Bachmann H1 Class Atlantic

[No Decorum]

Perhaps they should think "I know, I'll do a model of a Chatham 'D' class - that should wake the market up !" .................................................. and perhaps there shouldn't have been a 'perhaps' in that.

 

I would suggest that the market has woken up to the Chatham D. The market needs to make some coffee for the RTR manufacturers. 

[SRman]

Can anyone explain to me what the significance of the black crosses are on some of the headcode discs for the H1, please? With apologies if this has already been covered.

Also, in looking through photos of the prototype in my quest to work out suitable headcodes, I noted that there also seemed to be some square "discs" (I know, they aren't discs but headcode squares doesn't sound right!), with a horizontal series of dark lines. The headcodes seem to vary even when on the same train, the 'Southern Belle'. All of this has me a little puzzled, but also means that I can pretty well pick any reasonable combination of the headcode discs and have a 'correct' model.

In the absence of any other suitable coaching stock, I may put some Pullmans behind my La France, although even those may be too modern to be accurate for the period intended.

[Jack P]

I would suggest that the market has woken up to the Chatham D. The market needs to make some coffee for the RTR manufacturers. 

 

 

I heard that the SECR D at the NRM had been scanned, by Hornby Maybe(?) a little while ago.. I'm not sure if that was a rumour, but I wouldn't be too surprised, seeing how popular the SECR liveried H and C class have been..

[Ian Hargrave]

I would suggest that the market has woken up to the Chatham D. The market needs to make some coffee for the RTR manufacturers.

 

Woken up ? This part of the said market has insomnia.The most glaring omission from NRM 4mm models.Why is this?

[phil gollin]

Woken up ? This part of the said market has insomnia.The most glaring omission from NRM 4mm models.Why is this?

.

 

AND, if they design it right they can use the chassis with a new body and make a D1 which lasted into the late emblem era (1961).

 

Two (very nearly) for the price of one.

 

.

[Wickham Green]

I would suggest that the market has woken up to the Chatham D. The market needs to make some coffee for the RTR manufacturers. 

I was trying to imply that the market for SECR coaches might wake up if when the 'D' emerges from some Chinese factory or other. ( The desire for the loco has been - er -  hinted at on these threads more than once or thrice ! )

[trevor7598]

An RTR SECR 'D' has all the credentials to be a magnificent top seller.

But on the subject of RTR LBSC coaches ( which I would love to see ), there are a number of problems

that could put off a manufacturer. Bogie brake vehicles were built with guards duckets, but the SR 

removed them ( two sets of tools ). But the biggest problem is that none ( except push-pull sets )

survived on the mainland post 1948, so the popular BR era would be confined to the Isle of Wight.

 

On the plus side we have an Island O2, and a new Terrier, and an E1 in the pipeline.

[Oldddudders]

Can anyone explain to me what the significance of the black crosses are on some of the headcode discs for the H1, please? With apologies if this has already been covered.

Also, in looking through photos of the prototype in my quest to work out suitable headcodes, I noted that there also seemed to be some square "discs" (I know, they aren't discs but headcode squares doesn't sound right!), with a horizontal series of dark lines. The headcodes seem to vary even when on the same train, the 'Southern Belle'. All of this has me a little puzzled, but also means that I can pretty well pick any reasonable combination of the headcode discs and have a 'correct' model.

In the absence of any other suitable coaching stock, I may put some Pullmans behind my La France, although even those may be too modern to be accurate for the period intended.

I haven’t got a complete handle on the headcodes, but think the horizontal lines on a square were dropped from 1910, so La France doesn’t qualify. Then there were the twin diamonds. Even Hamilton Ellis’s history doesn’t seem to cover the whole thing. I hesitate to plough through J T Howard-Turner’s trilogy, but suspect it isn’t there. No doubt a Brighton Circle member would know chapter and verse, but my membership lapsed in 1984.....

[Wickham Green]

An RTR SECR 'D' has all the credentials to be a magnificent top seller.

But on the subject of RTR LBSC coaches ( which I would love to see ), there are a number of problems

that could put off a manufacturer. Bogie brake vehicles were built with guards duckets, but the SR 

removed them ( two sets of tools ). But the biggest problem is that none ( except push-pull sets )

survived on the mainland post 1948, so the popular BR era would be confined to the Isle of Wight.

