Hills of the North - The Last Great Project

[LNER4479]

Delighted to host 92220 of this parish (and Camden fame) at the show today who was duly commandeered to man Shap summit box - he might even have enjoyed himself. As well as his stock that already runs on the layout, he brought one or two prized items to test out on the bank.

 

Like this! Camden's finest makes light work up the bank with the Caledonian. (a DJH kit build)

 

And does a good job of emulating 'Sir's classic 46245 summit shot.

 

Another notable visitor was rebuilt Jubilee 45735 'Comet', painstakingly recreated from a Bachmann Jubilee.

 

Jonathan hasn't been idle either. This is his brand new early 1950s goods which now takes its place at the start of the sequence. It ran beautifully all day.

 

Meanwhile ...

 

 

The LMS are coming! More pix tomorrow, all being well😉

 

 

[92220]

It was a great pleasure and a privilege to come today Graham.  Thank you for having me as part of the select team, and for running part of my collection of locos which mainly had significant relevance to Shap.  Really enjoyed my debut not only on Shap but as a show operator at all.  It was nice to get a few comments about the locos from those attending too.  
 

46245 - in fact not DJH but a Hornby body with Comet frames, complete Comet tender, plenty of lead and a lot of detailing.  I ought to have straightened the front coupling, and got it lamped, crewed, coaled and weathered,  But you’d say that about most of mine to be honest.  It ran well up the bank on the Caledonian, which didn’t tax it too much.

 

 

 

 

45375 Comet - as you said!

 

 

44687 got plenty of interest too.  But the star of the show was the entire layout, both in vision and execution.

 

 

 

I missed filming 70044, 45584, 44684. 42110 did plenty of banking and 46146 has stripped its gears and has come back for heavy general.  

 

But this compilation includes:

 

46239 on a northbound express

46245 on the Caledonian

45735 on another northbound express 
44687 on cement

73139 on parcels

45027 on the Lakes express

92220 on the rail tour usually hauled by Clun Castle 

92056 on fitted freight

 

Thanks again for a great day.  I’ll tidy up a couple more photos and videos too.

 

Best wishes,

 

Iain

Edited October 22, 2022 by 92220

[LNER4479]

Fablious video, Iain(!) Thanks for taking time to compile n post. And apologies for mis-identifying origin of '45 - I should pay more attention!

[92220]

Not at all Graham - you had more than enough to occupy the mind!

Hope today goes well.

Iain

[LNER4479]

OK, so some more details of the LMS trains:

 

Of course, you've seen this train already ...

 

... but it now takes its place as the 'curtain raiser' for the exhibition sequence.

 

Cresting the summit effortlessly, as you would expect.

 

Coming the other way is the result of much midnight oil in the lead up to the show - the 1937 Midday Scot. With the introduction of the streamlined train, the Midday Scot was completely re-cast into a most interesting train.

 

The lead 5 coaches form the core of the train and is in fact an Edinburgh-Euston service (the Coro Scot being the Glasgow service). It's a mere 5-coach formation with BTKs at either end.

 

Of most interest are the catering pair, a PdII SFO, providing the first class dining - a Barry O project for the train - coupled to a Stanier Rest Third - a Comet body on a Dapol (Hornby) underframe (me)

 

Thereafter, the train was made up of various portions and through coaches, meaning a high proportion of brake vehicles. Here is a classic BTK + CK formation, followed (R-->L)  by the long time Glasgow-Plymouth through coach.

 

This is the other project vehicle towards the back of the train - an original condition PdII BCK (Dia.1720). Now the secret is out, I'll post some pix separately of how it was done.

 

As you might detect, this is all still very much 'work in progress' - Taunton was the chance for a first run where it generally behaved OK. A few ride height issues to attend to in addition to actually finishing off the project vehicles fully, including a further brake vehicle (!)

 

Finally, another look at Jonathan's new train in a classic setting.

 

If you caught us at Taunton then you'll have already seen these new trains; otherwise, then maybe see them at Manchester show in December, followed by York at Easter next year.

Edited October 25, 2022 by LNER4479

[Barry O]

Nice to see the Midday  Scot coming together. 

 

The SFO uses Mousa etches. I have another set to build for use on my own layout.

 

Hope the journey back went well.

 

Baz

Edited October 24, 2022 by Barry O
tablet plus pudgy fingers speelung!

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Barry O said:

Nice to see the Midday Cot coming together. 

 

The SFO uses Mousa etches. I have another set to build for usen9n my own layout.

 

Hope the journey back went well.

 

Baz

Ideal for a lunchtime nap...

[jwealleans]

On 22/10/2022 at 18:19, chris p bacon said:

On 22/10/2022 at 18:12, Barry O said:

I didn't realise that Mr and Mrs Wealleans were experts in wire strangling.....

