Would you book a Ryanair flight at the moment?

[Zomboid]

How to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory...build an aircraft with some very neat cabin features and what seems to be a nicer cabin environment and then fit smaller seats.

Did they learn that from rail, or was it the other way round?

[APOLLO]

Flying long haul in economy isn’t a pleasant experience, especially as more airlines reduce seat width to squeeze in an extra seat, such as going from 3-3-3 to 3-4-3 in their Boeing 777s. Premium economy is a useful upgrade but as you say the in-flight catering is still economy class. Business class is so much nicer, although I still don’t enjoy it. I find one of the biggest bonuses in business class is the ground handling experience and being able to avoid most of the queuing at various points in airports. Most airlines now use those pods, I find most of them are badly designed in tapering in too much in the foot well which makes it difficult to get comfortable with the seat in flat bed position (I appreciate it’s a small thing compared to trying to get comfortable in economy class….). The food is certainly a lot better in business class but a question I like to ask is how much people would happily pay for the meal if they went to a restaurant? That said, every now and again you do get a meal which is genuinely superb, one of the best in-flight meals I ever had was in Air Canada business class of all airlines. I do find flying in the Boeing 787 a nicer experience, it seems to have a better cabin environment for some reason.

That said, when I’m buying my own ticket I fly economy. We have family holidays in Asia and if you’re paying for a family of four it is just too expensive to go business class (even if I could afford it I’d rather spend the money on stuff at the destination). I was disappointed that Garuda Indonesia cancelled their London service as their 777s were excellent (still 3-3-3), in-flight service was excellent and it avoided transferring mid-way. And we got a family and friends ticket so it was cheap.

 

You really must visit the SS Great Britain at Bristol. Brunels ship has been really well restored. look at the tiny bunks - basically a 2 foot wide plank - and imagine weeks being cramped up here in sometimes rough seas. And this was THE BEST back then - others were much, much worse.

 

I never complain about flying long haul - my parents and grandparents would have thought it simply superb, - as long as it departs & arrives more or less on time I'm O.K. !!

 

We have it made these days, Australia in around 24 hours with emirates airlines via Dubai on the fantastic quiet & rock steady A380. Even in cattle class food is decent, the entertainment system is simply superb. 

 

What annoys me with flying these days as the faffing about & pallaver at the airports, a pain in the bum.

 

Brit15

[PatB]

Last time I went to the UK from Oz I flew with Royal Brunei. Not only were they the cheapest, but doing the trip in three legs (Perth-Brunei-Dubai-Heathrow) rather than two was much more bearable and not appreciably slower. There seemed to be more space than with others I've flown with too. 

[Fenman]

Last time I went to the UK from Oz I flew with Royal Brunei. Not only were they the cheapest, but doing the trip in three legs (Perth-Brunei-Dubai-Heathrow) rather than two was much more bearable and not appreciably slower. There seemed to be more space than with others I've flown with too. 

 

 

I've also taken to splitting ultra-longhaul into two legs (Qatar and Emirates provide natural hubs for most of my ULH journeys); the thought of Qantas' non-stop London-Perth service launching next year doesn't attract me at all.

 

Paul

Edited October 4, 2017 by Fenman

[roundhouse]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/04/raf-fighter-jets-scrambled-escortryanair-plane-stansted/

[beast66606]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/04/raf-fighter-jets-scrambled-escortryanair-plane-stansted/

 

The escorts made the earth move for me this morning with their sonic booms.

[chriswright03]

The escorts made the earth move for me this morning with their sonic booms.

http://www.suffolkgazette.com/news/sonic-boom/

[Oldddudders]

A friend posts on Facebook today “Just landed safely in Manchester. Unfortunately our car is in Birmingham. Thanks Monarch.”

 

It is being suggested a significant % of holidays are not Atol-underwritten. That could empty a few wallets.

[Titan]

The escorts made the earth move for me this morning with their sonic booms.

 

That could have a completely different meaning in another context....

[The Stationmaster]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/04/raf-fighter-jets-scrambled-escortryanair-plane-stansted/

 

You can just see it now as O'Leary comes up with yet another sales idea - '£15 from Stansted to Anywhere and you're guaranteed your personal fighter escort in UK airspace.  £10 for flights without fighter escort but £10 surcharge if you have not pre-booked a  fighter escort and one is provided.'

