Would you book a Ryanair flight at the moment?

[jjb1970]

The no deaths thing is a highly misleading safety statistic! There are an awful lot of industrial sectors that have very low fatalities but when they do have an accident then the effects can be quite devastating.

 

Leading (rather than lagging eg fatalities/injuries etc) indicators are often a better way of seeing how "safe" a sector/company is eg near misses, employee feedback/perception, safety audits etc (all assume lessons learned are acted upon).

The Baker report into the BP Texas City disaster made this point very strongly, that BP took the absence of an incident as being evidence of a good safety culture, if anybody hasn't read the report it is well worth reading:

 

http://www.csb.gov/assets/1/19/Baker_panel_report1.pdf

[Paperlad]

Ryanair woes part II.

 

Very often the pilots that are flying for Ryanair are not employed by Ryanair but work through an agency such as Brookfield or Storm McGinley. This keeps cost at a minimum for Ryan as they can now avoid additional employment costs such as taxation, NI and pensions along with the associated administrative costs. The pilot is now personally responsible for his or her tax returns in whichever country they are based. There are also different agency contracts given to the pilots, therefore the situation does arise where pilots at the same base, doing the same job are on very different terms.

 

Even though the pilot is classified as self employed they are specifically excluded from working for anyone else. This is largely driven by an annual limit of 900 (1000 in some countries) flying hours and if they flew for another carrier it would limit the number of hours the said pilot could fly for Ryan.

 

By far the vast majority of pilots who fly for Ryan (84%) would prefer to be properly employed by them and have a genuine employment contract appropriate to the country they are based in. Ryan have been vehemently resisting this. Additionally, Ryan are adamant that they will not recognise any unions or other collective representation for the pilot group. This, of course, leads to a great deal of dissatisfaction amongst the pilot group and when those earlier, inexperienced pilots gain some real experience, they move elsewhere.

 

When the, now more experienced, pilot moves elsewhere it creates a vacancy which Ryan will fill with a new cadet and the company makes another €30000....and so the Ryanair money machine rolls on! Right now Ryan have large expansion plans (their whole business model is built on continuos expansion) and will require around 600 pilots before next spring and, some have suggested, 3300 pilots over the next 6 years (not including leavers).

 

Unfortunately for Ryanair the airline industry is currently fairly buoyant for pilot hiring and there are lots of choices for both experienced and cadet pilots out there. Given the above many view Ryan as a last, desperate choice!

 

It's not surprising they're short of pilots.

 

You'll all be pleased to know there's no part III

Edited September 25, 2017 by Paperlad

[PMP]

This, of course, leads to a great deal of dissatisfaction amongst the pilot group and when those earlier, inexperienced pilots gain some real experience, they move elsewhere.

 

When the, now more experienced, pilot moves elsewhere it creates a vacancy which Ryan will fill with a new cadet and the company makes another €30000....and so the Ryanair money machine rolls on! Right now Ryan have large expansion plans (their whole business model is built on continuos expansion) and will require around 600 pilots before next spring and, some have suggested, 3300 pilots over the next 6 years (not including leavers).

 

Unfortunately for Ryanair the airline industry is currently fairly buoyant for pilot hiring and there are lots of choices for both experienced and cadet pilots out there. Given the above many view Ryan as a last, desperate choice!

 

It's not surprising they're short of pilots.

 

You'll all be pleased to know there's no part III

 

The recruitment and training is already well in hand, Ryanair have at least two 737's later today doing line check/type ratings qualification. This is done taking 10+ cadets to an airfield and flying circuits with them. They are booked to do this for about two weeks, 6 days week 8 hrs day, at one location I know of. This means they have a pretty large pool of cadets ready to convert to the right hand seat on the 737 on call. 

This event will undoubtedly be a fly in the ointment for them for a short while, but I doubt it will cramp their style for any significant period of time. As PL has shown in his postings they are incredibly innovative at making money throughout the airline, from the crew training to the aircraft leasing/purchasing arrangements and commercial deals with airport authorities, everything is focussed on making money. I'd be unlikely to be happy to work for them but would be prepared to both book a flight with them and invest money in them. Their safety record is excellent, and whilst I slightly share some of the concerns PL alludes to in his second posting, you don't fly the amount that Ryanair does and not have incidents without being pretty good, and safe at what you do.

