Did BR have a policy of switching off Diesels at Terminus Stations?

[BigAndy]

Hello all,

              As I am currently building a model of a Prototype terminus station, set in the late 1980's, did BR have any sort of policy regarding pollution, noise issues etc etc with Diesel Loco's at Terminus stations? Just wondering as I can't seem to cast my mind back that far...........If the locos were going to be there a while, then it would seem logical they were shut down. I just wondered from a operationally prototypical angle.

 

thanks in advance

 

Andy

[great central]

Can't speak for the 80s but nowadays it's often policy to switch off the stop block end of HSTs on our services. The other PC is kept running to support on board facilities like the air con. It does make a difference to the fuel consumption, the Meridians when first delivered to MML couldn't be switched off, apparently they were unlikely to start again. With a 50 or so minute turn round at Nottingham and a 9 car set getting through 9 litres per CAR per hour at idle someone wondered why the fuel costs had increased dramatically. EMT had them modified fairly quickly.

[woodenhead]

I seem to remember diesels always running, it was only when stabled that they turned off engines and even then that wasn't a give as in winter especially they kept them running all the time.

[The Johnster]

Back in the 70s, a Canton 08 outstationed at Cardiff Docks developed a fault with it's starter, and was kept running for several years, succumbing eventually to a blocked oil filter IIRC.  

[chris p bacon]

I remember standing at the blocks at KX listening to the Deltics Start up, most locomotives seemed to be shut down then to contain the fog of fumes.

[Karhedron]

In the early 90s, it was common for 1st gen DMUs to be switched off at termini when the driver left the cab. They would often only be started up again just before departure. This was common practice at Reading (my nearest station that featured regular terminating services).

[chrisf]

In the early 90s, it was common for 1st gen DMUs to be switched off at termini when the driver left the cab. They would often only be started up again just before departure. This was common practice at Reading (my nearest station that featured regular terminating services).

 

They were clearly better maintained than the Class 127s which stabled at Bedford, which were kept running for fear of not being able to get them started up again.

 

Chris 

[Davexoc]

50s on the Waterloo - Exeter were shut down as the SR didn't like all those fumes. It did sometimes lead to flat batteries in the winter, arrival - shut down, start up when realeased by return service, move to stabling road and shut down, start up to attach to next service then shut down, hopefully starts again for departure of next service. The problem with the older engines was that they had a starter winding within the generator rather than a starter motor, and had engine driven oil pumps. Uses alot more battery power before you get enough oil pressure to open the fuel rack.

 

We did get one 50 towed back from Stewarts Lane that wouldn't start, infact it wouldn't turn over. Found that two cylinders that fired close to one another had hydraulic locked due to leaking liners and bent both con-rods. As the total movement on the crank was less than 30 degrees there was no chance of getting to the big-end bolts, so the con-rods were gas-axed in the crankcase......

 

Dave

[Mad McCann]

It was certainly a BR policy in the mid-1960s. Back about 15 years ago, in the old derelict SOP behind Carlisle station, I found the remains on an uncovered wall of a poster requesting drivers do just that. It was in a typical early-mid '60s artwork style with a loco and unit in green.

 

D.

[keefer]

I'm sure I've read in either a General or Sectional Appendix that if traction was to be stationary for more than 5 mins then engines were to be shut down - I can't remember offhand whether that was for stations or depots though.

As has been mentioned, this might not apply due to certain factors, particularly cold weather

[Nearholmer]

Things varied a great deal.

 

The BR(S) DEMUs were commonly kept running, and indeed kept running while stabled overnight in winter, much to the annoyance of the residents around Tunbridge Wells West, who used to have about fifteen three-car sets thrugging them to sleep (or perhaps, not sleep).

 

But, as noted above, locos were shut down when at the stops at Kings Cross, so that they could perform hugely impressive starts, shooting two columns of noxiousness up into the roof.

 

K

[Phil Bullock]

Things varied a great deal.

 

The BR(S) DEMUs were commonly kept running, and indeed kept running while stabled overnight in winter, much to the annoyance of the residents around Tunbridge Wells West, who used to have about fifteen three-car sets thrugging them to sleep (or perhaps, not sleep).

 

But, as noted above, locos were shut down when at the stops at Kings Cross, so that they could perform hugely impressive starts, shooting two columns of noxiousness up into the roof.

 

K

 

And impressive they were indeed!

 

Phil

[Chris M]

Could owners of diesel exhibition layouts with sound please take note of this thread and not leave all their locos ticking over all day.

[jjb1970]

I must admit, I've often found it rather ironic to arrive at stations filled with noxious gas as a result of diesel engines idling for extended periods given that rail is promoted as being eco friendly. Made worse by the obvious fact that the engines left running were in woeful condition.

[mjkerr]

In Scotland, this seemed to vary by location (1985 to 1994)

Even when a loco had become detached from rolling stock!

 

In Glasgow Central (platforms) it was rare to see a diesel loco switched off

It only seemed to happen if it is was known the incoming loco would be "trapped" for at least one hour

 

In Edinburgh it never seemed to happen, except when a loco had been detached and was not required for at least 30 minutes

 

In Aberdeen, again, it was very rare to see a switched off loco in the platforms

 

However, in Inverness it was quite common to see a switched off incoming loco

As above, this loco would often be trapped for at least one hour

 

The only exception would be Glasgow Queen Street, where detached locos would use the short (now number 1) platform

Sometimes the locos (including the trapped ones) would be idling, sometimes they would all be switched off!

 

I'm sure I've read in either a General or Sectional Appendix that if traction was to be stationary for more than 5 mins then engines were to be shut down - I can't remember offhand whether that was for stations or depots though.

