Liverpool central station

[Roger Sunderland]

Hi all

 

Can anybody help me with a track layout plan for Liverpool Central station C1959/60 (that's the high level one ex CLC) even a drawing would help.

[Steamport Southport]

There was an article including ISTR trackplans in one of the early LMS Journals.

 

 

 

Jason

[APOLLO]

Lots of info diagrams & photos on this post.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67055-liverpool-central-signal-box/

 

Brit15

Edited September 3, 2017 by APOLLO

[Roger Sunderland]

Lots of info diagrams & photos on this post.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67055-liverpool-central-signal-box/

 

Brit15

Thanks for this Apollo, very helpful. I wonder do any of the contributors have further info?. If you have please get in touch. I love cramped city terminuses, and this fits the bill perfectly. Only exploring the possibilities at this stage for a possible layout. With the space I have available even this would need some rationalisation but you neve know.

[Gilbert]

I'm sure these guys had an article in one of their "On Shed" journals - all downloadable.

 

http://www.8dassociation.btck.co.uk/

Edited September 4, 2017 by Gilbert

[Gilbert]

This book has 6 pages on Central Station

 

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/first-edition/LIVERPOOL-MANCHESTER-Part-2-Cheshire-Lines/22316289808/bd

[beast66606]

Thanks for this Apollo, very helpful. I wonder do any of the contributors have further info?. If you have please get in touch. I love cramped city terminuses, and this fits the bill perfectly. Only exploring the possibilities at this stage for a possible layout. With the space I have available even this would need some rationalisation but you neve know.

 

Not sure what further info you need at the moment Roger ? - Flying signalman has provided a signalling = track plan

[Roger Sunderland]

Not sure what further info you need at the moment Roger ? - Flying signalman has provided a signalling = track plan

The signalling plan is great but I'd love to have some idea of platform lengths/widths and general overall area of the station. Also loco hauled trains around the early 60's. I'm aware that the Manchester services were early converts to DMUs. Information seems hard to come by, this was definitely the Cinderella of the Liverpool termini. I have David Bryant and John Bannons book "steam on Merseyside and beyond" but there is precious little mention of Central.

[beast66606]

The signalling plan is great but I'd love to have some idea of platform lengths/widths and general overall area of the station. Also loco hauled trains around the early 60's. I'm aware that the Manchester services were early converts to DMUs. Information seems hard to come by, this was definitely the Cinderella of the Liverpool termini. I have David Bryant and John Bannons book "steam on Merseyside and beyond" but there is precious little mention of Central.

 

OS Maps can help you with sizes - for example http://maps.nls.uk/view/126523142

[Free At Last]

This book has 6 pages on Central Station

 

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/first-edition/LIVERPOOL-MANCHESTER-Part-2-Cheshire-Lines/22316289808/bd

Thanks, just purchased one. £8.03.

[Gilbert]

Thanks, just purchased one. £8.03.

 

All 3 in the series are excellent books

[Steamport Southport]

I haven't been there for quite a while, but if you went upstairs in the Egg Cafe on Newington and looked out of the window, then you used to be able to see the remains including where the track and platforms were. Most of it is obscured now looking at Google Maps.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Michael Edge]

I've researched this for many years, in fact Herculaneum Dock was originally a proposed extension to Central (which was never built).  

This is a scan of the trackplan I drew up in Turbocad. The basic plan is shortened to suit my available space, the true extent is shown at the left. On the face of it this is an ideal model railway with the three tracks disappearing immediately into the tunnel but the overall roof extends out to the footbridge near the platform ends, in other words covering almost all the station. Not only that but most of it is down in a deep cutting and I came to the reluctant conclusion that it was unexhibitable. 

Operationally Central was very interesting, only two platform faces could take the longer trains and consequently most stock was shunted out into the tunnel to release the loco. This was on the centre road which ran all the way to Brunswick but was not normally used for running. Usually the station pilot (N5 in steam days, later a 350hp diesel) was found up here. The centre roads between the other platforms were normally used as carriage sidings, the turntable was enlarged to 70ft by BR. Liverpool Central Low Level (Mersey Railway) was under the wide platform, it's still there with the track switchbacking up into the CLC tunnel on its way to Hunts Cross

[Roger Sunderland]

I've researched this for many years, in fact Herculaneum Dock was originally a proposed extension to Central (which was never built).  

Liverpool Central.png

This is a scan of the trackplan I drew up in Turbocad. The basic plan is shortened to suit my available space, the true extent is shown at the left. On the face of it this is an ideal model railway with the three tracks disappearing immediately into the tunnel but the overall roof extends out to the footbridge near the platform ends, in other words covering almost all the station. Not only that but most of it is down in a deep cutting and I came to the reluctant conclusion that it was unexhibitable. 

Operationally Central was very interesting, only two platform faces could take the longer trains and consequently most stock was shunted out into the tunnel to release the loco. This was on the centre road which ran all the way to Brunswick but was not normally used for running. Usually the station pilot (N5 in steam days, later a 350hp diesel) was found up here. The centre roads between the other platforms were normally used as carriage sidings, the turntable was enlarged to 70ft by BR. Liverpool Central Low Level (Mersey Railway) was under the wide platform, it's still there with the track switchbacking up into the CLC tunnel on its way to Hunts Cross

Michael you are a star, just what I was looking for. Sadly you are right though, difficult to model accurately because of the overall roof and the deep cutting. I initially thought of cutting back the roof and only modelling one side of the cutting but you would loose a lot. Ideal use though for the N5 I purchased from you at Railex last May. Maybe back to the drawing board. Still looking for a suitable Merseyside prototype to fit 17'x11'.

