Mousa Models future production

[hayfield]

I have not bothered to look at Bills website as my modelling interests lie elsewhere, Bill clearly states the terms of business for his expressions of interest and if they are as little a £1 and the customer accepts his terms of business then that's enough said. Bill produces models, what and how quickly is another matter, and if they are as good as the wire bending jigs no one will be un happy

 

Now if you dislike the terms and conditions that's your problem, not Bills

 

One idea is perhaps those who seed feed these models should be able to buy them cheaper once in production, than those who sit on their hands and wait for the finished article.

[Colin_McLeod]

Do you still have the M&S prawn sandwich?

?????

Please do explain.

[jjb1970]

If people are happy to send money to a supplier simply to register an EOI for something which may or not get made then that's entirely their choice. Equally if that supplier starts a thread on the topic then they can't complain if people offer differing opinions, if this thread had never been started I doubt anybody would ever have commented on it. 

[Colin_McLeod]

, if this thread had never been started I doubt anybody would ever have commented on it.

 

True. No one commented on the thread I didn't start either.

[hayfield]

Touched a nerve? Perhaps someone on here bought an engagement ring from Ratners or didn't understand the comparison I made.

 

 

?????

Please do explain.

 

 

Well the infamous quote by Gerald Ratner stated M&S sandwiches were both dearer and would last longer

 

Gerald Ratner wiped £500m from the value of his eponymous jewellery when he said of its stock: “People say, ‘How can you sell this for such a low price?’ I say, ‘Because it’s total crap.’"

He added that his stores' earrings were "cheaper than an M&S prawn sandwich but probably wouldn't last as long". 

[Colin_McLeod]

Thanks Hayfield. I understand now

 

Also I think I have identified the source of that fishy smell emanating from SWMBO's jewelry box. LOL.

[jjb1970]

I was always rather bemused at the reaction to Gerald Rattner's comments as I thought they were just a statement of the obvious.

[hayfield]

I was always rather bemused at the reaction to Gerald Rattner's comments as I thought they were just a statement of the obvious.

 

 

We all know that, but when you run a PLC the stock-market does not like bosses who run their own company down. 

 

Lets face it every high street jeweller sells products many times more expensive than its asset value,  

[Captain Kernow]

I can't help thinking that this thread, in combination with posts on the Coopercraft thread have been an own goal.

 

That assumes, of course, that sufficient of Bill's customers

 

(i) read RMWeb

(ii) read this and the Cooper Craft thread and

(iii) are persuaded by those who are taking issue, oops sorry, 'discussing things' with Bill.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Captain Kernow

[Captain Kernow]

I too am puzzled by Mr Bedford’s defence of Mr Coopercraft in the other thread.

 

I don't see it as Bill 'defending' Paul Dunn, rather Bill seems to be attempting to take a more broad, more inclusive view of the issue, but is getting criticised because he isn't immediately leaping to heap vociferous condemnation on Mr Dunn.

[Porcy Mane]

I don't see it as Bill 'defending' Paul Dunn, rather Bill seems to be attempting to take a more broad, more inclusive view of the issue, but is getting criticised because he isn't immediately leaping to heap vociferous condemnation on Mr Dunn.

 

 

and then there might be a few that have had issues with Mr B or his products in the past that have found this particular thread a convenient place to vent their spleens?

 

P

[Colin_McLeod]

Perhaps because his more " broad and inclusive" view ignores very important facts even when they have been pointed out to him in case he had been unaware.

[Captain Kernow]

Perhaps because his more " broad and inclusive" view ignores very important facts even when they have been pointed out to him in case he had been unaware.

Colin,

 

How can I put this?

 

It's not 'the facts' themselves that are at issue, as far as I am concerned, it's the tone with which all this is being discussed.

 

No one, as far as I am aware, is arguing with the fact that Coopercraft have been/still can take money for goods that are not likely to be produced in the near future, if at all, or the fact that this - as a business practice - cannot be condoned.

 

But the manner (or tone) in which some of these 'discussions' are being undertaken, (in my opinion, based on what some, certainly not all, individuals have posted, especially in the Coopercraft thread) has moved from an understandable 'righteous indignation' to something less pleasant.

[locoholic]

Colin,

 

How can I put this?

 

It's not 'the facts' themselves that are at issue, as far as I am concerned, it's the tone with which all this is being discussed.

