Hornby 2018 - the full announcements

[Coryton]

If the NGO's want to govern speed limits at sea under the guise of reducing emissions then what about the model railway industry using the Yiwu to London train that only tasks 18 days to complete compared to 30-45 days by ship (source Wikipedia).

What an advert that would be with all our model railway products coming from China by train straight to the UK, of course provided this method is cheaper than using ships and maybe someone in the know can say whether it is or not.

 

Pricing somewhere between air and sea, I believe - so is a rather niche service for things that don't need the speed of air but could do with being faster than sea.

 

the prices of the same tooling based models doubling in a handful of years isn't going to help sales figures ... especially taking into account how little wages have increased in comparison

 

Doubling prices is almost certainly going to reduce turnover, but could very easily improve profit, which is the sales figure that matters.

 

It's a unfortunate fact (from our point of view) that a hefty increase in sale price could result in a relatively small increase in profit (i.e. the increased margins more than make up for decreased sales, but not by much) but still be the right thing for the manufacturer to do.

[Robin Brasher]

In reply to Western Dave's post I am not sure if we all want our model right now but I ordered my LSWR gate stock push-pull sets from Kernow on 12 January 2012 and did not receive them until December 2017.

 

In comparison Hornby has been prompt on deliveries recently and I hope that will continue this year. A few years ago Hornby was slow on delivering sufficient quantities of their Maunsell push-pulls which were announced after Kernow's but delivered before.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Robin Brasher

[Compound2632]

You could say that the Class H 0-4-4T has been a very clever piece of planning on Hornby's part, coming into the shops at just the same time as Bachmann's long-announced birdcage carriages, no doubt to the advantage of both manufacturers.

[Robin Brasher]

The SE&CR versions of both Hornby's H class and Bachmann's birdcage coaches seem to be the most popular liveries as the H class has sold out and Hattons have only got 69-620 the brake third left.

 

Pleased to see that Hornby is doing another pre-grouping H class in their collectors' club.

[brushman47544]

My maths teacher used to tell me you don't get any marks for your answer unless you show your workings out.

 

That always used to p*** me off because I could do a lot in my head but was unable to write down what I was doing.

[Mallard60022]

Saw all three versions of the new Nelson at Donny Show on Sunday. They are superb, absolutely superb.

Thank you Hornby.

Phil

[adb968008]

Just look at the coupling rods and retainers holding those rods on, and that will in part explain Rocos high prices...

The detail is a level we don’t have in the UK,neither is the optimum weight balance and subsequent smooth running nature that we see in Roco’s products.

No 2.5 or 3 BA nuts are used.

 

 

You get way you pay for, their R&D extends further. The presentation is better, it comes in a perspex box. The quality is much stronger.. I’ve never had a faulty Roco loco new, nor have I had bits broken off or paint that wasn’t 100%.

More details here on what you get for the extra £100.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80959-roco-2014-catalogue-s160-in-h0/?p=2684986

 

Though one thing is absent on the Roco product line... the absence of UK mass discounters. Take the usual 20% off RRP as is common in the UK, the difference isn’t that big.

The s160 is 389Euro/£345, that’s £275 with 20% off.

 

Mercedes or Ford...

 

I love the new Piko stuff coming out, and it’s hugely cheaper than Roco, but as yet Piko are to rise to the challenge of new super detailed steam locos, the modern image is excellent, but it’s comparing new against old toolings, though I noticed in 2018 some of Roco’s older diesel/electric range is looking a bit more competitive... the Taigtrommel is 174 Euro / £154 , and isn’t that old.. but then Piko just announced they are also doing this tooling for 140 Euro /£124..

Then again Roco are a year since having announced this 12 axles twin diesel monster from the east..

http://www.roco.cc/responsebinary.asp?id=559966516230417

 

I should add the 2018 catalog includes a description of their Vietnam production line in Ho Chi Minh city also..., it’s not just EU.

 

http://www.roco.cc/uploads/news/Kataloge/20180116_Roco_Neuheitenkatalog_GB_FR_WEB.pdf

Edited February 12, 2018 by adb968008

[truffy]

Etc...

