OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie

[MG 7305]

I suspect that the GWR series are of a time and this by no means is meant to run them down.  Indeed they are the ones I return to time after time and they are only matched by the 3 Peto books (Kings, Manors and 48/58xx).   The team who wrote them knew the detail, indeed one of them (Fleming) was involved in building at least one locomotive.  Books of the period did not expand to the extent that books of today do and the modern market desires.  Photographic portfolios are now available as they were not when the series was published.  Indeed I suspect that the market at the time could and did know much of the detail because they saw the the locomotives every time they went to the lineside.  Modern books do not cover the full history of GWR locomotives, for example, and I am no expert, where is the modern equivalent of Part 3, Absorbed Engines, 1854-1921?   Indeed modern books concentrate on the period 1920? onwards and apart from 2 or 3 photographers much later than that.  Modern books seem to be focused on the Churchward and later locomotives with an emphasis on preserved classes.  For the full picture go for the RCTS books.

[Les1952]

The one I do cherish, having almost worn my copy out, is part ten, Absorbed engines 1922-1947 which is a useful reference point for a lot of otherwise quite obscure locos.  The inclusion of works numbers does at least help trace locos to details available elsewhere, particularly the publications of the Industrial railway Society.

 

Les

[PeteN92]

Has anyone heard when the sound fitted versions are due ? 

 

Cheers 

 

Pete

[melmerby]

On 31/12/2020 at 16:39, JST said:

Melmerby,

 

Here are some more CVs (up to 094) which may or may not be of help. Sorry about the clunky way of doing it but the Dell Windows 10 computer on which I run Railmaster is in the railway loft and my Mac is here in the office so I just took photos of the Dell screen

Hi again, thanks for the screen grabs.

Can you confirm CV 70 is 0? It shouldn't be as it is in the middle of the speed table.

 

So fasr, there are quite a few differences between your factory set CVs and either the Zimo recommendations or the ones I have arrived at. (excluding sound settings)

Looks like a difficult loco to tame.

 

Also could I trouble you again to take some shots of CVs 20-40?

Thank you in anticipation

[JST]

CV70 is 13 and CV71 is 16. I will go up to the railway loft later, fire up the system and get the 20 to 40 readings later.

 

Cheers

 

John

[melmerby]

20 minutes ago, JST said:

CV70 is 13 and CV71 is 16. I will go up to the railway loft later, fire up the system and get the 20 to 40 readings later.

 

Cheers

 

John

Yes, sorry I misread them

The value for CV71 on the bottom of the 2nd screenshot doesn't show anything, but the top one of 3rd screen does.

I thought we were missing a value - silly me.

 

[JST]

It is because You have to ask Railmaster to read a specific range of CVs and if you don't include a CV in the range it shows as 000. I didn't include CVV71 when I first read read them. Sorry for the confusion.

 

John

[melmerby]

3 minutes ago, JST said:

It is because You have to ask Railmaster to read a specific range of CVs and if you don't include a CV in the range it shows as 000. I didn't include CVV71 when I first read read them. Sorry for the confusion.

 

John

OK I see now, I was not familiar with the operation of Railmaster.

I use DecoderPro for managing loco CVs and they are kept in a file for each loco which can be viewed at any time, either in total or groups of CVs pertinent to certain operations.

 

[The Stationmaster]

Has anybody had trouble with wheels lifting on 'problematic' track due to the rigid coupling between the engine and tender?

[Izzy]

Interesting cv settings, reflecting the quite low gearing ratio I feel. cv3 at 60 and cv9/56 both at 95. The speed curve keeps a gentle low curve until steps 17/18/19 and then shoots up for the last few. Really don't understand the design ethos behind the low gearing for such a (relatively) large wheel dia. I'm obviously missing something. But there, it is what it is. At least DCC users have a chance to tune it better to their individual tastes within the constraints imposed.

[JST]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

OK I see now, I was not familiar with the operation of Railmaster.

I use DecoderPro for managing loco CVs and they are kept in a file for each loco which can be viewed at any time, either in total or groups of CVs pertinent to certain operations.

 

 

Herewith the screenshot for CVs 20 to 40. Hope this helps.  Railmaster also stores the CVs for each loco but you have to ask it to read them first.

 

My experience with the Mogul has lead me to think that I will be pre-ordering a Dapol Manor but only when the factory fitted sound model is available. The sound fitted Mogul was £128 more expensive than the non DCC fitted version. When you consider that a sound chip is about £100 plus two speakers, I don't think that is an over the top price for fitting a well sorted sound project decoder and the speakers.

[melmerby]

Excellent.

Thank you again.

I can now do a detailed comparison as to how it has been set up and compare to mine, hopefully getting a better performance.

