YesTor Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) Whether it's RTR models or scratch built with regard to fine detail, I suppose a lot of it boils down to, "where does one stop?" Lets say Bachmann built the model with prototype depth door handrail recesses and fitted individiual rails within. Would we then be asking them why didn't you fit individual door handles? P I'm inclined to agree, we have to be realistic, but in fairness fitting separate handrails surely isn't quantum mechanics, manufacturers have been achieving them on models quite successfully for a couple of decades now. I realize that everyone has their own personal view, but for me moulded-on rails doesn't feel like a step forward, by any means. So be it, I guess. It just seems a shame that when clearly the rest of the model does indeed look incredibly nice that Bachmann have taken a step backwards on such a simple feature. It's kind of interesting too that when Hornby took a retro step a few years ago with their "design clever" approach and began adopting moulded-on rails, that everyone was up-in-arms about it, and if I recall correctly Hornby did a turnaround on one particular model... but then when Bachmann work a similar approach it seems to be applauded... Alas, there we go, one rule for one... etc... Edited January 4, 2018 by YesTor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) So why do you spend time on RMweb then? Another example of a "railway modeller" self depreciating the hobby, not only by calling them toy trains but also saying that he has much better things to do. I was thinking the same, why did he bother commenting at all. .. Edited January 4, 2018 by YesTor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) Whether it's RTR models or scratch built with regard to fine detail, I suppose a lot of it boils down to, "where does one stop?" Lets say Bachmann built the model with prototype depth door handrail recesses and fitted individiual rails within. Would we then be asking them why didn't you fit individual door handles? Then make the door handles operable, and the door opening...Then make a “T” key, with an eyelet so you can lock the door... Oh and err.. opening windows.. servo controlled. All for £50 please. Who will be first to make working windscreen wipers, it’d be nice to see some spring in those bogie springs...? Finally, on the weathered version, can we have an actual mud footprint outline on one of the steps.. one for left foot and one for the right foot.., and a partly squashed empty can of coke in the drivers window. ;-) Edited January 4, 2018 by adb968008 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) As for the non-availability of a parallel boiler LMS 'Scot', surely cheap bodies can be bought on Ebay and the body modified to fit on a Hornby Rebuilt Scot chassis. Another way is to fit the parallel body on a Bachmann Jubilee chassis; that way you also get to use the Bachmann Tender (its better than Hornby's). Hmm, possibilities exist there, it's true. AFAICS Hornby have yet to do the rebuilt Scot in crimson, so that route would involve some repainting in order to meet my purposes. By no means out of the question but would be extra work. EDIT: Of course there is a good reason for Hornby not doing the rebuilt Scot in crimson: by the time they were "rebuilt" the only livery was black. However, it turns out Hornby did do a limited edition model of 6100 as preserved in crimson LMS livery, so that could be a way to avoid repainting. There seem to be a few examples of Bachmann's crimson 5664 Nelson available brand new (it's DCC ready so I assume it has the latest, non-split chassis) for not-quite-ludicrous money. That has the Stanier riveted tender, I understand - is that the one you meant? 5588 Kashmir comes with the Stanier welded tender, but it's fitted with DCC sound so more expensive. Unfortunately there don't seem to be any parallel boiler Scot bodies on eBay just now in a condition which I would find acceptable. (One of the ones listed at the moment seems to have suffered an assault on its smokebox door from below - ouch!) I suppose another approach would be to buy Nelson and run that until an acceptable Scot body came up for sale. (I could even end up with two locos for the price of 1½ that way!) Thanks for the suggestions. Hello EJ Perhaps I am easily pleased. For Christmas I bought myself a split chassis Jubilee from the 1990s. Less than £50 and possibly even more fun than Sir William at £150 or was it £200. Ray I base my doubts about the split chassis on discussions such as this one and this one. The view seems to be that the Mainline (& subsequently Bachmann) implementation of the split chassis was let down by weaknesses in the design of the stub axle insulation - which is potentially fixable - and by the short working lifespan of the current-carrying main axle 'bearings', which is more difficult to cure. Split chassis apparently also creates difficulties with DCC (though Bachmann's limited edition Scots came with DCC fitted, so it's clearly not a complete show-stopper). However, that's less of an issue for me since I am still resolutely DC. I'd rather avoid buying a model that is known to be likely to have a limited operational life - though I suppose if I found a decent, recent example of a split chassis, parallel boiler Scot then a non-split Jubilee chassis would still exist as a way to keep it running if the worst did come to pass (and by that point non-split-chassis Jubs might also be appearing on the s/h market at reasonable prices). Edited January 4, 