OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie

[Adrock]

1 hour ago, gwrrob said:

 

They're actually 20 sheets but still a good price.

Nope, actually £18 as a discount was auto applied once in the basket. 

[Adrock]

On 26/12/2020 at 19:15, Henry 84F said:

My partner gifted me with a Dapol mogul yesterday - BR early green and DCC fitted. I think it's a lovely model: both the detailing and the application of the livery are excellent. The tender is not very free-rolling. I'm yet to investigate whether this is the pickups against the wheels or the back-to-backs of the tender wheels. This does not detract from its haulage capabilities: the mogul handled a train of 8 mixed newer Hornby Colletts and Staniers very well. I don't know much about DCC decoders I'm afraid and the extent that the Zimo included with this contributes to its smooth running. Its slow speed is a bit of let-down: jumping from stationary to what I expect is a scale speed of about 4 or 5 mph. Slow speed after that however is smooth. Apart from this, it's a superb model and a great addition to the collection. The tender connection is particularly excellent. I do hope Dapol continue with their own Prairie as there are a few shortcomings in Hornby's that they have chance to address. I also look forward to the Manor: if it's as good as this Mogul and, if they factor in feedback from this model, then we're in for some real treats. 

 

Merry Christmas.

Henry 

 

 

 

I can confirm it is the pickups that cause the tender to not free-run. As part of my tender conversion, I have just taken the pick ups out and it runs freely like a wagon. 
 

Pics here are before (following strip-down) and after, with removed pickups and a hole cut out for the Bachmann Collett goods drawbar. 
 

Edited December 27, 2020 by Adrock

[melmerby]

4 hours ago, Adrock said:

I can confirm it is the pickups that cause the tender to not free-run. As part of my tender conversion, I have just taken the pick ups out and it runs freely like a wagon. 
 

They should have done what Bachmann do in a number of their tenders with pickups.

They have a split axle wheelset and the contacts press on the axles, where there is a lot less friction

Pressing on the flange is just wrong.

 

Here's one that had the split axles but no pickups, I've converted to pickups (and decoder socket in tender)

 

You can just see the phosphor bronze wires poking through from the doublesided copperclad board in the tender which has the interconnecting socket and an 8 pin decoder socket.

This runs quite freely

 

[gwrrob]

I was asked to shew a comparison with my old filthy Bachmann Mogul , so here it is. Nearly thirty years between purchases.

 

[57xx]

Running on the test track some more, I got up to 20 wagons (all at least 30g each) behind it. Using the Load simulator on the controller I was actually able to get smooth starts both forwards and backwards. Crawling speed was a bit more stuttery with the bigger wagon load on the back, this is really where a better gearbox ratio would come into play (along with the limited useful speed range).

[Adrock]

15 hours ago, melmerby said:

They should have done what Bachmann do in a number of their tenders with pickups.

They have a split axle wheelset and the contacts press on the axles, where there is a lot less friction

Pressing on the flange is just wrong.

 

Here's one that had the split axles but no pickups, I've converted to pickups (and decoder socket in tender)

 

You can just see the phosphor bronze wires poking through from the doublesided copperclad board in the tender which has the interconnecting socket and an 8 pin decoder socket.

This runs quite freely

 

Looks great that...is that a Bachmann Collett 3,000 gal tender by any chance?

 

ive finished my tender connection modifications - still to test run on the track, but measurements are all spot on with the original and the blacks are a superb match. 
 

 

[melmerby]

2 minutes ago, Adrock said:

Looks great that...is that a Bachmann Collett 3,000 gal tender by any chance?

 

 

Not sure.

I've cobbled several Bachmann & Mainline tenders, such that they are now hybrids of each other.

IIRC it originally came from a Bachmann Manor, the drop in slots for the wheels have been plugged and the original wheel retainers cut off

[gwrrob]

Talking of the tender as has anyone else noticed it's impossible to fit some fire irons correctly in it due to the moulding strengtheners.

[melmerby]

On 28/12/2020 at 15:21, gwrrob said:

Talking of the tender as has anyone else noticed it's impossible to fit some fire irons correctly in it due to the moulding strengtheners.

Should be easy enough to remove, though.

The tender side doesn't look unusually thin, so I can't see why they're there.

[melmerby]

After spending many hours tweaking the CVs I have now got my Mogul running reasonable well.

It's still not completely jerk free at a slow crawl but better than it was.

I see-sawed the Vtop and PWM reference voltage CVs to get a reasonable top speed but with the smooth running.

I reset CV9 back to 0, as it seemed to be slightly smoother at the bottom end, than with the recommended 55.

I had to juggle the speed curve somewhat to get a decent straight response for use with Traincontroller.

Top speed is still a little high at 80mph but I can live with that.

[JST]

Interesting. As I said before, mine is a factory sound fitted version which ran perfectly straight out of the box. Top speed is about 70mph. I will quiz the decoder on the basic CV settings to see what they did.

[melmerby]

18 hours ago, melmerby said:

After spending many hours tweaking the CVs I have now got my Mogul running reasonable well.

It's still not completely jerk free at a slow crawl but better than it was.

I see-sawed the Vtop and PWM reference voltage CVs to get a reasonable top speed but with the smooth running.

I reset CV9 back to 0, as it seemed to be slightly smoother at the bottom end, than with the recommended 55.

I had to juggle the speed curve somewhat to get a decent straight response for use with Traincontroller.

Top speed is still a little high at 80mph but I can live with that.

Oh Dear, I seem to be back to square one.

Just tried running with a long train and with the reference voltage reduced the power is down, so much so that it slows right down on my gradient to maybe 25mph when on 75mph setting (it's not slipping). Had to increase the CV back to 0 (default max) to get the power back to normal, so more re-profiling needed.

