Conflicting estate agent advice. Opinions sought.

[Arthur]

The property developers produce glossy brochures and employ highly trained salespeople in order to give people a dream of the unobtainable.  That is why they purchase 3/4 size furniture to put into shoe-box sized rooms, in order to con people into thinking they can get all their furniture into rooms that are hardly big enough to swing a cat.

 

I hope that individual house sellers are not going to be tempted down that dishonest route.

That completely misrepresents what we are talking about.

 

It has been agreed by several posters that many buyers lack vision. The big developers know that. That's why they spend money on furnished show houses.

 

As I said earlier, you can be the hair shirt vendor, presenting your property as it comes, good and bad, and turning off those without vision. They'll just walk away.

 

Or you can put in a bit of effort, maybe spend a bit, and present your property at its best. You'll have a greater level of interest and most likely sell it quicker.

 

If you were selling your car you'd probably clean it inside and out first. No difference.

 

Nobody is suggesting any underhand tactics, just a common sense approach to selling your property.

 

.

[brianusa]

Over here its called 'staging'.  Its the latest real estate con to make believe they need you to spend a lot of money on 'staging' by someone usually associated with the agent.  If the house is attractive enough and with an average market, it will usually sell itself  as those brave enough to sell it themselves, find out.    Don't know what the UK market is like but right now it is hot in this area and there are not enough houses on the market to keep up with the demand.  Its rather like buying a car these days and finding out that they will try and sell you all sorts of useless extras adding a couple of K to the price.

 

Brian.

[Ozexpatriate]

Over here its called 'staging'.  Its the latest real estate con to make believe they need you to spend a lot of money on 'staging' by someone usually associated with the agent. 

Brian I think that 'staging' is recommended because agents know it works for a large subset of buyers who have difficulty visualizing how an unfurnished room can look livable instead of the spare empty space that their eyes will see.

 

It's the same reason that home furnishing suppliers in their marketing collateral will include not just a picture of the chair but a beautifully lit picture of the chair in a room with all the accouterments - rugs, pictures on the wall, lighting fixtures, nick nacks etc.

 

In the OP's case, I think that staging the first floor and telling prospective buyers that the second floor is the same footprint is a plausible compromise and arguably the ideal case. I would however stage the balcony door/window with drapes, a light fixture and perhaps an easy chair taking advantage of the light and the desirability of the upper floor viewpoint.

[Rivercider]

The property developers produce glossy brochures and employ highly trained salespeople in order to give people a dream of the unobtainable.  That is why they purchase 3/4 size furniture to put into shoe-box sized rooms, in order to con people into thinking they can get all their furniture into rooms that are hardly big enough to swing a cat.

 

I hope that individual house sellers are not going to be tempted down that dishonest route.

I think that is precisely why the other bedrooms should be simply dressed,

It is an older property that has room to take full size beds and other furniture, Pete (or the agent) can then point this out to

potential buyers if they have not already realised it,

 

cheers

[Guest]

Pete, have you had a look at that Benjamin foundation on Holt industrial estate.

 

Yep, been there once or twice Russ. They had some decent looking stuff, but I noticed a rather dog-eared flat-pack chipboard veneer wardrobe, probably ex-Argos. They wanted £70 for it which I thought was taking the p... I may take a drive over there and have another look and see if they've amended some of their prices. I am slightly wary of doing any kind of deal that involves my house becoming an overspill warehouse for them.

 

Pete, have you been present for any of the viewings, or have they all been done by the agents?

 

We've done them all, bar one. That's one of the main reasons why we're terminating the agreement. The estate agents are usually "too busy" to accompany the viewings, leaving me to wonder exactly what they're doing to earn their commission. The one time that the agent was present, I got the impression it was the office junior and she knew nothing about the property. Enough really is enough. I don't actually have a problem with estate agent's commission fees just as long as they can show to me they've earned it. I have no desire to give anyone so much as a penny if they appear to be taking me for a ride...

[jjb1970]

At the end of the day you're selling a house, not making a stand over principles. If the house has been on the market for a while and you're still trying to sell then dressing it up is worth considering as the alternatives are to drop the price or continue as is and hope a buyer appears. Impressions do matter and you are competing in a market for business. I think its easy to be dismissive of stuff like this, personally I quite like the idea of an empty house as it is a blank canvass but I do believe that many buyers will be heavily influenced by how well a house is presented.

[Enterprisingwestern]

That completely misrepresents what we are talking about.

 

It has been agreed by several posters that many buyers lack vision. The big developers know that. That's why they spend money on furnished show houses.

 

As I said earlier, you can be the hair shirt vendor, presenting your property as it comes, good and bad, and turning off those without vision. They'll just walk away.

 

Or you can put in a bit of effort, maybe spend a bit, and present your property at its best. You'll have a greater level of interest and most likely sell it quicker.