[JST]

No problem. Let us know if you manage to improve things.

[melmerby]

6 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Has anybody had trouble with wheels lifting on 'problematic' track due to the rigid coupling between the engine and tender?

Hi Mike

If I have the loco on level track I can lift the tender front about 1mm with resepect to the loco, I can only just lift the loco rear with respect to the tender by enough to just see clearance under the rear loco wheels i.e. not a lot.

I haven't however had any problems with running over my trackwork.

[melmerby]

I have perused the CVs posted courtesy of JSTs screen grabs of an ex-factory settings for his Mogul.

IMHO it is a bit of a strange setup.

All bits in CV29 set to 0 which means:

 

3 point curve speed set (= 1, 100, 200)

Speed Steps set to 14

Train Direction normal

DC disabled

Railcom disabled

Using short address (CV1= 85)

 

However I notice CV 57, (Voltage reference) is set to 66, e.g. only 6.6v amplitude applied to the motor at max speed.

When CV57 =0, track voltage is applied to motor, any other setting sets a maximum (n.b. this is the amplitude of the PWM pulses)

When I tried reducing it on mine the power dropped off noticably below a vulue of 100, or 10v, so 6.6v seems odd.

 

There are several other motor tweaks amongst the settings, so I'll check them all out on mine and see how it goes.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mallard60022]

On 02/01/2021 at 11:35, The Stationmaster said:

Has anybody had trouble with wheels lifting on 'problematic' track due to the rigid coupling between the engine and tender?

I'll check tomorrow Mike, as I have only run mine on one main line. I shall go and play with it on some 'less well laid' areas of the mains.

Phil

[St Enodoc]

56 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

some 'less well laid' areas of the mains

Surely not?????

[B10M]

On 27/12/2020 at 14:12, Adrock said:

The black treatment really takes this to another level and makes it look closer to a Bachmann engine. How have you done the wheels and buffers, masked or used a brush by hand? Would you kindly let me know what paint you have used too please, as it looks a good match for the wheel centres...

 

thanks

Further to my previous quote I have a fair few more pics if you'd like them ?

[melmerby]

Right.

I have transferred the values from JST's mogul, as is, to my mogul.

Result, a bit smoother at the bottom end but a horrid acceleration graph and a max top speed of 47mph with Train Controller.

It has also reduced it's haulage capacity somewhat.

So back to my original tinkering...................

[melmerby]

Disaster!

Whilst tweaking the speed steps for speed profiling it has died on me.

I can still read and write CVs with Decoder Pro but there is absolutely no motor response. (Oh and the smokebox dart fell out as well)

Have to leave it now as have things to do.

[JST]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

Disaster!

Whilst tweaking the speed steps for speed profiling it has died on me.

I can still read and write CVs with Decoder Pro but there is absolutely no motor response. (Oh and the smokebox dart fell out as well)

Have to leave it now as have things to do.

 

Oh gloom! Hope you get it sorted. It is all very odd as mine runs perfectly and as per my video, will cheerfully haul 10 coaches.

[57xx]

2 hours ago, melmerby said:

Result, a bit smoother at the bottom end but a horrid acceleration graph and a max top speed of 47mph with Train Controller.

 

I wonder if that is Dapol trying to compensate for the gear ratio blooper.

[melmerby]

28 minutes ago, JST said:

 

Oh gloom! Hope you get it sorted. It is all very odd as mine runs perfectly and as per my video, will cheerfully haul 10 coaches.

Tomorrow decoder out and blanking plug in and try it on DC.

If that works, decoder into ESU tester to try a hard reset, to see whether it has gone into overload mode for some reason.

I assume there is an on board cut-out on Zimo decoders, there is on Lenz decoders.

 

Any gradient? Mine will romp away with 8 various bogies but slows considerably on my not particularly steep incline and the current climbs somewhat more than other locos I have, a sure sign of gearing for too high a top speed.

In comparison a Bachmann 57XX , with a puny 3 pole motor, manages it with ease.

 

 

[JST]

Ten coaches was on the flat. I have a 1 in 100 gradient on which it pulled 6 coaches with no problem. Hope the reset works.

[melmerby]

17 hours ago, melmerby said:

Disaster!

Whilst tweaking the speed steps for speed profiling it has died on me.

I can still read and write CVs with Decoder Pro but there is absolutely no motor response. (Oh and the smokebox dart fell out as well)

Have to leave it now as have things to do.

 

I have removed and replaced the carrier board - no difference, motor still dead.

Replace decoder with blanking plug - works fine on DC, can't be motor.

Put decoder in ESU tester - also works fine, can't be decoder.

I'm puzzled.

What next?