Drug Cheats

[Gilbert]

How nice to see Jessica Ennis-Hill have her 2011 Gold Medal moment in front of a home crowd.

[grandadbob]

Totally agree. It's a pity that a twice banned "athlete" was allowed to compete last night. 

[Gilbert]

Totally agree. It's a pity that a twice banned "athlete" was allowed to compete last night. 

I won't go into massive detail on this  - simply to say the benefits of illegal drugs to training effect massively outweigh anything that shows up in competition...two strikes = a life ban for me.

[Southernman46]

Particularly as said athlete comes across as having the personality of a cardboard box too and as for that annoying "squeaky" voice

[EddieB]

If a banker was convicted of fraud, they would not be welcomed back in the City...

[chris p bacon]

I find it funny that nobody boo'd Gatlin in 2012 but they do now. Nothing has changed in the interim.

 

My thoughts are that once caught and confirmed, you're banned for life.

[Zomboid]

Those are the rules. Almost everyone seems to be unimpressed by them, but it seems impossible to change them.

I'm not sure why the courts have to be involved with this kind of thing. Surely the IAAF could be considered a private member's club, with its own rules on membership.

The same issue as why they GB Olympic team was forced to take Dwain Chambers a few years back. Maybe he was the quickest, but you don't see the courts forcing the ECB to pick Kevin Petersen, sports teams should be free to have their own selection criteria if they want.

(I guess it can't really be that simple; a lot of the NFL teams used to have a "whites only" approach to team selection, which is clearly not acceptable, and you wouldn't want to open the door to that kind of thing).

[Horsetan]

If a banker was convicted of fraud, they would not be welcomed back in the City...

.... because the other fraudsters there wouldn't want the return of a rival?

[DOCJACOB]

On another side point any work on how long the +ve effects of drug doping last after becoming clean?

[Bernard Lamb]

Those are the rules. Almost everyone seems to be unimpressed by them, but it seems impossible to change them.

I'm not sure why the courts have to be involved with this kind of thing. Surely the IAAF could be considered a private member's club, with its own rules on membership.

The same issue as why they GB Olympic team was forced to take Dwain Chambers a few years back. Maybe he was the quickest, but you don't see the courts forcing the ECB to pick Kevin Petersen, sports teams should be free to have their own selection criteria if they want.

 

Part of the problem is that Human Rights kick in. As the athletes are professionals they cannot be deprived of the right to earn a living.

If the national federations set out rules that make these cheats eligible then they have to select them. In cricket the rules leave the selectors a wider choice. If the rules say that you win a trial then you are automatically selected then the sports controlling bodies are stuffed. They say they want to tighten the rules but as Coe said yesterday the have not been able to do so. I wonder just how hard they have tried and how much behind the scenes pressure has been applied by rather wealthy interested parties.

I feel some sympathy for Gatlin as there are far worse people about. 

The authorities are failing to chase and deal with the backroom people who are behind the cheating.

Only Rugby, both codes, seems to understand the real problem and has been chasing the suppliers.

Back On topic. Well done Jess. It was a nice touch to get the medal in London even if it was several years too late.

Bernard

[Gilbert]

On another side point any work on how long the +ve effects of drug doping last after becoming clean?

I don't think the benefits to physiology etc disappear when the drug is gone  - the improvements gained through adaptation from harder training are potentially there for keeps...I think some "endurance" sports would be happy to see life time bans for this reason

Edited August 7, 2017 by Gilbert

[Gilbert]

In fact a US commentator on the radio this morning was saying that Gatlin's performance profile was "unusual"  - he peaked very "late" for a sprinter...apparently

[DDolfelin]

I know very little about this subject but it's been around for such a long time that one might think action should be worldwide and urgent.

How that would be accomplished I've no idea.

[Horsetan]

On another side point any work on how long the +ve effects of drug doping last after becoming clean?

 

You might want to ask some of the former East German athletes about the long-term effects, few of which were positive.

[DOCJACOB]

It was a thought as a GP and ex triathlete. To me doping is doping and should attach to a lifelong/substantial ban.

 

Yes you will argue the skier and nasal spray formulation was not exactly doping just careless but all athletes know the rules and the duties/responsibilities.

 

The benefits length always interested me, especially Gilberts comments.

 

Also the availability of stuff never fails to amaze, a patient once arrived with  alleged vials of Nandrolone and asked if it would help is current injury.

[PhilJ W]

One of the first people to congratulate Gatlin was Usane Bolt so I assume that he had no problem with Gatlin taking part in the race.

[jjb1970]

I think there is a lot of hypocrisy about doping in sport. I think it is a cancer in sport, but I also despise the attitude of coaches, governing bodies, sponsors and fans who are wilfully ignorant about doping who then climb on high horses when somebody fails a test. I don’t know much about athletics, but I used to enjoy following road cycling (emphasis on “used to”) and for just about all the time I followed that sport it was obvious that doping was endemic to the sport and that the only objection of the governing body, sponsors and most riders was to the impact on revenues when a rider got caught, there was no real ethical objection to doping. Yet teams who were running doping programs, riders who were on the sauce themselves and sponsors wanting to look squeaky clean while demanding results without looking too hard at how they were achieved would close ranks to throw riders who were caught out under the bus. At least some of them, other riders would serve a suspension or ban and come back like nothing had happened, for example riders like Valverde and Contador. And still be feted by fans. Or the infamous Armstrong saga, Michael Walsh was a pariah when he was trying to expose Armstrong for what he was, yet after the feds moved in journalists who had done Armstrong’s dirty work by attacking Walsh were lining up to hammer nails into Armstrong (btw the reason I have a soft spot for the Times despite being owned by Murdoch is because they had the balls to stand by Walsh and support him even when it cost them a lot to do so). When WADA try to take a tough stance (as under Dick Pound’s tenure) many sportspeople and spectators blame WADA for being the problem rather than dopers. I stopped following cycling many years ago as a result.