2018 by ejstubbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmay2002 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 The BR early emblem version, 58072, was withdrawn from Higbridge so I think that's the S&D version intended, not a blue version in this first round. In any case, I'm not sure the 1823 Class, built from 1889 onwards, that Bachmann are doing is quite close enough to the engines built for the S&DJR, which were similar to the contemporay Midland engines of the 6 and 1532 Classes. But all Class 47s look the same to me, so I may be being over-sensitive... The SDJR one they were talkiing about was LMS number 1305 sold by the MR to the SDJR in 1921. He made the specific point that there was only one SDJR engine identical to the MR ones and 1305 was it. It got SDJR blue and then after 1930 for a brief period was still in blue with LMS on the tanks. 58072 ex 1379 was never owned by the SDJR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 It is unfortunate that the term 'Design Clever' has contaminated the well. Had it not been invented, I am sure moulded grab handles, where appropriate, would be received without comment. One area I do not like separate grab handles is beside carriage doors. Moulded handles are usually scale dimensions, easily picked out with 'brass' paint and will never ever fall off. I say this after loosing a few over the years. However, the long grab handles beside guards doors and the horizontal handles at each of GWR coaches always look better in wire. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 4, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2018 The SDJR one they were talkiing about was LMS number 1305 sold by the MR to the SDJR in 1921. He made the specific point that there was only one SDJR engine identical to the MR ones and 1305 was it. It got SDJR blue and then after 1930 for a brief period was still in blue with LMS on the tanks. 58072 ex 1379 was never owned by the SDJR. Mea maxima culpa: I confess to not having actually run the video with the sound on... If I had, I would have been suitably impressed by the depth of their research. The point about 58072 is that it was allocated to the S&D section in the 50s, which is the favoured period for many modellers of that line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted January 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2018 It is unfortunate that the term 'Design Clever' has contaminated the well. Had it not been invented, I am sure moulded grab handles, where appropriate, would be received without comment. Indeed, as I recall, after the stuff hit the fan with Hornby several instances came out of the woodwork where the Blue team had quietly added some moulded handrails, most smokebox handles were half-moulded, and 5 pole motors had quietly given way to 3 pole (skew-wound?) ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 So why do you spend time on RMweb then? Another example of a "railway modeller" self depreciating the hobby, not only by calling them toy trains but also saying that he has much better things to do. I don't watch videos. What's the problem with that? I'm actually supposed to be working. As I have nothing to do, then I'm here looking at this website. YouTube videos are banned from my workplace anyway. I think my job is vastly more important than a few "models" especially since it involves peoples lives. As for the "toy trains" then what are they? They are bits of plastic and metal. They aren't essential. They are a bit of fun that may bring enjoyment to somebody. That is all. Nobody died because they didn't get the latest "model". In other words toys. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) Mea maxima culpa: I confess to not having actually run the video with the sound on... If I had, I would have been suitably impressed by the depth of their research. The point about 58072 is that it was allocated to the S&D section in the 50s, which is the favoured period for many modellers of that line. 58072 is NOT an S&D engine! Why want that when you can have a Class O/G5... Edited January 4, 2018 by The Black Hat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 I was thinking the same, why did he bother commenting at all. .. I've already explained that I had misread your post. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Then make the door handles operable, and the door opening... Then make a “T” key, with an eyelet so you can lock the door... Oh and err.. opening windows.. servo controlled. All for £50 please. Who will be first to make working windscreen wipers, it’d be nice to see some spring in those bogie springs...? Finally, on the weathered version, can we have an actual mud footprint outline on one of the steps.. one for left foot and one for the right foot.., and a partly squashed empty can of coke in the drivers window. ;-) You forgot the proverbial 1 litre bottle of yellow unmentionable. Or have you taken that already, maybe you have Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) You forgot the proverbial 1 litre bottle of yellow unmentionable. Or have you taken that already, maybe you have F12 on the DCC chip.., F13 for the toilet roll holder spinning. Fortunately DCC doesn’t do smell yet, otherwise F14 onwards might get really bad. Edited January 4, 2018 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 4, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) 58072 is NOT an S&D engine! Why want that when you can have a Class O/G5... Well same difference: not built for but allocated to. I'd