 

If you were selling your car you'd probably clean it inside and out first. No difference.

 

Nobody is suggesting any underhand tactics, just a common sense approach to selling your property.

 

.

 

 

At the end of the day you're selling a house, not making a stand over principles. If the house has been on the market for a while and you're still trying to sell then dressing it up is worth considering as the alternatives are to drop the price or continue as is and hope a buyer appears. Impressions do matter and you are competing in a market for business. I think its easy to be dismissive of stuff like this, personally I quite like the idea of an empty house as it is a blank canvass but I do believe that many buyers will be heavily influenced by how well a house is presented.

 

 

Different principles apply here I feel, Pete is selling a 6 bedroom house, which, and I stand to be corrected, places it somewhat in the niche market area, he's not selling a 3 bed semi which has competition from many other similar little boxes made of ticky tacky.

There aren't the same number of potential viewers for the property, especially in a rural area which has a somewhat seasonal economy, and the viewers that there are will tend to be the sort who have a bit of vision and nous as to whay they are letting themselves in for, so the the normal house selling rules don't apply.

As I have said before, there are a lot of tyre kickers out there, and a beautiful big Victorian house is well up on the "I Spy houses to go and look at without a chance of buying it" list.

Hang on in there Pete.

One of the problems Pete has got is, that the longer he leaves the sale, due to the arse falling out of the exchange rate thanks the British voting public, the more expensive the house purchase over here will be, he's in a very tricky situation.

 

Mike.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Enterprisingwestern

[jjb1970]

If you want or need a quick sale then it is a question of price. If you're worried about the consequences of not selling soon then losing money on the sale may be better than not selling. As with anything a house is only worth what somebody is willing to pay. The question is- how long has the house been on the market? If we're talking a handful of weeks then it may be nothing to fret about, if it's longer then you do need to ask questions about why it isn't selling. Of course if you don't need to sell then this whole discussion is somewhat moot.

[Neil]

I have an idea that fully furnishing for sale isn't so much about the lack of imagination of the potential buyers but more to do with demonstrating that the house is loved and valued. It becomes a more attractive proposition to buyers, partly because it feels nice walking round and partly because it establishes your credentials as someone who has taken care of your property over the years. Late last year we sold a very niche property, it took a year but this was a quick sale for the area, many less expensive, less niche properties took longer. We made sure it was done up to the nines, here's a link to the estate agents page; when we moved out earlier this year and the rooms were cleared, it looked to be worth far less.  None of the items of furniture in the photos cost more than forty quid, many pieces were in the five to ten pound bracket and came from the local recycling centre or charity shops.

[Guest]

Hang on in there Pete.

One of the problems Pete has got is, that the longer he leaves the sale, due to the arse falling out of the exchange rate thanks the British voting public, the more expensive the house purchase over here will be, he's in a very tricky situation.

 

"Hang on in there". Absolutely. I have no desire to slash the asking price for a quick sale, even though I do, quite frankly, have other things to do with the money. Downsizing to a smaller UK property and purchasing in Spain, to be exact.

I have had this conversation with Mike in person. The truth is that the days of being able to pick up a bank repossession bargain in Spain are long gone. The market there appears to be on the up after many years in tatters. There are still plenty of properties available but the good ones are selling rather than sitting on the market for years. I have completely given up on internet wishlisting as no sooner do I find a contender, it sells. Either that, or closer inspection reveals it to be a classic "money-pit".

I am glad I started this thread as the volume of replies have been very useful. I was adamant that I would not dress the top floor, but I am now at least open to the idea. When the house was listed, there were still a few jobs to be done. There is no stair carpet in the pictures and the top floor had not yet been carpeted, in fact none of the top floor rooms are even pictured. As we have now given the agent notice, it looks likely that the house will be "off the market" for a month to get everything absolutely 100% finished. That *may* include dressing the top floor as suggested. I am keenly aware that putting it onto the market when we did was perhaps a bit premature, and might have done us no favours. There was little left to do, but as has been pointed out in this thread, perhaps some folk have absolutely no vision.

I think Mike's absolutely right - with 6 bedrooms, it is a niche property and could well serve as a B&B. Taken as a national average, how many house-buyers are looking for that potential? Some, not many, I would guess. Yes, Sheringham is a pretty little seaside town. Dr Beeching's axe still left us with a connection to Norwich and onto London, so I don't consider it an isolated location. The traditional old-fashioned high street is  minutes away, as is the North Norfolk railway which does bring in the visitors. Seasonal, though. This house will be the ideal home for someone, but of course, 2 and 3 bed new-build houses with postage stamp back gardens and link-detached garages are always going to be the best-seller.