 

Issue is though, where are you going to find the hundreds of low skilled factory workers to do high precision work. If you cannot even get the D and Unemployed into the Fens to pick vegetables, I cannot see how you can recruit them to make train models. Simply, the UK does not have the skills set for such work, nor why should we, we can out source our manufacturing to those counties who have the employment skills to deliver us products we are willing to pay for.

where did I say UK?

[adb968008]

And then the Chinese economy went into inflation.

 

TBH, it would be nice to see some of that manufacturing brought back to Europe. Communications between engineering and manufacturing might improve, so those little whoopsies don't creep in, and shipping times would plummet.

But at what cost..

 

How much does it cost to set up a factory, with all the tooling machines, injection moulding, milling, casting etc... then you have to hire everyone in, and train them to make model railways..

Then you need the R&D CAD designers, and engineers who are able to design drive systems etc.

 

Then if you spend a few million over a few years doing this, without much return next up is getting those tools out of China... did I say whoops it fell out of the window and smashed ? Logistically will moving toolings occur painlessly ?.. a model doesn’t comprise of one tooling... what use a full set of toolings for a steam loco, if the tooling to make cylinders got lost in the mail ?

 

What might be a workable idea would be getting the raw parts made in China and finished / assembled, painted, printed and boxed over here... but isn’t Chinese labour the cheaper part of this issue ?

Edited February 12, 2018 by adb968008

[jjb1970]

Ultimately it's about cost. If manufacturers could save money to make moving production to most places you might like to mention worth their while then they're find a way to do it. Businesses are like most other organisations, if they don't want to do something or see no advantage in it then there are always plenty of reasons not to do it. If they decide it's worth their while then suddenly those reasons are yesterdays news and they just do it.

[Coryton]

Then if you spend a few million over a few years doing this, without much return next up is getting those tools out of China... did I say whoops it fell out of the window and smashed ? Logistically will moving toolings occur painlessly ?.. a model doesn’t comprise of one tooling... what use a full set of toolings for a steam loco, if the tooling to make cylinders got lost in the mail ?

 

 

Quite a lot of use if you can re-make the missing bit....a lot cheaper than making the whole set of tooling?

[Oldddudders]

Others are cognisant of costs in China. Nikon has closed its plant there, and the upcoming model due for Chinese manufacture will now be made at their existing plant in Thailand. 

[Dunsignalling]

Ultimately it's about cost. If manufacturers could save money to make moving production to most places you might like to mention worth their while then they're find a way to do it. Businesses are like most other organisations, if they don't want to do something or see no advantage in it then there are always plenty of reasons not to do it. If they decide it's worth their while then suddenly those reasons are yesterdays news and they just do it.

Indeed. There will be regular calculations being made as to the cost of movement vs. how quickly any savings obtainable from doing so would cover it.

 

In Hornby's case, they already use multiple manufacturing facilities in China already so it's not difficult to imagine them reducing the number and taking on one or two elsewhere. 

 

John

Edited February 13, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[adb968008]

Quite a lot of use if you can re-make the missing bit....a lot cheaper than making the whole set of tooling?

Agreed, but it’s not off the supermarket shelf.

If you’ve to find an extra £20k on this one, £10k for that loco, it adds up... in time and cost... and of course it’s how long it takes to learn there’s a piece missing in the jigsaw puzzle.

 

The best example of this I recall is a story I was told in South Africa once, in the 19th century at a bridge construction at Knysna in South Africa. The bridge was cast in Scotland and shipped to SA. On unloading the ship 1 piece fell into the sea. Without technology to recover the part, and no record of which piece sank.. they had to suspend construction of the bridge for nearly 3 years, as they had to wait until all parts arrived in SA, compare it to construction drawings, and order the missing piece.

 

Bringing it back to topic, back in the 1990’s I lived in the US, After visiting Hungary and seeing 520.024 I decided I want one like that, and sourced a Trix 22515 SZD BR 52, with the right smokebox, but a headlight. I dismantled the loco, removed the headlight and needed filler to complete. Work got in the way, the box/chassis and tender made its way to Mancheste rn 2002. The body made its way to Hong Kong around 2004. Finally In 2013 I got all the bits together, but the smokebox door eludes me... I know it’s in a box in the garage somewhere, sitting with a kit built v63 and a part converted tcdd Stanier 8f, and I’ve been looking on ebay.de for a replacement for the last 4 years.. at some point i’ll Get the missing bit, and hopefully after 19 years it’ll be a runner.