hold out for a BTP - at least built at the S&D's works*. (No, not Highbridge...) *As were the Os, on a closer reading of Hoole. Edited January 4, 2018 by Compound2632 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 The 1P was announced in Jan 2017 Not an S&DJR version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 I must admit to being a mite disappointed that the non-split-chassis parallel boiler Royal Scot has been put on the back burner. I've got one of Bachmann's modern Patriot models (Duke of Sutherland) and I've had a hankering for a parallel boiler Scot for some time but, although I don't use DCC, the general bad press that the split chassis seems to get has put me off. I'm not aware of another RTR offering made to anything like current standards being available. Oh well, just have to keep waiting I suppose... For me it was one of the highlights of the 2015 announcements. I feel a bit deflated but, like yourself, I shall just have to keep waiting. At least we haven’t been told, “Never, ever.” Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Well same difference: not built for but allocated to. I'd hold out for a BTP - at least built at the S&D's works*. (No, not Highbridge...) *As were the Os, on a closer reading of Hoole. Hold out for what? Least it seems you have heard of decent traction... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 4, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2018 Least it seems you have heard of decent traction... Note my avatar - a Smith-Johnson compound. How could I not hold the Gateshead drawing office in high regard? Hold out for what? ... a long time, I suspect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted January 4, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2018 I'm inclined to agree, we have to be realistic, but in fairness fitting separate handrails surely isn't quantum mechanics, manufacturers have been achieving them on models quite successfully for a couple of decades now. I realize that everyone has their own personal view, but for me moulded-on rails doesn't feel like a step forward, by any means. So be it, I guess. Comparing the 90 cab handrails with those of a 66 (which are moulded in plastic) isn't a proper comparison as they are two different types of handrail - as well as a completely different shape. Similarly the front grab rails on a 68 are a completely different shape and suit themselves to being moulded in plastic. "What - plastic handrails I hear some cry - heresy........" (Even my choice of all time contender for best RTR 4mm diesel/electric has plastic handrails but the 90 is looking like running it very close) I'm sure that Bachmann will have wanted to fit separate handrails, but there does come a point at which complexity of production and therefore cost, must become a serious consideration. What would be a true measure is a model out there with wire handrails of a similar nature? i.e in a slot and flush to the bodyside with top and bottom mounting as per the 90. I'm not sure there is one, but would like to be proved otherwise. Cheers, Mick 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Not an S&DJR version. Ahh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) How would the failed experts and fake modellers form these handrails out of wire? There is no bend over top and bottom.... WEB 90 handrails 2.jpg I'm not quite sure how personal/derogatory comments are really a positive contribution to the discussion? Edited January 4, 2018 by YesTor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 I'm actually supposed to be working. As I have nothing to do, then I'm here looking at this website... I think my job is vastly more important than a few "models" especially since it involves peoples lives. As for the "toy trains" then what are they? They are bits of plastic and metal. In other words toys. Jason Clearly your job must be vastly important if you have nothing to do all afternoon. An oxymoron if ever there was one... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Clearly your job must be vastly important if you have nothing to do all afternoon. An oxymoron if ever there was one... It's a quiet day after Christmas and New Year where I don't have a great deal to do as I've already done it. Spent most of it taking down Christmas decorations. My actual job is looking after volunteers, admin and key holding duties. I'm a manager of a shop where I made a few thousands of pounds today for a hospice for terminally ill people. If that's not important then I don't know what is. As I said, vastly more important than watching videos about toys. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Marshall Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Note my avatar - a Smith-Johnson compound. How could I not hold the Gateshead drawing office in high regard? ... a long time, I suspect. W M Smith - What chance of a 4CC? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jub45565 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 more important than watching videos about toys. Jason, I think the point (or certainly mine at least) is that this thread is about the video linked in the first post, and therefore it would be sensible to watch the video before chipping in. We all miss random bits half way down threads, but if you don't want to watch the video I'm not sure what the point of continuing down the topic was... I often don't bother with video links, but it was interesting so I'm glad I did on this occasion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now