I have been very careful not to name the estate agent, but if anyone's interested, the Right Move link is below. This will become a 404 Not Found when the house is removed from sale, prior to being relisted with a different agent. Opinions welcome.

 

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-65141378.html

[Stubby47]

Photograph the empty rooms, then photoshop in various items of furniture.

 

So a room could be kids room, a tv lounge, an adult's room or an office.

[Neil]

..... Opinions welcome.

 

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-65141378.html

 

Looks to be a lovely, cared for home. If I was being picky I'd point to the stairs looking like a work in progress (photo 2) and suggest that some cheap neutral carpet for them might be a good investment.  The green bedroom looks brilliant and classy, the purple one a bit less so. If you didn't want to get the paint and brushes out then a big mirror or two, or some larger pictures would cut the expanse of purple and bring a bit of interest to the chimney breast and the wall between window and TV. Good luck with the sale.

[Guest]

Looks to be a lovely, cared for home. If I was being picky I'd point to the stairs looking like a work in progress (photo 2) and suggest that some cheap neutral carpet for them might be a good investment.  The green bedroom looks brilliant and classy, the purple one a bit less so. If you didn't want to get the paint and brushes out then a big mirror or two, or some larger pictures would cut the expanse of purple and bring a bit of interest to the chimney breast and the wall between window and TV. Good luck with the sale.

 

Thanks Neil. All good, fair points. The entire staircase has now been refurbished and stair carpet going down soon, neutral of course. We could not risk laying the carpet whilst there was still work to be done on the staircase and painting to be finished off. The lilac room is daughter's bedroom (you'd never guess) and I'd agree, too cluttered. It was also the first room to be decorated after renovation, so is perhaps due a makeover. We have rented a self-storage unit in Cromer and the house is now less cluttered although to be fair, we're a family of four and cannot hide all of our stuff away, neither would we want to. Perhaps we did rush it onto the market and if so, lesson learned. It's not a bad looking house (I've seen far worse) but attention to detail needs to be addressed. The concrete mixer visible through the window of one of the reception rooms still annoys me! Hopefully, the new listing with the new agent will generate results. To be fair to the existing agent, we have had a decent number of viewings, even a couple of second viewings. There's just something preventing an offer. Whether that "something" is price, location, little details still needing to be finished, I do not know.

[cromptonnut]

It's also worth comparing to see what else is available around your price bracket in your area.  I did a search with Zoopla.

 

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/property/sheringham/?price_max=425000&price_min=350000&q=Sheringham%2C%20Norfolk&results_sort=newest_listings&search_source=home

 

As pointed out, 6 bedrooms is a niche market but there isn't much else to compare there, one with nice gardens, a couple of "sumptuous" retirement flats, and a 1920's detatched.

 

There's not a lot of competition for 6 bedroom plus properties either.

 

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/property/sheringham/?beds_min=6&q=Sheringham%2C%20Norfolk&radius=5&results_sort=newest_listings&search_source=refine

[Guest]

It's also worth comparing to see what else is available around your price bracket in your area.  I did a search with Zoopla.

 

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/property/sheringham/?price_max=425000&price_min=350000&q=Sheringham%2C%20Norfolk&results_sort=newest_listings&search_source=home

 

As pointed out, 6 bedrooms is a niche market but there isn't much else to compare there, one with nice gardens, a couple of "sumptuous" retirement flats, and a 1920's detatched.

 

There's not a lot of competition for 6 bedroom plus properties either.

 

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/property/sheringham/?beds_min=6&q=Sheringham%2C%20Norfolk&radius=5&results_sort=newest_listings&search_source=refine

 

Thanks 'nut. The 3 bed 1 bath 1950s bungalow for £350k convinces me that we're not being greedy on price! Ouch.

[hayfield]

Pete

 

We sold our previous house in March 2016, we were lucky as the demand for the style of house far outweighed the supply. We spent the previous 2 years sprucing up the property which included converting the garage into a model railway room and returning the 3rd bedroom back to a bedroom with bed and bedroom furniture. We also spent as much time as we could gleaning as much information as we could from various TV shows. The main conclusion was to redecorate and de-clutter each room, have each room dressed and looking as big as possible

 

I then interviewed 6 local estate agents, I short listed 3 all of whom were small local companies, negotiated a highly competitive fixed price. Had a house viewing day the first Saturday in Feb moved last Tuesday in March. Obtained £30k more that the next door house which was sold (sale agreed) 2 months earlier whilst both being much the same

 

The house we bought was from a diciest's estate, it had been re-painted internally, had new carpets fitted but furniture was retained. This gave us some idea of what could go where etc

 

The conclusion on both buying and selling, freshly decorate with neutral colours, de-clutter but furnish to show what is possible, choose the agent carefully but take their advice in presentation

 

As it happens the house we sold has devalued owing to market conditions, the area we now live in is still increasing (though we have no plans to sell)

 

Good luck

Edited June 15, 2017 by hayfield

[chris p bacon]

Looks to be a lovely, cared for home. 

