pencil in his ear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 This might interest/inform - https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/13/wannacrypt_ransomware_worm/ steve I assume that Big Brother doesn't have a back door into Linux, or the whole world would know about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 13, 2017 I can only assume you don't work in IT... True. But I have in the past written a file system at the disk sector level, and a full control system for numerical control machines. If employees of Microsoft can write an operating system, I don't see why employees of the NHS couldn't do the same? It would contain a few bugs, but the rest of the world wouldn't know about them. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapford34102 Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 (edited) This country has a lamentable record of managing large public sector IT projects. I assume as they've got many NHS systems back up quite quickly they've a solid back-up regime and used it. Doesn't mitigate the disruption to individuals but avoids giving in to these crooks. Worth reminding everyone they should back up their system regularly or at the very least have copies of what they can't afford to lose. Stu Edited May 13, 2017 by lapford34102 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 Apparently you can reboot him in Safe Mode by sticking a pencil in his ear. Turn him off (And don't bother turning him on again) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 Excuse my ignorance, but why haven't the anti-virus vendors (or any third-party) produced products that plug the known loop-holes in XP? (Not that they warrant their products, in the same way Domestos never killed the worst 1% of harmful germs). There are plenty of reasons why large organisations cannot afford or risk of upgrading to every latest flavour of operating systems, and I'm sure the NHS probably has many critical systems that provide resistance to migration. Before the computer age, the charge against suppliers was "built in obsolescence", which ought to stand against the likes of Microsoft as long as their older systems retain a significant user base. Why should the NHS be forced to pay millions of pounds on upgrades for no commensurate performance enhancement? I remember complaining to one of the High Street Banks that I couldn't access their new and improved on-line banking from a client site as it was incompatible with the out-dated version of Internet Explorer that existed. The bank's technician admitted that they had the same problem internally, as the bank itself was still running the same old version itself, outside the web development teams. Which probably explains why every upgraded version of their on-line banking released was no better than a beta test phase... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted May 14, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 14, 2017 True. But I have in the past written a file system at the disk sector level, and a full control system for numerical control machines. If employees of Microsoft can write an operating system, I don't see why employees of the NHS couldn't do the same? It would contain a few bugs, but the rest of the world wouldn't know about them. Martin. Design by Committee? Perhaps they should also design their own fleet of cars, after all they presumably own enough to make it worthwhile. 5 wheels, 4 at the front & one at the rear! Since glass breaks & cuts people, no windows. Seriously, the NHS (or any other corporation) needs to spend money on what it does best - provide health in their case. If its true that the Minister responsible, didn't provide the funds to upgrade or maintain the existing system, then resignation is the only answer. Along with the funds supplied to do the job properly, by a replacement minister.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 14, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 14, 2017 Design by Committee? Perhaps they should also design their own fleet of cars, after all they presumably own enough to make it worthwhile Well yes -- if it turns out that the ones they can buy contain a flaw which brings their entire operations to a halt. How happy it must be to lie on the operating table knowing that the surgeon is relying on Microsoft Windows to control the operation. p.s. a reliable car needs 6 wheels, not 5. 4 underneath, a spare in the back, and one to steer with. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted May 14, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 14, 2017 Well yes -- if it turns out that the ones they can buy contain a flaw which brings their entire operations to a halt. How happy it must be to lie on the operating table knowing that the surgeon is relying on Microsoft Windows to control the operation. p.s. a reliable car needs 6 wheels, not 5. 4 underneath, a spare in the back, and one to steer with. Martin. But its a known flaw (for which they ought to have been paying for extended customised support) - so no surprise that they got hit. Contingency plans is what they ought to have. Probably the cheapest plan, is to have up to date software/equipment. I do work with a lot of obsolete equipment (phone systems), but since older ones aren't connected to the internet, the risk of hacking is zero. A lot of medical equipment is computer assisted these days, the trick is to make sure its secure - the NHS appeared to have failed here. As for the car comments, fact is designing software or vehicles from scratch, aren't nor should they, be a core service of the NHS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 14, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 14, 2017 fact is designing software or vehicles from scratch, aren't nor should they, be a core service of the NHS. That's not a fact, it's an opinion. Just because something isn't your core business doesn't necessarily mean you can't usefully do other things. The Great Western Railway used to make its own door knobs. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted May 14, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 14, 2017 That's not a fact, it's an opinion. Just because something isn't your core business doesn't necessarily mean you can't usefully do other things. The Great Western Railway used to make its own door knobs. Martin. They also used to make artificial limbs for those affected by their Health and Safety practices................. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastglosmog Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 That's not a fact, it's an opinion. Just because something isn't your core business doesn't necessarily mean you can't usefully do other things. The Great Western Railway used to make its own door knobs. Martin. But did the GWR design its own door knobs from scratch using a different design and principle to other door knobs? As far as I know, GWR door knobs still required the same fixings (screws) as other door knobs and were still vulnerable to the same failings at the screw/wood interface! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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