[PMP]

A friend posts on Facebook today “Just landed safely in Manchester. Unfortunately our car is in Birmingham. Thanks Monarch.”

 

It is being suggested a significant % of holidays are not Atol-underwritten. That could empty a few wallets.

 

 

 If they flew Monarch without ATOL protection that is the purchasers liability. Monarch flight only and flights/packages were available with ATOL protection at time of purchase.

 

Replacing overnight the entire Monarch network was what the UK CAA was left with after the collapse, so unsurprisingly some flights were overcapacity and some had to do split loads and routes. However free onward coach transport was/is laid on for passengers arriving at a different airport to departure. This has occurred to two works colleagues.

 

So not buying ATOL protection or adequate travel insurance, but still getting brought home FOC, and an inconvenience of a free transfer back to the destination airport, or not knowing how you're going to pay next months mortgage. Some people don't realise how lucky they are. 

 

The White Horse at Tea Green (village pub close to the airport) had a different approach to Monarch and their staff

2nd October 08:22 am

We are devastated to hear the sad news for all of our customers at Monarch Airlines. I myself worked for Monarch for 12 years and wish all my friends and ex colleagues all the best for the future.

We would like to invite Monarch employees to lunch on us today so if your still in the area or looking for somewhere to just hang out we would love to see you! Please remember your ID. We look forward to seeing you soon.

 

3rd Oct 21:12

What an overwhelming and emotional day for our friends at Monarch Airlines. We were stunned by the positive response we received from the monarch staff and the media not to mention our Facebook post which received over 15,000 views and over 1000 likes in a matter of hours. I’d like to say a personal thank you to my chefs who cooked like they’ve never cooked before and my awesome front of house team, Laura, Amie, Chloe, Sheryl and Sarah.

We wish Monarch staff all the best for the future and we look forward to seeing you all soon.

[Enterprisingwestern]

So, now the dust has settled a bit, how would you like to see the future of short haul air travel?

1. Keep the current economics of the madhouse scenario, flights from under £20, with every now and again a cock up/collapse situation, but hey, that's ok because we're getting cheap flights.

2. Pay a common sense fare, say approximately £100 per leg as a ball park figure, get more legroom, better service and a more enjoyable flight experience, and, theoretically, get a more economically sound company.

 

Mike.

[Zomboid]

We do largely have that choice now, in as much as easyJet & Ryanair are a choice. I once flew to Scandinavia on SAS because I didn't want to deal with the compromises of "low cost" airlines, though Ryanair was available at a lower headline price (don't know what I would have actually paid in the end if I had gone for that). It cost a bit more but I didn't regret it.

 

Either way though, you have to deal with airports...

[The Stationmaster]

We do largely have that choice now, in as much as easyJet & Ryanair are a choice. I once flew to Scandinavia on SAS because I didn't want to deal with the compromises of "low cost" airlines, though Ryanair was available at a lower headline price (don't know what I would have actually paid in the end if I had gone for that). It cost a bit more but I didn't regret it.

 

Either way though, you have to deal with airports...

 

Agree.  When I went on my 'grand tour' around bits of European railway in 2003 I flew out with Ryanair mainly because they happened to go to Lubeck (which they called Hamburg) but also to give it a try (once was enough).  A couple of days later up on the Brocken I got into conversation with a couple of chaps who had flown out with BA to an airport much nearer Wernigerode than Lubeck and their fare, total, was just under four times what I had paid.  It struck me as as good a bargain as I had got as their flight left on time, they got more space and some inflight food (it was 2003 don't forget) and far less 'airport messing about' than I had endured - at both ends of my flight.  You pays yer money and makes yer choice.

 

PS I returned by train, Eurostar from Brussel/Bruxelles (having left Berne the same morning as my departure from Brussel).  Incidentally I didn't do my outward leg by trains as flying to Germany saved me time - again I paid my money having made my choice.

[br2975]

Ryanair CEO, Michael O’Leary goes into a pub in Cork and asks for a pint of Guinness.
The barman nods and says: “That will be one euro”.

A pleased O’Leary hands over the money and comments: “That’s very cheap”.

“Yes sir, it is” replies the barman, “however, if you want
to drink the Guinness in a glass, you’ll have to pay an extra
€3”.

