Hills of the North - The Last Great Project

[LNER4479]

MANCHESTER SHOW REPORT

 

Layout generally well-received. We were three deep during the busiest time, middle of the day Saturday. Here follows a few pix from a slightly quieter time - 8.30 this morning!

 

The sequence curtain raiser. Definitely a star train, even if it is just all out-of-the-box Hornby. I suppose it might benefit from a slight haze of weathering but not top of the 'to do' list currently.

 

The Midday Scot coming the other way, for this photo at least in the charge of my newly-acquired DJH Duchess. We gave her a spin but not the right era loco for this turn - No.6201 normally works this. I have plans for this black beauty ...

 

One Duchess that definitely did work another of the star turns was 'Sir's lovely City of London, allocated to the Caledonian all day today.

 

How the mighty are fallen! This is the first chance I've had to set this up, now that 46256's right hand side has acquired the cabside stripe. This combo is as per Derek Cross August 1964 photo (at Tebay) of this train.

 

Some further goods train action, this time featuring the ever-popular car train ... which somehow seems to have been checked just before the summit. Most unusual!

 

A few minutes later, the banker concerned free-wheels back down towards Tebay. Previously on loan from 92220 of this parish, it's now mine and has duly acquired a heavy coat of weathering ....

 

... based on this. The real No. 42110 in action, August 1964 (still from the video of Dad's cine film).

 

At the summit, the last banked train in the sequence is alongside the box and can now take a breather. In case you can't make it out, it's No.70049 at the end of her days, having lost its former 'Solway Firth' nameplates.

 

Finally - and from the earlier 1950s era - Tebay's 'pet' Fowler 2-6-4T pauses in the banker siding - must be something important due on the 'Up'. Note the new ground signals which ... er ... didn't all work quite as fautlessly as hoped. On the snag list!

 

Now safely back home and layout unloaded. Thanks to the team that gamely assisted at the show - Andrew, Paul, Tom, Barry O and Steve (31A). Bit of a well-earned rest now until York.

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by LNER4479

[Compound2632]

So 42110 was lined green? It's impossible to tell from that 1964 colour photo!

[LNER4479]

Definitely lined black underneath all that brown Stephen! Watching the video back and forth, the only piece of lining that can be seen is at the front of the tank where - I'm presuming - water spilling down from the tank filler has washed away sufficient dirt to reveal the livery beneath? An odd weathering effect which I've tried to replicate. Further comparison pix below.

 

 

 

Colour photos show that some of the Std 4 4-6-0s transferred in at the end were green liveried, from the Western Region, complete with blue dot route indicator beneath the number. 75024 & 75026 (with double chimneys) are examples I've found on t'internet. The now preserved 75027 might fit into the same category.

Edited December 12, 2022 by LNER4479

[Compound2632]

17 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Definitely lined black underneath all that brown Stephen!

 

Looking again more closely I see that what I had taken for black and orange lining on the model is in fact cream and red - so if the livery of the model is as difficult to be sure of as the prototype, that's definitely a tribute to your weathering!

[johndon]

15 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

MANCHESTER SHOW REPORT

 

Layout generally well-received. We were three deep during the busiest time, middle of the day Saturday. Here follows a few pix from a slightly quieter time - 8.30 this morning!

 

 

 

Layout looked and ran well when I stopped for a look on Sunday morning and it was good to have a chat and show you the South Pelaw controls.  I look forward to seeing the great project when it has advanced enough and, as mentioned, you are more than welcome to come and see South Pelaw at home sometime.

 

John

 

[LNER4479]

CHRISTMAS 2022 CHALLENGE

 

Having set a precedent over the last couple of years, I've been thinking of what I could tackle this year? So I've decided to try and finish something I started a while ago ...

 

This.

 

I actually started it some 18 months ago but, after an initial burst of work, it's just been looking at me on the workbench for the last year.

 

I think I've rounded up all the parts I need. Time for some shut eye now then let's see how we get on.

 

 

 

[LNER4479]

Morning.