 

On the plus side we have an Island O2, and a new Terrier, and an E1 in the pipeline.

Not to mention that the final / arguably finest Brighton coaches were too big for use elsewhere on Southern metals and had ridiculously short lives as a consequence.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...I hear that sales of the acclaimed SECR-liveried birdcage coaches haven’t been instant. What is an RTR manufacturer to think?

 Proceed with extreme caution? I imagine that the diversity of choice now set before us means that fine models that would not so long ago have sold widely, are now largely selling only to those for whose modelling or collecting interest they are a good fit. I can feel this in myself. Far and away the majority of my purchases are restricted to the southern end of the ECML 1955-62.

 

But I do like the 0-6-0 as a type, and smaller the better, so the lovely Wainwright C class was purchased. Had Hornby had their even lovelier ex GER J15 out prior to the C, then probably no purchase of the C as I already had the 'legitimate' Q1, 3F as my visiting 0-6-0s.

I also like the smaller 4-4-0 type, and Hornby have got in with the one good fit, D16/3. Despite feeling that the Wainwright D is possibly the most elegant 4-4-0  ever seen, I now have a very attractive 4-4-0...

I managed to forget my 'return to subject' conclusion: had no GNR atlantic been produced, Bach would have sold me an LBSCR H1 of course, for massaging back into Doncaster shape.

Edited December 5, 2018 by 34theletterbetweenB&D

[No Decorum]

I heard that the SECR D at the NRM had been scanned, by Hornby Maybe(?) a little while ago.. I'm not sure if that was a rumour, but I wouldn't be too surprised, seeing how popular the SECR liveried H and C class have been..

 

Bachmann has reportedly said that a rerun of the C in full Wainwright livery is not practical because of the complexity of the livery. That might just have been a line to keep us quiet. However, Hornby has not been put off by the complicated livery, nor, for that matter, has Hatton’s.

[Big James]

I think the D is only a matter of time. It’s glaring omission in the SECR range. You got the P for shunting, H for branch line and secondary passenger duties & the C for freight. D would be the mainline passenger locomotive to fill the hole with the chassis being used for the Frankenstein D1/E1 class. I actually don’t know who I would want to do the D class as C,H & P have all been modelled by different companies. But back on topic H2 in LBSCR livery looks absolutely stunning and if one was released in SR green I’ll probably be tempted by one or 2 of them.

 

Big James

[Wickham Green]

I think the D is only a matter of time. It’s glaring omission in the SECR range. You got the P for shunting, H for branch line and secondary passenger duties & the C for freight. D would be the mainline passenger locomotive to fill the hole with the chassis being used for the Frankenstein D1/E1 class. I actually don’t know who I would want to do the D class as C,H & P have all been modelled by different companies. But back on topic H2 in LBSCR livery looks absolutely stunning and if one was released in SR green I’ll probably be tempted by one or 2 of them.

 

Big James

Yep - it WOULD be a 'Frankenstein' if a manufacturer offered a model purporting to be a D1 AND E1 ........ 

 

[ I think you'll find that an H2 has actually been released in Maunsell SR green - but not in malachite, unfortunately ............................... but that's irrelevant as this is the H1 thread ( phew - back on topic ) rather than the H2 parallel universe ! ]

[Big James]

Sorry meant H1 was quickly posting while I’m the middle of a house move and didn’t notice my mistake. I’ve already got a H2 in BR black. From what I’ve read in books and seen on the internet I thought the D1/E1 was essentially the same class despite coming from different origin engines.

 

Big James

Edited December 5, 2018 by Big James

[stephennicholson]

I haven’t got a complete handle on the headcodes, but think the horizontal lines on a square were dropped from 1910, so La France doesn’t qualify. Then there were the twin diamonds. Even Hamilton Ellis’s history doesn’t seem to cover the whole thing. I hesitate to plough through J T Howard-Turner’s trilogy, but suspect it isn’t there. No doubt a Brighton Circle member would know chapter and verse, but my membership lapsed in 1984.....

 

Here is a good link explaining the use head codes. The crosstype was in use up to 1917, so Bachmann are right to include.