I bet they didn't either....

 

Well, you're not wrong, either of you.   It was a weekend and that's a fact.   How we'll laugh in years to come.   There had been other lapses in memory too, as will become clear...

 

Saturday morning was a bit of a struggle, but once we got into the swing of it (and I relearned how it worked) it all chugged along quite nicely.   Everyone's natural good humour was restored:

 

 

 

Note the extempore scenery behind Andrew (thanks to Cheltenham Model Centre for their kind donation of an empty box).  I imagine this bit is also with the cables somewhere.

 

 

Red Leader could muster a smile too.  In fact he and I have both gone synchronised full teapot here - I'm not quite sure what that indicates.

 

 

Good to meet Iain and although they were foreign to a man he did bring some nice looking engines.  He's doing a good impression of enjoying it here.  Rachel, our other Saturday visitor and highly competent operator, seems to have dodged the camera completely, sadly.

 

 

In case anyone's wondering, all those wires (10 of them, roughly 12 metres each) went through that little hole just up and right of centre and vanished somewhere down the other end where by the power of thought and electrickery and the magic of Andrew's soldering iron they made it all work.   We are not worthy.

 

Sunday morning is traditionally for photography. 

 

 

 

Here we are recording those wagons.    I can't claim any credit for hard work or recent midnight oil here - they were all built for use elsewhere and those tractors have been wandering East Anglia for years.

 

 

 

Anyone's guess how they've ended up going up Shap Bank.

 

 

Some LNER built stock adds that touch of class.

 

 

 

If you've not been (and it is a long way from a lot of places), the venue is a cut above some I shall refrain from naming:

 

 

 

Finally, Graham has been much too modest to mention this, but having had nothing whatsoever to do with the creation of the whole thing, I shall do so with no fear of blowing my own trumpet.  The club were kind enough to award him the Chairman's Shield.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by jwealleans

[Tony Wright]

The weekend seems to have gone well, and congratulations on winning the Taunton Shield. 

 

Could two 46245s run on Shap?

 

 

 

 

 

Graham, as you know this is a DJH kit (painted by Geoff Haynes). 

 

If you recall its construction was published in the RM in April 2020, to coincide with the York Show. Covid put the mockers on that. 

 

Seeing that Shap is at York next Easter, you're more than welcome to borrow this CITY OF LONDON again (and any other ex-LMS locos I've built).

 

Once again, well done, though I don't envy you the travelling. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Ramblin Rich]

Really enjoyed watching the trains on Saturday morning. The theatrical type 'impressionistic' presentation is very convincing and (most) of the trains ran well. There seemed to be an issue with an EE Type 4 needing 'assistance' while we watched - possibly matching real life, apart from the large hands descending! The banker locomotive operation worked well too and our lad was most impressed with the way the main trains carried on and the banker dropped off. All just as you always intended it to work, but still good to see it in reality.

[92220]

A shorter video of two of HotN’s deservedly popular trains, firstly a Crosti 8F on a train of car flats built on the underframes of ex LMS carriages, with banking help from one of the Fairburn 2-6-4 tanks, and then the down early 50s Royal Scot with 46223 in charge.

 

 

A couple more photos, please excuse the quality or lack thereof.

 

 

 

Iain

[Enterprisingwestern]

7 hours ago, 92220 said:

A shorter video of two of HotN’s deservedly popular trains, firstly a Crosti 8F on a train of car flats built on the underframes of ex LMS carriages, with banking help from one of the Fairburn 2-6-4 tanks, and then the down early 50s Royal Scot with 46223 in charge.

 

 

A couple more photos, please excuse the quality or lack thereof.

 

 

 

Iain

 

As impressive as Shap is, that car train, banker and all, is even more impressiver!

 

Mike.

[LNER4479]

On 24/10/2022 at 21:06, Tony Wright said:

 

Could two 46245s run on Shap?

 

Seeing that Shap is at York next Easter, you're more than welcome to borrow this CITY OF LONDON again (and any other ex-LMS locos I've built).

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Thanks Tony. Iain's 46245 was just there for the day so, unless he's planning to grace us with his presence at York then there shouldn't be a 'battle of the '45's (oblique Jacobite rebellion reference in there somewhere?). Even if both were there, we'd give them both a run in any case (but not at the same time!). I would of course be delighted to host your 46245 again at York, thanks very much for the offer.

 

On 24/10/2022 at 21:56, Ramblin Rich said:

Really enjoyed watching the trains on Saturday morning. The theatrical type 'impressionistic' presentation is very convincing and (most) of the trains ran well. There seemed to be an issue with an EE Type 4 needing 'assistance' while we watched - possibly matching real life, apart from the large hands descending! The banker locomotive operation worked well too and our lad was most impressed with the way the main trains carried on and the banker dropped off. All just as you always intended it to work, but still good to see it in reality.