 

Unbelievable what you can fit in a caravan nowadays.........

 

where's the dag?

[Guest]

Unbelievable what you can fit in a caravan nowadays.........

 

where's the dag?

 

In the Transit van. Don't worry, I left the window open...

[chris p bacon]

Everyone gripes about estate agents fees but if they do the job well I can't see the issue.

 

Taking 2 at random we've done. 

 

2 Bed house sold with a board out front -  Countless time wasters just wanting a look around and those that might be interested wanting it at 10% less than asking price as "You've got no fees to pay" sold eventually but a PITA with the purchasers calling every other day with stupid questions, I kept a log of the time taken to do viewings and then progress the sale and it was 27 hours!

2 Bed bungalow sold through agent- Looking in the book there was something like 30+ viewings with 9 offers. I got asking price and only met the buyers once before exchange as agent dealt with all the questions. Well worth the money (1% but if I sold a second with them in 12 months it would be .8%) 

 

As I'm selling new houses they can't be dressed as they're always sold before completion. I had forgotten that if I put furniture in them my contractor insurance is void and I have to re-insure them as an empty property which is mega expensive.

Edited June 15, 2017 by chris p bacon

[petethemole]

Unbelievable what you can fit in a caravan nowadays.........

 

where's the dag?

 

Not allowed inside the caravan/home (unclean).

[chris p bacon]

Not allowed inside the caravan/home (unclean).

 

But it doesn't look that unclean in the photo's.    

[beast66606]

Photograph the empty rooms, then photoshop in various items of furniture.

 

So a room could be kids room, a tv lounge, an adult's room or an office.

 

I was going to suggest a similar but old fashioned way - move furniture into the rooms (from other rooms)  and photograph them as dressed then explain to any would be buyers that you've started to sell off unwanted stuff but here's some pics of what the room could look like.

 

I sold my house last year, completely empty - I even paid a clearance place to get rid of all the old tat I didn't want so there was nothing in the house at all. Sold within weeks.

[jonny777]

That completely misrepresents what we are talking about.

 

It has been agreed by several posters that many buyers lack vision. The big developers know that. That's why they spend money on furnished show houses.

 

As I said earlier, you can be the hair shirt vendor, presenting your property as it comes, good and bad, and turning off those without vision. They'll just walk away.

 

Or you can put in a bit of effort, maybe spend a bit, and present your property at its best. You'll have a greater level of interest and most likely sell it quicker.

 

If you were selling your car you'd probably clean it inside and out first. No difference.

 

Nobody is suggesting any underhand tactics, just a common sense approach to selling your property.

 

.

 

 

It is somewhat ironic to accuse me of misrepresentation of the subject, and then attempt an analogy of cleaning out a car before selling it.

 

I was not saying that the house should not be cleaned before selling it, but to continue your car analogy - would you really put leather seat covers on the front seats and a host of other added extras in the car just to sell it, only to remove them before handing over the vehicle after purchase?

 

You mention common sense, but that to me means that most purchasers do not just choose random homes to view; but have a strict price and size requisite prior to even beginning to choose a new property. I have bought and sold my home on a number of occasions, and my daughter is currently in the process of selling hers; but at no time have I ever been persuaded to buy anywhere because of the vendors' fixtures and fittings, however homely, smart or expensive they may be.

 

I know the furniture I have and it is much easier to imagine my stuff in another property if the rooms are empty or with minimalist furnishings.

 

Maybe I am in a minority of one, but when I look at properties I take notice of the room sizes, signs of damp, masonry cracks, how much work I might have to do, etc., etc; and I completely ignore the current owners' furnishings because they are not mine. And I get really suspicious if there is a smell of baking bread/cakes coming from the kitchen and a cat curled up on a chair by a log fire in the living room, because I begin to wonder 'what are they trying to hide?'

Edited June 15, 2017 by jonny777

[kevinlms]

Exactly.

 

Our neighbours spent thousands tarting up their house before they sold it, and a week after the new folk moved in they ripped the whole lot out. The old neighbours popped in not long after, and were heartbroken to see all their hard work in a skip; the poor woman was in tears. They refuse to come back again, because it was so upsetting.

 

Who gave them that advice to spend a lot of money and effort? Its just ridiculous. By all means make the house clean & tidy and do work for something that is desperately wrong or falling apart.

 

But to fix it up in that sort of way, that's something they should have done years ago and enjoyed their efforts.

Edited June 15, 2017 by kevinlms

[Legend]

Leave them empty. People who are coming in will have own furnishings and own idea of how to decorate even if recently decorated.