[john dew]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

Oh Dear, I seem to be back to square one.

Just tried running with a long train and with the reference voltage reduced the power is down, so much so that it slows right down on my gradient to maybe 25mph when on 75mph setting (it's not slipping). Had to increase the CV back to 0 (default max) to get the power back to normal, so more re-profiling needed.

 

Hi Keith

 

For comparison purposes here are my CV settings for the Zimo 617 N18 and a screen snap of the TC Speed Profile

 

2   : 1   3:  1   4: 1   5:  90   6:   50   29:  34   57  :   125

 

 

 

I suspect thats a bit slow for you but I rarely go above 30mph on Granby

 

I havent done a huge amount of testing.....I am in the throes of weathering them (I was sufficiently impressed to buy a second).......but they do haul 4 Collet Suburbans up a curved gradient at a scale 10 mph

 

Best Wishes

 

John

[melmerby]

The problem I have had, apart from jittery when very slow running is the curve that the MX618N18 seems to possess which is like an "S" in Train  controller. (A MX600R in another loco is exactly the same.)

So for the first time ever with a decent make of decoder I have had to employ the custom speed curve to correct it.

If the PCB for the decoder wasn't so expensive (£32) I would buy one and solder in a Lenz Silver mini to try.

[john dew]

9 minutes ago, melmerby said:

The problem I have had, apart from jittery when very slow running is the curve that the MX618N18 seems to possess which is like an "S" in Train  controller. (A MX600R in another loco is exactly the same.)

So for the first time ever with a decent make of decoder I have had to employ the custom speed curve to correct it.

If the PCB for the decoder wasn't so expensive (£32) I would buy one and solder in a Lenz Silver mini to try.

 

That happened with me the first time I profiled the mogul. I came to the conclusion I had muddled up CV 29 Bit 4  (Lenz Bit 5 !)* and inadvertently deactivated the speed table created by CVs 2,5 and 6

 

* I read the CV values with the Lenz throttle and have to remember the numbering is different.

 

Like you, I have been very impressed with Zimo and this is the first time with them I have had a hiccup.....fortunately its now sorted.  

[melmerby]

1 minute ago, john dew said:

 

 

 

Like you, I have been very impressed with Zimo and this is the first time with them I have had a hiccup.....fortunately its now sorted.  

They have a  good range of "budget decoders" at around £20 or less

Mind you I bought some Lenz Silver Mini + (wires) for £17:50 ea from DC Kits a couple of weeks ago.

[Miss Prism]

48 minutes ago, melmerby said:

The problem I have had, apart from jittery when very slow running is the curve that the MX618N18 seems to possess which is like an "S" in Train  controller. (A MX600R in another loco is exactly the same.)

So for the first time ever with a decent make of decoder I have had to employ the custom speed curve to correct it.

If the PCB for the decoder wasn't so expensive (£32) I would buy one and solder in a Lenz Silver mini to try.

 

Remind me - how much was a Romford 40:1 gear set back in the day? A few bob?

 

[john dew]

Slight change of subject:

 

Spare Lamp Irons?

 

There dont appear to be any on the Model

 

Assuming they were fitted to the prototype could someone advise where they were located?

 

I am guessing LH side below smokebox?

 

Still with Lamp Irons.....the rear lower irons on the tender are part of the buffer beam and consequently finished in red...........or were !

[Miss Prism]

For the painting of the rear irons on the tender, see:

http://www.gwr.org.uk/tenders/cot-tender-rear2-small.jpg

which are 'half red' and 'half black'.

 

I'm not sure how historically authentic this is, but it makes sense.

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by Miss Prism

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi John, on the prototype they were located on the LH side near the firebox in front of the cab.

 

Cheers, Ade.

[St Enodoc]

When mine arrives it will be fitted with an ESU LokPilot 5 micro DCC Next 18. Has anyone got any tips for CV settings on one of these please?

[Neal Ball]

There have been various comments about outside steam pipes throughout the thread. People refer to a book, to shew when these were fitted etc.

 

Can someone advise which book they are talking about please. 
 

A few moguls were based at Reading in the 1930’s and I intend to renumber mine to suit. But need the correct reference.

 

Thanks, Neal.

[Chuffer Davies]

42 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

There have been various comments about outside steam pipes throughout the thread. People refer to a book, to shew when these were fitted etc.

 

Can someone advise which book they are talking about please. 
 

A few moguls were based at Reading in the 1930’s and I intend to renumber mine to suit. But need the correct reference.

 

Thanks, Neal.

Hi Neal,

I think you will find that 'the book' is actually a series of paperbacks which many consider to be the definitive reference for Great Western modellers.  They are:  The Locomotives of the Great Western Railway series.  The one that the moguls appear in is:

 

There is a table of allocations which includes a column for when outside steam pipes were fitted to specific locomotives.

 

The books are long out of print but can usually be obtained 2nd hand from most specialist railway book suppliers.

 

Frank

[Harlequin]

1 hour ago, Neal Ball said:

There have been various comments about outside steam pipes throughout the thread. People refer to a book, to shew when these were fitted etc.

 

Can someone advise which book they are talking about please. 
 

A few moguls were based at Reading in the 1930’s and I intend to renumber mine to suit. But need the correct reference.

 

Thanks, Neal.

 

Hi Neal,

 

The book that Clearwater and I were referring to is, "Great Western Moguls & Prairies" by David Maidment, published by Pen & Sword.

 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

 

Hi Neal,

 

The book that Clearwater and I were referring to is, "Great Western Moguls & Prairies" by David Maidment, published by Pen & Sword.

 

No doubt cribbed from RCTS part nine.