Glad you enjoyed the show, Rich. The dear old Jouef EE Type 4 on the oil train did take most of Saturday to settle down. Tom (who wasn't able to be at Taunton) churns out oil tank wagons for fun and there are considerably more than we need. Added to which is that the Std Class 4MT 4-6-0 that banks that train is just a little too 'keen' and was attempting to push too many of the wagons, leading to derailments at the rear of the train. By a gradual, iterative process (of trying different combination of wagons), we did eventually get to a stable formation by lunchtime Sunday ...

(I took some photos of the 'winning' combination so we can hopefully hit the ground running a bit more at Manchester)

 

16 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

As impressive as Shap is, that car train, banker and all, is even more impressiver!

 

Mike.

Thanks, Mike. It's certainly a crowd pleaser, whilst being based absolutely on a prototype (1967) photo. I'm sure most will already be aware, but the cars depicted all represent products from the Halewood Ford plant on Merseyside, being sent to the Scottish distribution centre at Bathgate (Edinburgh). Plenty of pictures exist of these trains both over Shap and on the Waverley route. Some of our cars are arguably a little too kaleidoscopic - most prototype pics show the cars to be predominantly white or pale blue - but, hey, rule 1 and all that.

 

All in all, whilst we had a pretty rough start to the show (mea culpa), the layout subsequently settled down and seem to go down well. Looking ahead now very much to the Manchester show - those who know me will know that's very much a 'home' show for me. I have quite a list of various tweaks and improvements between now and then; meanwhile, Andrew has the fiddle yard in his tender care to (hopefully!) finish off his remaining wiring work.

 

So, less than seven weeks to go before we do it all again!

[Michael Edge]

We have the same banking operation (but with every train) on Wentworth Junction with the same occasional mismatch of loco speeds. If the banker is running too fast just slowing the whole train down usually avoids any problems. Admittedly this is easier on the Worsborough where trains were often only going at walking pace but I didn't see a singke derailment of a banked train during the whole weekend at Leeds. We get told all the time that "you can't do banking without DCC".......

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

We have the same banking operation (but with every train) on Wentworth Junction with the same occasional mismatch of loco speeds. If the banker is running too fast just slowing the whole train down usually avoids any problems. Admittedly this is easier on the Worsborough where trains were often only going at walking pace but I didn't see a singke derailment of a banked train during the whole weekend at Leeds. We get told all the time that "you can't do banking without DCC".......

You can do (almost) anything either with or without DCC. Some things are easier one way, some things the other.

[Barry Ten]

17 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

 

 

All in all, whilst we had a pretty rough start to the show (mea culpa), the layout subsequently settled down and seem to go down well. Looking ahead now very much to the Manchester show - those who know me will know that's very much a 'home' show for me. I have quite a list of various tweaks and improvements between now and then; meanwhile, Andrew has the fiddle yard in his tender care to (hopefully!) finish off his remaining wiring work.

 

So, less than seven weeks to go before we do it all again!

 

@wenlockand I will be there with Dave's 7mm Sherton Abbas this year, our furthest trip north by a considerable margin. I'm very much looking forward to seeing Shap in the flesh.

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

 

@wenlockand I will be there with Dave's 7mm Sherton Abbas this year, our furthest trip north by a considerable margin. I'm very much looking forward to seeing Shap in the flesh.

 

I do hope you will at least wear underpants?

 

Mike.

 

 

[LNER4479]

Anyway, about this coach:

 

 

If you were paying attention a couple of months ago ... (I know at least Clive was)

 

This was the starting point. Two Hornby (Dapol) 12-wheel restaurant cars, an old Airfix 60ft chassis and the bogies from a Hornby 57ft chassis. That sounds a bit extravagent right off the bat, but one of the restuarant car chassis is now under the Stanier 12-wheel diner seen in the LMS train, the old Airfix Stanier coaches are a bit too crude without some upgrade work and newer Hornby coaches ... well, I've picked up a few reasonably cheaply and it's good to mix n match the vehicle types. In modern parlance 'repurposing'.

 

I'm not exactly sure how Clive goes about cutting and shutting his projects, but this is how I figured it out:

 

First job is a careful cut with the knife right under the gutter, taking special care under the vents as there's not much material there. Doesn't have to go right through - the plastic is quite soft so will bend the rest of the way. End cuts are rough saw cuts as they're away from where any final joins will be.

 

From the 4 side pieces we have, then some further rough cuts to get the pieces we need.

 

The final cuts are then made using the square along the bottom edge and making a perpendicular cut to bring the piece to its final length ready for re-joining. Bottom right, you can see a piece with a vertical 'first pass' cut with the knife - it's then just a case of following that line with successive, deeper cuts until, again, you can bend and discard the waste piece. Doors are easy - there's a gap anyway that can be followed.