Doping had a bizarre effect on endurance sports in the EPO era as athletes with naturally high haematocrit levels who have a biological edge were seen as having much less potential than those with low haematocrit but who could be pumped up on EPO and stay within the 50% limit (which was not actually a doping offence at the time, it was done to protect rider health….). Looking at mortality rates for pro-cyclists it is hard not to conclude that doping has pretty dire longer term impacts (yes, yes, I know statistical patterns and causality are not the same).

In terms of Gatlin, it was not the best result, but the rules are what they are. If it’s not what people want to be associated with them my advice is to switch off.

[JohnR]

I won't go into massive detail on this  - simply to say the benefits of illegal drugs to training effect massively outweigh anything that shows up in competition...two strikes = a life ban for me.

 

Indeed. I saw a graph which plotted athletes age against their 100m timing. Every athlete - even Usain Bolt peaked around 23-25, and thereafter showed a gradual decline in timings. Except Gatlin. He's the oldest sprinter to ever make the US Olympic team. He may well be clean now, but the effects of past doping is still there. 

[njee20]

Or the infamous Armstrong saga, Michael Walsh was a pariah when he was trying to expose Armstrong for what he was, yet after the feds moved in journalists who had done Armstrong’s dirty work by attacking Walsh were lining up to hammer nails into Armstrong

 

David Walsh? I'll be honest I only half read the rest it, paragraphs good sir, paragraphs! Doping isn't actually any more endemic in cycling than other sports, it's just extremely open about it, arguably to its detriment. Let's not forget Dr Fuentes, who was suppling messrs Armstrong, Pantani and Virenque also counted Rafael Nadal and many other known athletes among his clients! The Spanish authorities saw fit to destroy the blood samples though.

 

He's the oldest sprinter to ever make the US Olympic team. He may well be clean now, but the effects of past doping is still there. 

 

I'll wager the effects of present doping played a significant part too!

[jjb1970]

David Walsh? I'll be honest I only half read the rest it, paragraphs good sir, paragraphs! Doping isn't actually any more endemic in cycling than other sports, it's just extremely open about it, arguably to its detriment. Let's not forget Dr Fuentes, who was suppling messrs Armstrong, Pantani and Virenque also counted Rafael Nadal and many other known athletes among his clients! The Spanish authorities saw fit to destroy the blood samples though.

 

I'll wager the effects of present doping played a significant part too!

Well spotted on Walsh, confusing him with another Walsh, sorry.

 

On cycling, since it is the only endurance sport I've ever been that interested in it is the only one I can really comment on with respect to doping, but for all the years I followed cycling doping was indeed endemic.

[njee20]

I didn't say it wasn't, I said it was no more endemic than in other sports. Bolt is about the only Jamaican athelete on the track team not to have failed a drugs test yet. There's so much money in sport that people will cheat.

 

I'd like to hope cycling is cleaner now, certainly the yo-yo-ing performance we see among the top riders, combined with a significant slowing of average speeds in top races suggests as much. Racing is far more negative too, which is a shame in some ways, gone are the days of mental attacks from 50 miles and 3 mountains out.

 

Still think that any drugs cheat should have a lifetime ban for the second offence. That Gatlin negotiated a reduction in the severity of his ban in exchange for co-operation beggars belief, IMO he exhausted that option first time out. That shows no signs of contrition whatsoever. He's also not remotely repentant and doesn't understand (or at least pretends not to) why people consider him a villain. Athletics would be better off without him.

Edited August 7, 2017 by njee20

[Southernman46]

One of the first people to congratulate Gatlin was Usane Bolt so I assume that he had no problem with Gatlin taking part in the race.

 

I bet he did but his reaction and attitude just says so much about Bolt and that's why he receives such universal respect ..............

Edited August 9, 2017 by Southernman46

[jjb1970]

I think a lot is down to fans, while fans aren't that bothered about dope in sport the sponsors won't be that bothered and while sponsors keep the money rolling in and media deals are lucrative which means governing bodies will be happy I think things will just go on as they are. If fans walk away then the events are far less valuable to sponsors and the media, money leaves the sport and then governing bodies will take it seriously. One of the problems cycling had was that Hein Verbruggen and that odious Pat McQuaid didn't give a toss about doping as the money kept rolling in. They were far more motivated to attack WADA and guys like David Walsh than to do anything against the dope problem. And in Verbruggen's case there is some evidence he was actually complicit in the dope culture.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I'd like it all cleaned up, by the simplest method: legalisation. (Same applies to street narcotics.) That way the drugs are regulated, traceably prepared and thus as safe as possible, and properly administered with an under-age restriction; oh, and taxed to pay for all the immediate regulation and consequences. They would all have the most direct health warnings on the packet: "This will probably hasten your death, with awful side effects for years beforehand. Possibly even worse might happen. Think very carefully before you take this awful stuff.". No big deal, we do it for our legal narcotic and addictive substances with all the well known problems these cause.

 

Then you run the Olympics for amateurs, one entry per lifetime at not significantly older than the age restriction, with a stringent drug test regime: any doubt, out.

 

Pro sport is open; the only offence not declaring all the shit you are using. That way we perhaps get to find out which is best from Runfastalon, Maxpowerdrine or Bursteroid. Will we see the 100m run in under 5 seconds, and do you have to survive until the awards ceremony and get on the podium unassisted to receive Drugold, Substansilver, or Dopobronze to be officially recorded as medallists?

[chris p bacon]

Do Liquorice allsorts count ? I seem to be addicted to them.