 

A little bit of a cheat(?) as I actually made a start yesterday afternoon. Quite glad I did as the job to hand took several hours on its own - the motion bracket(s)

 

Quite a distinctive part on LMS locos, with the inevitable permutations and combinations, I'd previously gotten as far as installing fore and aft supports. The kit merely provides a (chunky) w/m outside part but I wanted to engineer it properly. A rummage through the 'valve gear parts' tin revealed several old Jamieson LMS valve gear sets, including said part in n/s. But they're too deep to go with the w/m running plate on this kit. So, here, I've soldered 4 together to be cut to size, together with bearing hole drilled.

 

20 mins careful work with piercing saw later.

 

Rear ones installed first, with chassis placed in position on body to ensure its a snug fit underneath. According to my numerous calculations and drawing checks, this SHOULD have the bearing hole for the expansion link in more or less the right place(!)

 

A length of 0.7mm rod is used to ensure both sides line up and are parallel. I had to file away the top edges of the frames to get the rod to pass through from side to side but I think it was worth it to get these parts lined up - you won't see the top of the frames when it's all assembled and running.

 

Time for some insane detail. The outside brackets have a distinctive beading strip that follows the bottom edge. 5 amp fuse wire and careful work with the soldering iron does the job.

 

And here we are with the outside brackets now fitted.

 

A check with the 0.7mm rod, showing how the expansion link will hang.

 

And with body in place showing the fit beneath the running plate.

 

All this done at this stage so that I can now fit the front driving wheels for keeps. These (wheels) would have fouled the 0.7mm rod passing from side to side.

 

Next job - fit wheels and motorise! 

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by LNER4479

[LNER4479]

Time for a time check, in case you thought it's all a big fiddle...

 

Here are the parts for the basic six coupled assembly.

 

Firstly, front wheelset fitted with spacing washers (you should be able to make them out on the axle?) such that's it's free to rotate but otherwise with no sideplay.

 

With all drivers fitted, rods were binding. End of small round file use to open out coupling rod bearing holes EVER SO SLIGHTLY.

 

Still binding at one particular spot in the rotation. Coupling rods are fixed so this little check (as a long wheelbase 0-4-0) undertaken. Perfect smooth rotation (!) so the problem lies with the centre rod bearing.

 

Eventually detected that both were slightly out; use 1mm drill in hand twist chuck as a sort of crude milling device to elongate holes to correct. Now all rotates smoothly.

(All a bit strange as rods were previously assembled with the chassis mounted in the Poppy's jig?)

 

That's all taken a little while ... but no point rushing to end up with a poor running loco.

 

Bogie next.

Edited December 26, 2022 by LNER4479

[LNER4479]

Did I mention that this is only really intended as a 'layout loco'?

 

The kit comes with a basic w/m lump for a bogie; I have a spare old Mainline 4-6-0 chassis (or three) to hand so makes sense to use that instead. However, needs modifying to accept centre pin.

 

Well, I broke another piercing saw blade in the process but here is the old plastic centre pin removed and a slider plate made up from scrap brass.

 

Ready for fitment.

 

And we duly have ourselves a 4-6-0. Looks a bit 'gappy' at the front end but some front frame pieces and steps should see to that.

 

[LNER4479]

And now the all important motor installation...

 

Decided to use this GB2 I bought some while back. Bit lazy but it should get us up and running quickest.

 

Except that there's a problem (!) Upon first offering, it was a tight fit - too tight - between the frames. Not the fault of the motor - older kit frames were close together, to give more wheelset slop (presumably?), with motor designed to fit open frame style. So, to work with the file ...

 

There was a subsequent hour's work to get to this point. Having filed back the more obvious protuberances, it was still a tight fit. Sensing trouble, I tried it clear of the frames (partly to make sure that it was working in the first place!) before trying fitted as shown. Motor turned but was slower and tighter - wheelset wouldn't move freely by hand. I ended up carefully filing flat those fittings on gearbox that were slightly proud - steady as she goes - before I was happy and we got this result. Revolving as freely as it was out of frames 

 

Even moved OK with rods back on and body on.