 

Bottom left, I'm then using scrap plasticard pieces to reinforce the new joins. Where a door is involved, the adjacent piece has its cut end tidied up so that the gap with the door is maintained. Otherwise, the pieces are left as they are, the idea being that any excess plastic will get fused as part of the join - when left to harden overnight, this can then be carefully dressed to hopefully achieve a smooth finish without filler.

 

Now beginning to shape up quite nicely. You can see the general arrangement of the vehicle, ie (L - R): brake compartment, four third class bays, toilet, two first class bays. The donor catering cars are of course composites so the window spacings on the panels is about right.

 

Meanwhile the roof has a central section cut out, equidistant, such that when butted back up again, the line of the rain strip is preserved (more or less). The roof detail is, of course, way out!

 

And now we have ourselves a kit ready for reassembly. Note the filling pieces applied to create blank luggage doors, parcels end and block off corridor side vents.

 

To reattach, again some more scrap plasticard pieces are used to strengthen the join wherever possible. Never throw anything away.

 

Jumping on a little bit, the body has been reassembled and some of the roof detail is being attended to. Filler (Milliput) has been used on some of the joins but overall the fit was not too bad. One key aspect though is that the donor catering vehicles were steel sided whereas the target vehicle was wooden panelled and therefore beaded. So the plasticard strips shown here are for the more noticeable aspects of the beading. I didn't do it all, just enough to hopefully create the illusion. I've also fashioned some guards duckets from the plasticard.

 

Posed over the relevant picture in the Jenkinson tome, on the one hand you can (hopefully) see how a layer of paint hides a multitude of sins, whilst on the other see the short-comings. It would appear that the window ventilators should be longer (same length as the toilet one) and the roof ventilator arrangement is a bit of a fantasy (albeit with the most obvious anomalies removed. There must have been a water filler arrangement to get to the toilet tank.

 

And now shod with the decent Hornby bogies, lined and lettered, we have a passable (I think?) representation of a PdII Dia.1720 BCK in original condition. Those who are into their kit building will know that Comet (Wizard) do etched sides for the Dia. 1720a version of this vehicle (ie re-skinned with Stanier sides) but I believe that took place later than 1937 so I have something a little different here? It's possible that the application of the later, simplified lining style (as depicted here) may not be correct for the vehicle in this condition, but - hey ...

 

Still needs more underframe detail, glazing, interior completing to finish it off to required standard. According to the Carter LMS formations book, there was a single BCK in the rake from Manchester to Edinburgh (attached / detached at Lancaster). Can't be sure about the type but the idea is to have the main portion of the train (London-Edinburgh) as the 'posh' part, with the rest a bit of a rag-bag, using some older vehicles - classic 1930s LMS.

 

I've been in touch with Allan at Sankey Scenics and he is doing me a complete set of roof boards for this train - and in fact all the remaining Shap rakes for which there is no ready pack in his range. Splendid service and should be a nice little extra 'touch' for the Manchester show.

 

Coaches are fun, aren't they?

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by LNER4479

[St Enodoc]

Very Clive-ish, apart from the paint finish...

[Flying Fox 34F]

Graham,

 

You might find there is no pipe work on the roof for the toilet tank.  It was far more common to have a man on the roof filling the tank with a convenient hose at a larger station.  Certain lack of Health and Safety back then.

 

Paul

[LNER4479]

Funnily enough Paul, I've come to pretty much the same conclusion myself, having a more detailed look through the Jenkinson book. Plenty of steps and attendant grab rails at the end to get up on the roof. Presumably some sort of filler cap above the tank ... or was even that a flush fitting? The great Mr Jenkinson appears silent on the matter?

[stewartingram]

Clive won't like that conversion - it has been painted!

[Barry O]

6 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Funnily enough Paul, I've come to pretty mu versions..

 

Bazch the same conclusion myself, having a more detailed look through the Jenkinson book. Plenty of steps and attendant grab rails at the end to get up on the roof. Presumably some sort of filler cap above the tank ... or was even that a flush fitting? The great Mr Jenkinson appears silent on the matter?

There is a D1720a vehicle in the Lakes set on Shap RedLeader.

 

Baz

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Graham,

 

The cutting and shutting looks good. I haven't done a D1720 as they were all reclad as D1720a. Mine is still a long way off from being finished.

Yes I know the roof should be like Red Leader's model, one of the many jobs to do......one day.

[LNER4479]

53 minutes ago, Barry O said:

There is a D1720a vehicle in the Lakes set on Shap RedLeader.

 

Baz

Indeed - 'twas your good self who first pointed out the Stanier re-skinning programme of earlier vehicles. Don't you have about 5 Dia.1720a's in total?