 

I too am going to use pullmans until a better iption turns up.

 

http://www.semgonline.com/headcodes/sheadcodes/02.html

[Forester]

Here is a good link explaining the use head codes.

http://www.semgonline.com/headcodes/sheadcodes/02.html

 

Grief! Did signalmen have to learn all that?

[Forester]

Bachmann’s SECR Birdcages are remarkably fine coaches but I have a little thought which niggles. The livery is quite subdued. Would the coaches have sold better if the livery was a little brighter, such that more people would have gone “Oooo!” and fished out their wallets? Must I report at dawn with a blindfold for even suggesting such a thing?

 

The current livery is a little brighter!

 

The SECR Birdcages appeared as a dull brown on the first Decoration Sample and some purple was added to lift the colour.

 

Personally I would have added even more, but they are not bad out of the box.

[wainwright1]

Bachmann is the obvious candidate for the Wainwright D class, as it was coupled to the same tender as the C class which they already have. So half the job is already done.

RB

[Jack P]

Bachmann is the obvious candidate for the Wainwright D class, as it was coupled to the same tender as the C class which they already have. So half the job is already done.

RB

 

 

That being said though, I wouldn't be half surprised if it was Rails that ended up doing it - having partnered with Locomotion of the NRM

[adb968008]

Bachmann has reportedly said that a rerun of the C in full Wainwright livery is not practical because of the complexity of the livery. That might just have been a line to keep us quiet. However, Hornby has not been put off by the complicated livery, nor, for that matter, has Hatton’s.

Perhaps, If it takes oodles of hours more, creates more rejects, and requires extra print masks than making a plain black one with white numbers for the same retail price, what makes commercial sense ?

Edited December 6, 2018 by adb968008

[SRman]

I haven’t got a complete handle on the headcodes, but think the horizontal lines on a square were dropped from 1910, so La France doesn’t qualify. Then there were the twin diamonds. Even Hamilton Ellis’s history doesn’t seem to cover the whole thing. I hesitate to plough through J T Howard-Turner’s trilogy, but suspect it isn’t there. No doubt a Brighton Circle member would know chapter and verse, but my membership lapsed in 1984.....

 

 

Thanks for this, and also to stephennicholson for the SEMG link. I have saved the page for ease of future reference. I have used the SEMG site for information on later headcodes, but missed the page on LBSC ones.

 

Ian (Olddudders), a few of the images I found in a Google search (particularly from the Mike Morant collection) show No 39 herself, before naming, with the squares with horizontal lines, although it is difficult to tell if the livery matches the Bachmann one. This view was outside Victoria but is undated, so not helpful, but shows one of each type of disc across the three lower lamp irons. Another view shows her in circa 1910 with one disc with cross and one square, but again seems to be before her naming.

 

It all seems very complicated, but I'll try to pick a 'safe' headcode.

[Dick Turpin]

 

It all seems very complicated, but I'll try to pick a 'safe' headcode.

 

When you do, can you post your findings here for the sake of interest. Thanks.

[Wickham Green]

From what I’ve read in books and seen on the internet I thought the D1/E1 was essentially the same class despite coming from different origin engines.

 

Big James

Rather depends whether you're happy to accept a 6'' coupled wheelbase difference, re-shuffling of other dimensions under a common boiler & plain or fluted coupling rods as 'essentially the same' ......... there was certainly a lot of interchange of tenders but you'll always spot the 'E' class origin by a the shallower running plate angle.

[Hal Nail]

I heard that the SECR D at the NRM had been scanned, by Hornby Maybe(?) a little while ago.. I'm not sure if that was a rumour, but I wouldn't be too surprised, seeing how popular the SECR liveried H and C class have been..

Lee Marsh are currently developing one in 7mm but I’ve no idea if they scanned it.

[Pre Grouping fan]

Having a look over my H1 and H2 whilst fitting some of the details.

 

Looking at images online of No. 39 or other H1's, it doesn't have the tarpaulin uprights and neither the the other uprights on the Coal rails. I understand them using the same body for both models for ease of production.

 

The cab roof doesn't feature the tarp fixings unlike the H2 which does. So confirms it shouldn't have the tender anchors.. But what are the uprights on the coal rails for? See pic attached for what I'm talking about