 

Took a while but - again - time worthwhile invested in the name of future trouble free running.

 

Be tea time soon, so might be a slight hiatus. The night is young yet.

[sjp23480]

11 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Except that there's a problem (!) Upon first offering, it was a tight fit - too tight - between the frames

I have often wondered about the tight fitting gearboxes.  I saw from your pictures (very helpful BTW) that you have fitted bearings in the frames and the gearbox, but I was wondering if it is possible to use one set of bearings for the frames and gearbox and if this reduces the amount of friction/resistance?

 

Thanks

Steve

[lincolnshiremodeller]

3 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Did I mention that this is only really intended as a 'layout loco'?

 

What does that mean? As opposed to...?

[LNER4479]

2 hours ago, sjp23480 said:

I have often wondered about the tight fitting gearboxes.  I saw from your pictures (very helpful BTW) that you have fitted bearings in the frames and the gearbox, but I was wondering if it is possible to use one set of bearings for the frames and gearbox and if this reduces the amount of friction/resistance?

 

Thanks

Steve

The DJH gearbox comes with the bearings already fitted so I had to run with what I had. I'm not sure if I've ever tried one common bearing before? Sounds plausible ... I must try it sometime 😉

 

1 hour ago, lincolnshiremodeller said:

What does that mean? As opposed to...?

A showcase loco?! When I build for myself, my priority is a reasonable looking loco that runs well and is capable of doing a job of work. If I'm building for someone else different matter. My starting point in such a case is unlikely to be a previous generation, w/m kit.

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by LNER4479

[LNER4479]

So here we go with the evening session. As it looks unlikely that I'm actually going to finish the thing today, let's switch to some more interesting visual stuff and focus on the bodywork, starting with a time check.

 

Most obvious missing item is the cab. Here, I am indebted to Innocentman of this parish who made some etches for his rather excellent recent Patriot build and duly passed on some spare bits n pieces once he saw I was also tackling the same loco type. This is - as I understand - a test build of the cab etch. Good enough for me and a step above the chunky w/m parts with the kit.

 

But there's a problem! Nowt wrong with the lovely etch - there's just too much lumpen white metal in the way. 

 

Out with the hacksaw and mind the fingers.

 

That's better - should fit now ...

 

Except... Again, I'm sure the etch is fine - it's the curve in the w/m footplate that's not right. If I were me, I wouldn't have started from here.

 

However, the height check checked out just fine so, with that I fired up the soldering irons. Having tinned the n/s with normal solder, here's the low melt in action.

 

And thus we have somewhere for the crew to go.

 

Right - let's see what else we can affix ...

[LNER4479]

Essential appendages:

 

Kit contains two choices of chimbley, dome, safety valves and reasonable set of buffers 

 

Didn't think the chimneys were too bad so fitted the smaller one BUT it was solid so, once soldered firmly in place, it was unceremoniously drilled out!

 

The dome was rubbish however (no lip on it at all) so I fettled up this brass one from the chimneys/ domes box. Again, the brass was tinned then the low melt applied - capillary action takes enough of the solder into the gap to make a good bond.

 

And with buffers also affixed (sprung would be nice but not really necessary), it's starting to look like a loco.

 

Let's see what else we can find ...

 

[31A]

5 hours ago, sjp23480 said:

I have often wondered about the tight fitting gearboxes.  I saw from your pictures (very helpful BTW) that you have fitted bearings in the frames and the gearbox, but I was wondering if it is possible to use one set of bearings for the frames and gearbox and if this reduces the amount of friction/resistance?

 

Thanks

Steve

 

I have done that a few times.  I used one set of bearings on the driven axle, passing through both the frames and the gearbox.  I did think it might lead to a more freely running loco, as the motor and gearbox are then carried by the frames (via the bearings) rather than on the driven axle.  But it does mean that once you've soldered these bearings in place the gearbox is captive, as is the motor unless you can screw it to the gearbox after the gearbox has been installed.  I'd like to think it does lead to a more freely running loco, but it's one of those things that it's difficult to quantify.  The locos I've built like that have all been good runners.