[Siberian Snooper]

Michael you are a star, just what I was looking for. Sadly you are right though, difficult to model accurately because of the overall roof and the deep cutting. I initially thought of cutting back the roof and only modelling one side of the cutting but you would loose a lot. Ideal use though for the N5 I purchased from you at Railex last May. Maybe back to the drawing board. Still looking for a suitable Merseyside prototype to fit 17'x11'.

Have a look at the Lime Street thread, sorry I can't add a link. The overall roof has been left unglazed so that you can see what is going on.

[Michael Edge]

Michael you are a star, just what I was looking for. Sadly you are right though, difficult to model accurately because of the overall roof and the deep cutting. I initially thought of cutting back the roof and only modelling one side of the cutting but you would loose a lot. Ideal use though for the N5 I purchased from you at Railex last May. Maybe back to the drawing board. Still looking for a suitable Merseyside prototype to fit 17'x11'.

 

Best idea i came up with was to open it up at the Bold Street side and have a sort of cross section view including the Mersey Railway platform - and our 503s as well of course.

[Siberian Snooper]

A link to Lime Street, now I'm on the Laptop

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/33141-lime-street-station/

[Vespa]

Blimey, I had forgotten all about Liverpool Central. I used to get the underground there twice a week to go to Hoylake or as the announcer used to say "Hoilcake". I never used the ground level section as my connecting station was Lime Street to travel the rest of the journey from/to home.

[Jim Martin]

I haven't been there for quite a while, but if you went upstairs in the Egg Cafe on Newington and looked out of the window, then you used to be able to see the remains including where the track and platforms were. Most of it is obscured now looking at Google Maps.

 

 

Jason

A multi-storey car park has been built in the hole in the ground where the station throat used to be. Access is restricted, as multi-storeys go, to people who are actually parking there: in fact that's their usp. If you do park in there, though, you get an excellent view of the buidings that back onto the site. I have some photos but I can't post them right now: I'll put a couple up tonight.

 

Jim

[Jim Martin]

These were taken from the Secure Parking (that's what it's called), looking directly away from the station. The car park is immediately to the right of the footbridge shown in Michael Edge's plan above, so it sits right on top of where all the pointwork was. The first shot shows the area where the loco yard and turntable were. The line to Brunswick ran into a tunnel on the right-hand side, where the white awning is (these pictures weren't all taken on the same day, which is why the awning isn't in all of them).

 

 

This one shows the backs of the buildings on Bold Street, on the south side of the station.

 

 

Finally, this shot shows the girder that supported the wall immediately above the entrance to the tunnel. This is just visible in the second photo of the signal box in the thread linked to by Apollo above (on the left of the photo, beyond the box: the box was a bit to the right of this picture).

 

 

Jim

[Barry O]

I've researched this for many years, in fact Herculaneum Dock was originally a proposed extension to Central (which was never built).  

Liverpool Central.png

This is a scan of the trackplan I drew up in Turbocad. The basic plan is shortened to suit my available space, the true extent is shown at the left. On the face of it this is an ideal model railway with the three tracks disappearing immediately into the tunnel but the overall roof extends out to the footbridge near the platform ends, in other words covering almost all the station. Not only that but most of it is down in a deep cutting and I came to the reluctant conclusion that it was unexhibitable. 

Operationally Central was very interesting, only two platform faces could take the longer trains and consequently most stock was shunted out into the tunnel to release the loco. This was on the centre road which ran all the way to Brunswick but was not normally used for running. Usually the station pilot (N5 in steam days, later a 350hp diesel) was found up here. The centre roads between the other platforms were normally used as carriage sidings, the turntable was enlarged to 70ft by BR. Liverpool Central Low Level (Mersey Railway) was under the wide platform, it's still there with the track switchbacking up into the CLC tunnel on its way to Hunts Cross

That might just fit across my loft. Stock isn't a problem...

 

Baz

[Enterprisingwestern]

To exploit the possibilities of the track plan, could you re-imagine the station cut into a hillside rather than a cutting, and then open up the front of the layout for viewing? It seems a shame to waste a good prototype.

 

Mike.

[Michael Edge]

That's more or less what I meant but the roof would still need to more transparent. Lime Street has the glass left out which allows some sort of view but that roof is bigger and higher than Central's. Looking in from this side would remove the view of the tunnel mouth and signal box, looking in from the other side might be better but the cross section idea with the Mersey Railway platform doesn't work this way round. The other snag to this was that the viewing side would be opposite to that of Herculaneum Dock.

[Roger Sunderland]

There are some great ideas here and many thanks Jim for the superb photos. I'm not ruling this out as a layout, it could be very atmospheric.

[Barry O]

My idea is to use the track plan sans roof and one side of the station area.

 

It is a great station track plan wise but an awkward location for viewing. Even leaving the glazing out would severely limit the viewing opportunities.

 

Baz