There's plenty of life left in Ryanair yet.

 

Regarding 737 landings pilots tell me the technique is to fly the aircraft onto the runway, to not do so allows the aircraft to float, reducing the landing distance available. Watching Thompson/Jet2/Ryanair daily you can see little difference in the landings. Anyone who spends any amount of time watching landings and takeoffs can see there is a very different technique employed across various types/manufacturers, the Embraer 190 family has a very different final flare to both Airbus and Boeing aircraft of similar size for example. 

[Baby Deltic]

No!

[Joseph_Pestell]

I would probably find the view from the nose wheel interesting. But SWMBO definitely would not! No FinnAir for us then.

 

I liked the camera on the nose wheel for take off and landing. 

[Zomboid]

Right now Ryan have large expansion plans (their whole business model is built on continuos expansion) and will require around 600 pilots before next spring and, some have suggested, 3300 pilots over the next 6 years (not including leavers).

A bit like a Pyramid scheme?

[jjb1970]

Emirates have been very successful in pursuing a strategy based on the concept of expanding capacity and then finding markets to fill that capacity. Carnival Cruise have followed the same approach, their business model has been expansion led, building ships and finding new markets for the additional capacity. At some point the market will be fully sated but we appear to still be a way off that point yet.

[chris p bacon]

 Carnival Cruise have followed the same approach, their business model has been expansion led, building ships and finding new markets for the additional capacity. At some point the market will be fully sated but we appear to still be a way off that point yet.

 

Without meaning to go OT but this winter will be interesting for the cruise companies.  From October they start their Winter cruises around the Caribbean Islands, the most most popular and fruitful have just been near wiped off the map,  Houston is also a starting point for some down to Mexico, and I wonder that there are only so many itineraries that can be changed as there are a lot of ports that just cannot accommodate the mega ships.

There are either going to be a lot of cheap cabins to nowhere or huge losses for the cruise companies.

[Horsetan]

.....There are either going to be a lot of cheap cabins to nowhere ....

That's actually a good point. When you go on a cruise, does it actually matter where you go? I thought most of the point was the actual cruise time itself.

[The Stationmaster]

Without meaning to go OT but this winter will be interesting for the cruise companies.  From October they start their Winter cruises around the Caribbean Islands, the most most popular and fruitful have just been near wiped off the map,  Houston is also a starting point for some down to Mexico, and I wonder that there are only so many itineraries that can be changed as there are a lot of ports that just cannot accommodate the mega ships.

There are either going to be a lot of cheap cabins to nowhere or huge losses for the cruise companies.

 

Southern hemisphere summertime so they might move to a very different market area (although with an increase in fuel costs to get there).  No matter - I shan't be looking for any of their offers any more than I'm likely to book a flight on Ryanair.

[The Stationmaster]

That's actually a good point. When you go on a cruise, does it actually matter where you go? I thought most of the point was the actual cruise time itself.

We're veering O/T here but if the point is the cruise itself why are the Carnival (and many other) ships packed with all sorts of gimmicks such as shopping malls and 'entertainment in big theatre areas?  You don't need any of that if you actually want to cruise and see the sea.

 

Hmm, maybe there's a market for a sort of 'Ryanair At Sea' cruise line where everything is extra apart from your cabin and set meals?

[Zomboid]

A cruise is basically a holiday camp on a boat, isn't it?

Not my idea of fun at least.

[Colin_McLeod]

A cruise is basically a holiday camp on a boat, isn't it?

Not my idea of fun at least.

It depends on the type of cruise. We consider the ship to be a portable hotel. Last month we visited several Baltic cities but without the hassle of checking in and out of different hotels. In effect we brought our hotel with us from city to city.

 

Some cruise ships are floating Butlins but others are more four and five star establishments. No matter how good the ship is, the places visited are also an important part of a cruise for us.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Colin_McLeod

[Horsetan]

....Hmm, maybe there's a market for a sort of 'Ryanair At Sea' cruise line where everything is extra apart from your cabin and set meals?

Which it already effectively is, if the Cunard cruise to Norway was anything to go by. 

 

A cruise is basically a holiday camp on a boat, isn't it?

Not my idea of fun at least.

"Hello campers....hi-de-hi!"

[Colin_McLeod]

"Hello campers....hi-de-hi!"