 

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Time for a time check, in case you thought it's all a big fiddle...

That's all very well but I can't see the date...

 

That's better!

[LNER4479]

Innocentman's spare etch parts also included a set of steps, seen here alongside the equivalent parts in the kit. Rear steps I'll use as supplied as they're a pretty close match; however the kit's front steps are a bit pants and the extra finesse of etched parts will all enhance that front end look.

 

They needed a bit of modification as they're designed to fit behind a genuine valance, whereas I'm dealing with a crude lump of white metal.

 

Now installed, together with the distinctive support bracket - which genuinely helps strengthen what is otherwise a vulnerable part.

 

And, with rear ones fitted, we now have a full set of steps.

 

Time for one more thing, methinks.

[LNER4479]

Yes, Innocentman's etched parts also included the smoke deflectors! Will be a great improvement on the w/m parts with the kit.

 

Just one fettled and test fitted for now - it's getting a bit late! (although kept going by the Rolling Stones in Hyde Park)

 

Will endeavour to carry on working on the loco over the rest of the holiday period, see how close we can get it to 'finished'. But for now ...

 

That's all folks!

[LNER4479]

Trying my best to maintain progress with the Patriot.

 

Front frame pieces required to improve the front end look. Here, I've cut a template piece out of 10 thou plasticard.

 

Then glued to two pieces of 15thou n/s and attacked with the piercing saw.

 

Tinned and then affixed with the low-melt iron.

 

As well as filling the unsightly gap, they provide an anchor point for the all important front guard irons, a common feature of Fowler locos and a key component of the front end look.

 

Last night, it was time to tackle the handrail knobs etc. Seen here in position but not yet affixed.

 

Hopefully should get more done over next few days ...

 

[LNER4479]

Bit more progress last night.

 

Additional details being added: sandbox tops; reversing rod; tall box at the front of the cab that no-one's quite sure what it does. Destructions refer to it as 'injector box'? All I know is that the EJECTOR steam pipe comes out the front of it 

 

Talking of which. This thing was a right s0d to make up. The w/m casting at the heart of it largely disintegrated upon my merely looking at it so I've ended up lashing it together from odds n sods so that it has some vague passing resemblance to pictures (no two of which appear to be identical)

 

Anyway, as temporarily assembled doesn't look too bad? This and main handrails are removable for painting.

 

And the all important front end look. Note addition of lamp brackets, vac pipe and coupling hook. Might add something to the front of the bogie as it looks a bit bare from this viewpoint?

 

 

[Michael Edge]

The box in front of the LH side of the cab contains the reversing gear. This was just about the only bit inherited from the Claughtons which actually formed part of the Patriots which were nominally rebuilt from them. Inside the cab there is the LNW reverser wheel set horizontally at the level of the top of the box, inside the box is a vertical rocker transferring the motion down to the MR position reach rod.

[LNER4479]

So definitely not the 'injector box' then? 🤭

 

(I was only kidding - I knew what it was really ... honest 😆)

[Michael Edge]

Certainly nothing to do with the injectors....

The ejector pipe goes into a manifold inside the cab.

This fragment of the GA shows the LNW reverser wheel and the pipe from the ejector, one branch up to the brake handle, the other down under the floor.

[LNER4479]

I do declare that the body be completed 🤩

 

As usual, I can't resist a bit of detail. I drilled the holes through side-to-side on the main lubricators, with 5amp fuse wire serving as the lubricator pipes. Yes, I know it should be 6 per side but it gives an impression.

 

And here she (he?) is. Other final details include:

Smaller lubricator boxes (including those on the side of the middle splashers, hiding a hole which the destructions claimed to be where the shifting valves were mounted - really?!);

Grab rails on the lower front part of the smoke deflectors;

Whistle;

Grab rails below cab window;

Backhead and driver's seat within the cab (trust me)

 

I have to say that I'm not displeased with the overall effect, despite the shortcomings of the base kit (Millholme). The etched parts help no end 😉

 

Just need to get it working now!