 

The Chief Executive scowls but pays up.

 

He takes his drink goes towards a seat.

 

“Ah, sir, if you want to sit down, you’ll first have to sit in
this frame,” observes the barman.

 

Unfortunately O’Leary can’t squeeze into the frame. “Nobody
could fit in that little thing,” he complains.

 

“Then you’ll have to pay a surcharge of €5 for your seat,
sir”, cautions the barman.

 

“This is ridiculous,” cries O’Leary. “I want to see the manager”.

 

“Certainly sir”, responds the barman. “Here is his email
address or, if you wish, you can contact him between 9 and
9.10 any Monday morning. Calls are free until they are answered.
Then there is a talking charge of only 10 cents per
second.”

 

A furious O’Leary swears he’ll never come into this pub
again, to which the barman answers: “That’s perfectly O.K
sir, but remember we’re the only pub in Ireland selling pints
for one euro!”

Edited October 5, 2017 by br2975

[Ron Ron Ron]

So, now the dust has settled a bit, how would you like to see the future of short haul air travel?

1. Keep the current economics of the madhouse scenario, flights from under £20, with every now and again a cock up/collapse situation, but hey, that's ok because we're getting cheap flights.

2. Pay a common sense fare, say approximately £100 per leg as a ball park figure, get more legroom, better service and a more enjoyable flight experience, and, theoretically, get a more economically sound company.

 

Mike.

 

 

That's a matter for the market to decide, through consumer choice.

The low cost "revolution" is not uniquely European. It"S continuing across the globe and shows no sign of abating.

 

The number of people flying continues to grow at a fairly high pace.

Even in the UK, where we're told people are "just about managing", there has been a huge growth in passenger numbers over the last 24 months.

Over the last 3 years, from 2014 to date, passenger traffic at the UK's main airports has seen growth that in some cases is in the range of 20% to as much as 30%.

 

e.g.

Manchester - approx 25% over 3 years

2014 - 22.0 million

2015 - 23.2 million

2016 - 25.6 million

2017 - 27.2 million (to date)

 

Gatwick - approx 20% over the same period.

2014 - 38 million

2017 - 45 million (to date)

 

Birmingham - approx 30% over the same period.

2014 - 9.7 million

2017 - 12.9 million (to date)

 

 

This growth is fuelled by both the popularity of the low cost carriers and the large growth in the number of people taking long-haul holidays.

While the recent dip in the value of the pound has also increased the amount of inwards tourism, the number of UK nationals travelling continues to grow.

 

.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Ron Ron Ron

[br2975]

In July our FR8296 18:35 Bristol - Alicante Ryanair flight was announced as twenty minutes late, as we stood at the departure gate.

.

We watched the incoming plane land, and taxi........past the stand, toward a distant apron.

.

The departure screens changed to show the new departure time as 00:15.

.

The Swissport staff handed out leaflets and ushered back to the departure lounge.

.

Eventually I receive a text message from Ryanair, telling me that by presenting my boarding card at any one of the outlets in the terminal I can claim a euro 5 / £3.50p discount........e.g. a coffee at Starbucks.

.

We eventually arrived in Alicante at 03:30hrs local time, by means of a later Alicante - Bristol flight being turned around - the excuse given by Ryanair was 'no crew available at Bristol' 

 

We were charged an additional euro 20 by our car hire company, as their Alicante office had to remain open.

.

Now, we are regular travellers with Ryanair, we are wise to the money making quirks of their website.

 

We were wise to their trick of putting a tag on carry on baggage when you check in at the desk; and checking un-tagged carry-on baggage at the gate, using a smaller crate than the ones at the check-in desk.

.

We are wise to their Ryanair charity lottery.

.

We are wise to their additional cost to select seats and sit together ........I can survive not sitting next to the wife for two hours, the same as I can go two hours without eating grossly overpriced snacks and drinks.

.

We treat Ryanair as a means to an end, and can endure the travel conditions for two hours, knowing there is a two week holiday in the sun at the other end.

.

You get what you pay for, if you don't want it, don't tick the box and don't pay for it.

.

The are bigger crooks than Ryanair on the costas, car hire companies for a start (e.g. Europcar, Dickman's - for two).

.