Surely you mean "Hello sailors..."

[roundhouse]

We used Eurostar and Thalys last weekend to Rotterdam. Whilst we did have a half hour delay on Eurostar on the way out both me and my other half both agreed that it was far more pleasant than using the budget airlines such as Ryanair and probably just as quick despite needing longer to than usual to check in at St Pancras.

On the way back we sat in the cafe at Brussels Midi keeping an eye on the queues for Eurostar which only extended onto the concourse just before the check in gates opened.

Whilst Rotterdam and Brussels are that much closer than many airline destinations it’s still our preferable option.

Edited September 26, 2017 by roundhouse

[EddieB]

It depends on the type of cruise. We consider the ship to be a portable hotel. Last month we visited several Baltic cities but without the hassle of checking in and out of different hotels. In effect we brought our hotel with us from city to city.

 

Some cruise ships are floating Butlins but others are more four and five star establishments. No matter how good the ship is, the places visited are also an important part of a cruise for us.

On the other hand, the car ferries that connect Stockholm with Helsinki and Turku are built like cruise liners, and you have your car available when you arrive at the port.

[Joseph_Pestell]

We're veering O/T here but if the point is the cruise itself why are the Carnival (and many other) ships packed with all sorts of gimmicks such as shopping malls and 'entertainment in big theatre areas?  You don't need any of that if you actually want to cruise and see the sea.

 

Hmm, maybe there's a market for a sort of 'Ryanair At Sea' cruise line where everything is extra apart from your cabin and set meals?

I think Easy already tried this.

[DavidR]

Just flew back, last night, from Poland (Lufthansa): Katowice - Frankfurt; Frankfurt - Heathrow, (bus to Norwich). Fare (booked in July) considerably cheaper than you-know-who, although it did mean changing (like you used to at Crewe!). Overall, a good experience, with little waiting around and 23 Kg. luggage allowance in with the fare.

One really should shop around for travel nowadays; I guess I'm lucky in that I have the choice of Wizz Air (Luton - Kat.) Lufthansa (already mentioned), or you - know -who (Stanstead - Kat.), sadly no BA.

[Enterprisingwestern]

A cruise is basically a holiday camp on a boat, cunningly designed to look like a block of 1960's council flats isn't it?

Not my idea of fun at least.

 

Amended!

 

Mike.

[Ron Ron Ron]

We used Eurostar and Thalys last weekend to Rotterdam. Whilst we did have a half hour delay on Eurostar on the way out both me and my other half both agreed that it was far more pleasant than using the budget airlines such as Ryanair and probably just as quick despite needing longer to than usual to check in at St Pancras.

 

On the way back we sat in the cafe at Brussels Midi keeping an eye on the queries for Eurostar which only extended onto the concourse just before the check in gates opened.

 

Whilst Rotterdam and Brussels are that much closer than many airline destinations it’s still our preferable option.

 

 

We did this rail trip recently too.

We've also flown it twice.

I personally don't agree with your conclusion and preference.

 

First a few points.

You can't fly from London to Rotterdam with Ryanair, or any other LoCo airline; however there are 6 flights a day from London City Airport with BA, on a very comfortable Embraer jet.

From central London, in most cases the flight from LCY will be a lot quicker door to door, by around 2 hours or so.

From say the west end, getting out to LCY on the tube and DLR, to arrival in central Rotterdam should average about 2:50hr.

Flight time is scheduled for 55 mins, but the time in the air is usually around 40 to 45 mins max. 

Time spent travelling in both trains is around the 3hr 15 mins mark, but total journey time is a minimum of about 4 hours, without counting Eurostar check-in time and journeys to/from the stations at either end..

Fares are sometimes difficult to compare, unless you look at specific dates and times from the present time perspective. Being flexible on departure times and dates, the rail and air fares can be very comparable.

 

I liked the Eurostar leg of the journey and I was rather looking forward to travelling on the Thales service from Brussels, but was quite disappointed.

For a start it was fully (or almost) fully booked and felt rather crowded and the train seemed a bit scruffy to me.

I won't say much about our fellow passengers from Brussels to Rotterdam, except that some of them were very noisy.

It wasn't as bad on the return though, except that over running engineering work on the Netherlands rail network had led to delays and cancellations. We were lucky.

 

Horses for courses and all that, but if I can avoid sitting on a train for more than a couple of hours, I will take the alternative most days.