 

No one, as far as I am aware, is arguing with the fact that Coopercraft have been/still can take money for goods that are not likely to be produced in the near future, if at all, or the fact that this - as a business practice - cannot be condoned.

 

But the manner (or tone) in which some of these 'discussions' are being undertaken, (in my opinion, based on what some, certainly not all, individuals have posted, especially in the Coopercraft thread) has moved from an understandable 'righteous indignation' to something less pleasant.

If only Mr Dunn would contribute to this topic, so that we could decide whether the tone of his comments was acceptable!

[Compound2632]

If only Mr Dunn would contribute to this topic, so that we could decide whether the tone of his comments was acceptable!

 

Or the other topic. Waiting for Bill on this one!

[Colin_McLeod]

Colin,

 

How can I put this?

 

It's not 'the facts' themselves that are at issue, as far as I am concerned, it's the tone with which all this is being discussed.

 

No one, as far as I am aware, is arguing with the fact that Coopercraft have been/still can take money for goods that are not likely to be produced in the near future, if at all, or the fact that this - as a business practice - cannot be condoned.

 

But the manner (or tone) in which some of these 'discussions' are being undertaken, (in my opinion, based on what some, certainly not all, individuals have posted, especially in the Coopercraft thread) has moved from an understandable 'righteous indignation' to something less pleasant.

Can you really blame those who have been conned for being stronger in their response than 'righteous indignation'. If a wide ranging discussion of ways of getting Dunn to behave offends then either refrain from reading, or more usefully, contact Dunn and try to talk some sense into him.

 

In addition to everyone's frustration at Dunn's behaviour we also have to read posts attempting to defend the indefensible and criticising victims for the understandable tone of their posts.

 

I have always found railway modellers to be a friendly bunch but it would be sad if Paul Dunn's behaviour drives a wedge between those who deplore his actions and those who defend them.

[Craigw]

Can you really blame those who have been conned for being stronger in their response than 'righteous indignation'. If a wide ranging discussion of ways of getting Dunn to behave offends then either refrain from reading, or more usefully, contact Dunn and try to talk some sense into him.

 

In addition to everyone's frustration at Dunn's behaviour we also have to read posts attempting to defend the indefensible and criticising victims for the understandable tone of their posts.

 

I have always found railway modellers to be a friendly bunch but it would be sad if Paul Dunn's behaviour drives a wedge between those who deplore his actions and those who defend them.

 

I do not support the actions of the Coopercraft owner one bit. I decided long ago after hearing reports about on line ordering and knowing a couple of people who experienced same that I would not go down that path. I have also discouraged friends from ordering via that means. Bill has merely suggested that things may not be as simple as some people paint them. Is he right? I really do not know.

 

But Bills comments have resulted in him copping a pile of crap that is not deserved. Bill and some of his models have their quirks. We all do. But what he is doing with 3D printed wagons is a god send for those of us who want to model something different to the 1950s-1960s steam-diesel transition rut so beloved of the RTR manufacturers.

 

If me putting a couple of dollars down as a deposit helps a couple of other wagons to reach fruition then I am very happy to do it.

 

Be annoyed with Coopercraft by all means, but that really is not a justification to lash out at all and sundry.

 

Craig W

[Colin_McLeod]

I was not aware of lashing out at all and sundry.

[Steamport Southport]

I do not support the actions of the Coopercraft owner one bit. I decided long ago after hearing reports about on line ordering and knowing a couple of people who experienced same that I would not go down that path. I have also discouraged friends from ordering via that means. Bill has merely suggested that things may not be as simple as some people paint them. Is he right? I really do not know.

 

But Bills comments have resulted in him copping a pile of crap that is not deserved. Bill and some of his models have their quirks. We all do. But what he is doing with 3D printed wagons is a god send for those of us who want to model something different to the 1950s-1960s steam-diesel transition rut so beloved of the RTR manufacturers.

 

If me putting a couple of dollars down as a deposit helps a couple of other wagons to reach fruition then I am very happy to do it.

 

Be annoyed with Coopercraft by all means, but that really is not a justification to lash out at all and sundry.

 

Craig W

 

Online shopping should be the safest means of purchasing items. Far more reliable than snail mail and cheques/postal orders. Just this last week or so I've made over £1000 of purchases  online. At least £600 was on model railway equipment. All of which have been successful. Most items turned up within two or three days even at this time of year. Rails Of Sheffield even taking less than a day from picking to arrival. That's how it supposed to be.