Brian R

[EddieB]

The thing about Ryanair is that, by and large, you know what to expect - they deliver to a formula but they deliver nonetheless (well most of the time).  There are plenty of other airlines - some flag carriers - who consistently fail to meet the standards that might be expected of them.

 

I've also been surcharged by a car rental company because they waited overnight for a late arrival on Brussels Airlines.  That journey was a dismal experience to say the least.  We were due to change planes at Brussels, but our inward flight was delayed by a storm.  The outbound flight was delayed even more so (in my experience Brussels never fly to schedule at the best of times).  We landed at Brussels at around 9:30pm.  The airport officially shuts at 10pm (like any major international airport?), but basically most of the staff had gone home, locked and closed the transit routes, so we had to leave the airport and re-enter.  Of course, there were no ground staff to advise passengers in transit what to do and where to go.  Compensation for the delay (several hours), as with Ryanair, was doled out grudgingly.  

 

On another occasion, a business trip to Dublin on an Air France partner airline.  The flight plan said it included "meals", so I held off getting food at the airport expecting to eat on the plane.  When the "meals" came, it was three plain, dry biscuits.  

[Titan]

Looks like a few chickens coming home to roost:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41520970

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41319482

Edited October 6, 2017 by Titan

[Horsetan]

Meanwhile, in this week's Private Eye :

 

[Colin_McLeod]

Horsetan that cartoon is like being shipwrecked in the Atlantic and being picked up by the Titanic.

[Ron Ron Ron]

....Premium economy is a useful upgrade but as you say the in-flight catering is still economy class. .....

 

 

It depends on the airline.

According to no.1 daughter (who works for BA), BA long-haul Premium Economy meals are essentially the same as those served in Club (BA's name for Business Class), only presented in a more basic form.

 

Premium Economy is a variable product across the various airlines who offer it (not all do).

 

Some airlines premium economy cabins have wider, so called "recliner seats", with extra leg room. Resulting in fewer seats per row.

The amount of extra seat width varies, with one or two airlines providing much wider seats than others.

It also differs between different aircraft types within the same airline.

 

However, other airlines only provide the exact same limited recline seats as regular economy, but with increased legroom and possibly upgraded meal/drinks service etc.

n.b. American Airlines are upfront about this and don't use the "Premium Economy" tag, but rather the title "Main Cabin Extra".

 

.

[jjb1970]

I haven't flown premium economy for a while and only ever did it with Air Canada and BA (the rule of my employer at the time was that if I flew on a fee earning job I went business class as it was billed to the client, if it was not fee earning I flew premium economy), in both cases the seats were a genuine step up being like a smaller, narrower version of the old business class seat before that class adopted flat bed seats but the catering was economy class.

One of my pet annoyances just now is Etihad using some goofy headphone connector. I have a really good pair of Sony noise cancelling headphones but can't use them with the inflight entertainment on Etihad (although I can still use them with my music player or computer) and the Etihad noise cancelling 'phones are rubbish. So even though they usually have a pretty good selection of movies I prefer to listen to music and read a book or work if I'm not sleeping during the flight on that airline rather than watching movies.

[Ross34]

Last time I went to the UK from Oz I flew with Royal Brunei. Not only were they the cheapest, but doing the trip in three legs (Perth-Brunei-Dubai-Heathrow) rather than two was much more bearable and not appreciably slower. There seemed to be more space than with others I've flown with too. 

 

What did you think of them as an airline? I'm contemplating a trip to Adelaide next year and worked out Royal Brunei can get me there via Darwin (then Qantas to Adelaide - or The Ghan!)

[Ron Ron Ron]

.......One of my pet annoyances just now is Etihad using some goofy headphone connector. I have a really good pair of Sony noise cancelling headphones but can't use them with the inflight entertainment on Etihad (although I can still use them with my music player or computer) and the Etihad noise cancelling 'phones are rubbish.....

I mentioned this in an earlier post. Etihad's rubbish headphone arrangement is a nuisance.

We won't be using them again in a hurry, as apart from that issue, connecting through Abu Dhabi is awful, due to Etihad's hot potch congested terminal 3 and the cumbersome transfer arrangements. It will no doubt improve when the massive new terminal opens in a couple of years time.

Apart from that, we found Etihad's cabin service to be consistently awful over 4 legs of our return journey to SE Asia.

 

 

Ron.