 

 

Mind you, we've just been over to Canada for a couple of weeks for a "late fall" break.

We enjoy travelling and fly a lot (3 or 4 long haul trips and maybe half a dozen or more short haul trips per year).

However, in a rare attempt to save a bit of money, on this trip we opted for cheap flights with Air Transat (for those who don't know, they're a sort of budget priced Canadian airline, formerly a charter operator).

The seat width and seat pitch was not generous.

They've converted their 8 seats across (2-4-2) Airbus fleet to 9 across (3-3-3) with the obvious consequences for passenger comfort.

Outbound was tolerable, as we had 3 seats for the two of us, but the return overnight flight was full and very cramped and uncomfortable.

 

The minimal inclusive food offering was basic. Everything else had to be paid for.

 

Outbound, a light meal. Later in the flight an afternoon cup of tea/coffee with a cake, but no other cabin service or drinks. Not even offered. No cabin crew to be seen, the nearest galley deserted for most of the flight.

On the late night return flight, a hot baguette sandwich, oozing with some hot cheesy, mayo type type stuff (served in a plastic wrapper) Yuk!

That was all you got, apart from a small slice of cake and a tiny cup of tea/coffee served next morning before landing.

Other meal choices were available to purchase. We were not tempted!

 

Air Transat offer a free drink with your meal (a small plastic glass of wine or soft drinks), complementary tea, coffee or soft drink with your snack. You had to purchase any thing else.

No complementary water, or drinks service, free or otherwise.

 

This is how I'd imagine a hypothetical Ryanair long-haul service might be.

Well it was actually a bit better than that, and at least they didn't attempt to sell us scratch cards or anything else; but it was pretty dire nethertheless.

Never again.

 

I was tempted to try a trans-Atlantic trip with Norwegian, but despite the reasonable reviews, after the Air Transat experience I think we'll stick to other carriers (inc. BA), preferably using premium economy and business class.

 

.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Ron Ron Ron

[Enterprisingwestern]

A reasoned and balanced reply, thanks Ron.

 

Mike.

[chris p bacon]

This is how I'd imagine a hypothetical Ryanair long-haul service might be.

 

.

 

From some time ago, but there was supposed to be incentives for travelling Ryanair business class.

 

[PMP]

 

Mind you, we've just been over to Canada for a couple of weeks for a "late fall" break.

 

The minimal inclusive food offering was basic. Everything else had to be paid for.

 

<snip>

 

Air Transat offer a free drink with your meal (a small plastic glass of wine or soft drinks), complementary tea, coffee or soft drink with your snack. You had to purchase any thing else.

No complementary water, or drinks service, free or otherwise.

 

This is how I'd imagine a hypothetical Ryanair long-haul service might be.

Well it was actually a bit better than that, and at least they didn't attempt to sell us scratch cards or anything else; but it was pretty dire nethertheless.

Never again.

 

I was tempted to try a trans-Atlantic trip with Norwegian, but despite the reasonable reviews, after the Air Transat experience I think we'll stick to other carriers (inc. BA), preferably using premium economy and business class.

 

.

We may have been on the same flights.

 

For the money I don't think the Transat experience in economy was unreasonable. As far as the drinks go we asked for orange juices and were provided them FOC on both legs, seat pitch was as expected. In flight entertainment was ok, a tablet in the seat back with a good cross section of entertainment, remember to take your own phone headphones as you do have to buy a set if you have none with you for about a fiver. We booked both legs for four less than a month from departure and got a pretty good price, the aircraft was close to capacity both legs. It is what you pay for, cabin crew were excellent both legs particularly when a daughter was air sick. Can't really complain for the product vs price on our flights, it was budget and comfortable enough for the duration. A few years ago we used the Transat 'business class' and it was very good indeed, certainly an airline I'd use again either class. One option we may also choose is Westjet from Dublin, with the obvious task of getting to Dublin first, Westjet having a good reputation among friends whom have used them.

[APOLLO]

 

I liked the camera on the nose wheel for take off and landing. 

 

 

Disappearing as it bounces through the grass !!!

 

A Ryanair plane lost one of its nose wheels and had to perform an emergency landing at East Midlands Airport.

 

http://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/ryanair-plane-makes-emergency-landing-481625

 

Brit15