 

It might be faster in the 21st century, but time is still money, and until you’ve got all the jigsaw In front of you, you don’t know what you’ve got and what’ve you’ve not, and until you’ve got the whole, all you’ve got is a pile of bits.

Edited February 17, 2018 by adb968008

[classy52]

Just read in Rail Express Modeller that Colas has requested Hornby to change their Colas Class 67 release from 67023 'Stella' to 67027 'Charlotte' instead thus it will be this one that is released later in the year.

[big jim]

Just read in Rail Express Modeller that Colas has requested Hornby to change their Colas Class 67 release from 67023 'Stella' to 67027 'Charlotte' instead thus it will be this one that is released later in the year.

There is a thread about it somewhere, and before any conspiracy theory’s start up I’ve spoke to the person who deals with things like that it’s just a commercial thing, no sinister undertones etc!!

[MGR Hooper!]

Just read in Rail Express Modeller that Colas has requested Hornby to change their Colas Class 67 release from 67023 'Stella' to 67027 'Charlotte' instead thus it will be this one that is released later in the year.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/130579-Hornby-r3659-renumbered-67027-charlotte/

 

Your post will be useful here too. 

[MarkSG]

There is a thread about it somewhere, and before any conspiracy theory’s start up I’ve spoke to the person who deals with things like that it’s just a commercial thing, no sinister undertones etc!!

 

I'm not sure why anyone would think there's something sinister about it. I just find it interesting that the railway companies are sufficiently interested themselves in the model scene that they care about which particular locos get modelled.

 

I know that the model manufacturers need to get permission from the railway companies to use liveries and designs that are still subject to copyright and design right, but I wasn't aware that the the TOCs expressed any opinion to the model firms about the subjects of the models other than just agreeing (or not, as the case may be) to a request for permission.

[big jim]

I'm not sure why anyone would think there's something sinister about it..

The attitude and bad feeling of some posters on rmweb just recently would try and make something sinister out of nothing just for the sake of an argument!!

 

(Personally I’d like to have seen it unnamed)

Edited February 14, 2018 by big jim

[classy52]

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/130579-Hornby-r3659-renumbered-67027-charlotte/

 

Your post will be useful here too. 

 

Never knew the thread existed as it was hidden from my view unless I clicked on 'load more', anyway I'll post there as well and have it added to my growing list of threads...lol noticed there is some conspiracy talk already in there about Hornby's long names & difficulties in renaming them 

[classy52]

The attitude and bad feeling of some posters on rmweb just recently would try and make something sinister out of nothing just for the sake of an argument!!

 

(Personally I’d like to have seen it unnamed)

 

Yes have to agree with you on that Jim but for some reason the last couple of months has been bad where posts including my own expressing an opinion or just asking a question has been met with derision and rudeness and unfortunately I have bitten on a couple of occasions resulting in posts being deleted which is fair enough, some of the stuff I've read on a couple of threads are diabolical and people just need to calm down and not take things personally.

 

Anyway moving on, in regards to wanting the Hornby Colas 67's unnamed that would have been good and would probably have doubled Hornby's sales (I would buy 2) but I think the reason for that has been answered in the other thread

Edited February 14, 2018 by classy52

[Compound2632]

some conspiracy talk already in there about Hornby's long names & difficulties in renaming them 

 

Bachmann, on the other hand, I see did 61018 GNU (though only as a limited edition).

 

(That's 61018, not 61 018, just to avoid confusion!)

[The Johnster]

Perhaps it was a limited edition in order to avoid accusations of making a gnother gnu...

 

Coat?

[Pint of Adnams]

Bachmann, on the other hand, I see did 61018 GNU (though only as a limited edition).

 

(That's 61018, not 61 018, just to avoid confusion!)

I heard that it was a mistake originating from a draughtsman's note scrawled on the GA interpreted as 'Gazelle Names Used'

[GreenGiraffe22]

Regardless of historical accuracy or what word you want to use to describe its condition, I'm hust greatful we have one that's being kept alive along with locos such as the C Class & E4 =)