 

However you need the vendor to be honest, reliable and trustworthy. The owner of Coopercraft falls down on at least one of those. Is he honest and trustworthy? I don't know and I don't want to comment about that. Others have probably already made their own minds up.

 

But he's certainly not reliable.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[twiggy1969]

I was not aware of lashing out at all and sundry.

maybe thats the problem

[chris p bacon]

But the manner (or tone) in which some of these 'discussions' are being undertaken, (in my opinion, based on what some, certainly not all, individuals have posted, especially in the Coopercraft thread) has moved from an understandable 'righteous indignation' to something less pleasant.

 

I sense a tone of frustration but that is to be expected.

 

Be annoyed with Coopercraft by all means, but that really is not a justification to lash out at all and sundry.

 Who is lashing at who.

 

I was not aware of lashing out at all and sundry.

 

You certainly haven't Colin

 

maybe thats the problem

 

Maybe the problem is people seeing a fight where there isn't one.

 

Can someone quote where there has been lashing out on this thread.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Online shopping should be the safest means of purchasing items. Far more reliable than snail mail and cheques/postal orders. Just this last week or so I've made over £1000 of purchases  online. At least £600 was on model railway equipment. All of which have been successful. Most items turned up within two or three days even at this time of year. Rails Of Sheffield even taking less than a day from picking to arrival. That's how it supposed to be.

 

However you need the vendor to be honest, reliable and trustworthy. The owner of Coopercraft falls down on at least one of those. Is he honest and trustworthy? I don't know and I don't want to comment about that. Others have probably already made their own minds up.

 

But he's certainly not reliable.

 

 

 

 

Jason

 

How can it be safer than walking into a shop and handing over cash, presenting a cheque or using a credit card?

 

Online shopping is popular because it is convenient for some, suits the lazy and is often the cheapest option. I increasingly avoid online shopping because purchases have been delivered to the wrong address or claimed to be signed for when left outside (including at incorrect addresses). I have other reasons but those are outside the reason for this discussion.

Edited December 30, 2017 by Jol Wilkinson

[billbedford]

Online shopping should be the safest means of purchasing items. Far more reliable than snail mail and cheques/postal orders. Just this last week or so I've made over £1000 of purchases  online. At least £600 was on model railway equipment. All of which have been successful. Most items turned up within two or three days even at this time of year. Rails Of Sheffield even taking less than a day from picking to arrival. That's how it supposed to be.

 

 

That is fine so long as you only want to deal with retailers whose sole function is to stock and sell products. If you want to deal with, mainly, smaller companies whose primary function is to design and manufacture new products then they are not going to meet your expectations because the amount of time they can devote to dealing with sales is a fraction of the total needed to run the business.

[jjb1970]

That is fine so long as you only want to deal with retailers whose sole function is to stock and sell products. If you want to deal with, mainly, smaller companies whose primary function is to design and manufacture new products then they are not going to meet your expectations because the amount of time they can devote to dealing with sales is a fraction of the total needed to run the business.

 

That all depends on how they run their business. I buy items from several small suppliers of specialised hi-fi and cycling goods who provide excellent service and maintain web sites which advise whether items are in stock. If in stock they deliver as quickly as the box shifters. If not in stock then they'll generally not accept on-line orders but rather either offer an opinion whether a re-stock will take place or request that you contact them to discuss. If it is a bespoke item them they'll provide their terms and conditions for ordering bespoke items (including waiting times and delivery schedules) which generally does require a deposit. To state that small companies making things cannot provide a similar shopping experience to an on-line retailer whose sole function is to sell stuff is a generalisation and incorrect. 

[Jol Wilkinson]

That all depends on how they run their business. I buy items from several small suppliers of specialised hi-fi and cycling goods who provide excellent service and maintain web sites which advise whether items are in stock. If in stock they deliver as quickly as the box shifters. If not in stock then they'll generally not accept on-line orders but rather either offer an opinion whether a re-stock will take place or request that you contact them to discuss. If it is a bespoke item them they'll provide their terms and conditions for ordering bespoke items (including waiting times and delivery schedules) which generally does require a deposit. To state that small companies making things cannot provide a similar shopping experience to an on-line retailer whose sole function is to sell stuff is a generalisation and incorrect. 

Your reply rather indicates that theses suppliers are "resellers", not manufacturer/retailers, which is what Bill was referring to. Reordering stock and maintaining a "live" ordering website probably takes up a lot of their time, but they may not be tied up actually making anything.