As has been mentioned, this might not apply due to certain factors, particularly cold weather

That was certainly never applied at any of the Scottish stations listed above

At Glasgow Queen Street / Edinburgh the turnaround time was typically 10 minutes for the Express services

I do remember one evening a Class 47/7 was switched off on arrival at Edinburgh, as the set was meant to swap over for a HST

However, the HST was late running and the Express set was going to be put back into service

Sadly the Class 47/7 would not restart!

[peanuts]

not just terminus stations iirc some of the transpenines when put into the bays at york (8&9) the engine would be shut down whilst on the blocks watched Alycidon do a very impressive start up from the over bridge two huge plumes of exhaust and a lovely rumble echoing back off that roof 

[Swindon 123]

During my time at Kings Cross from 79-84, it was generally the policy to shut down the loco on arrival at The Cross, unless there was another crew waiting to relieve you, then you left it up to them to decide, but that generally only happened if the loco was going to be shunt released. We generally started up locos left on the blocks 5 minutes before departure time of the train in front to get the air up on the loco. HST's were generally shut down as they could be plugged into the shore supply for ETH requirements, and only started up around 10 minutes before departure time. When I worked on DMU's the policy was to shut them down, except when left in bay platforms which had platforms either side, where you left one engine running to keep the air up, as you couldn't start them from on the ground, which was required when a DMU had lost all its air.(To do with the final drives having no air to them). This all changed come wintertime as they would be left running for fear of not starting them again, and to keep the saloon heaters running.

 

Paul J.

[young37215]

Hello all,

              As I am currently building a model of a Prototype terminus station, set in the late 1980's, did BR have any sort of policy regarding pollution, noise issues etc etc with Diesel Loco's at Terminus stations? Just wondering as I can't seem to cast my mind back that far...........If the locos were going to be there a while, then it would seem logical they were shut down. I just wondered from a operationally prototypical angle.

 

thanks in advance

 

Andy

From memory the answer is No, not as a policy as such although I am sure that some were turned off. The environmental lobby had not emerged and more to the point so many first generation diesels were unreliable the approach taken was once they are going, we keep them going!

[D826]

Marylebone in the 70s had a really blue tinge to the air, and it wasn't just the rail blue 115s.

 

The DMUs were left ticking over with volcanic plumes of diesel filling the train shed. If you got from the Bakerloo line escalator to the train without inhaling a good dose of diesel fumes you were doing well. I recall waiting for trains under the station canopy provoked head splitting headaches - probably from lack of oxygen !

 

Must be why Mum always liked to walk right down to the country end outside the canopy where the air was fresher.

 

Regards

 

Matt W

[The Johnster]

Marylebone in the 70s had a really blue tinge to the air, and it wasn't just the rail blue 115s.

 

The DMUs were left ticking over with volcanic plumes of diesel filling the train shed. If you got from the Bakerloo line escalator to the train without inhaling a good dose of diesel fumes you were doing well. I recall waiting for trains under the station canopy provoked head splitting headaches - probably from lack of oxygen !

 

Must be why Mum always liked to walk right down to the country end outside the canopy where the air was fresher.

 

Regards

 

Matt W

 

Sort of at odds with the otherwise 'Palm Court Tearooms' ambience of the place!

[Steamport Southport]

I can't remember any being turned off when in stations whilst watching trains in my youth in the late 1970s and 1980s. They were always left ticking over. Often unaccompanied.

 

This was around the North West and you could always tell when there was a Deltic in.

 

The buses were the same, driver sitting in his cab reading the paper whilst having a fag break. Engine still running. The Pier Head in Liverpool was like a scene from Jack The Ripper with the almost constant fog.

 

 

Jason

[BigAndy]

Blimey! Loads of answers there.

 

Many thanks to all who have taken time to write an answer. Maybe from the perspective of keeping peace and harmony amongst fellow exhibitors, some Locos will be shut down then..................

 

cheers

 

Andy

[br2975]

Could owners of diesel exhibition layouts with sound please take note of this thread and not leave all their locos ticking over all day.

Sadly, with some it's the way to 'show off' the fact that they have sound, and another layout doesn't ?

[The Johnster]

Swansea in the 70s used to shut down locos on trains that were to be run back out with a new loco; if they were to be shunted or propelled into the carriage sidings (Malefant) the locos were kept running,  There was a notice by the St Julian's loop signal in Newport, coming off the Hereford road, that engines were to be shut down while waiting at the signal in order to avoid noise nuisance to local residents, which by it's existence infers that the normality was for engines to be left running unless there were specific instructions to shut them down.

 

I was working the Aberthaw cement trip in about 1971 with a Hymek, a job which entailed setting back into the refuge siding at Rhoose and waiting for some time until the traffic was ready to be shunted out from the Rhoose cement works.  The engine was shut down as, IIRC, a result of requests from the residents of the nearby Torbay Terrace, and could not be restarted for some time when required, in fact it was only luck that we managed to get it going at all and would otherwise have had to ask for a relief loco!  Hymeks were usually pretty reliable, but this one came close to embarrassing us on this particular occasion!

[Branksome71B]

I'm sure I've read in either a General or Sectional Appendix that if traction was to be stationary for more than 5 mins then engines were to be shut down - I can't remember offhand whether that was for stations or depots though.

As has been mentioned, this might not apply due to certain factors, particularly cold weather

 

I suggest that Drivers bringing DMUs in from Swansea to Shrewsbury in the 70s never read those directives. Engines left running unattended from around 11:00 until 15:43 departure weekdays in Platform 6.