HST retirements and secondary deployments.

[royaloak]

Just as long as they don't go too fast (2+4 is not recommended for high speed.........)

 

Cheers,

Mick

Notch 5 locked out at the cubicle on both powercars, they will still be quick off the mark, 100mph max with only 4 trailers in between and no real chance of them going any faster as these will be used on stopping services where acceleration is more important.

[nightstar.train]

Shortest allowable formation for 125mph running is 2+5.

 

Maximum permitted speed for a 2+4 formation is 100mph, which is higher than any line speed west of Plymouth anyway. Acceleration should be pretty lively, though.

 

John

So will the two types of Scotrail ones have different top speeds or be treated as essentially the same? I don’t think that there’s any 125mph running north of Edinburgh and Glasgow, so treating them the same would make sense.

[badgerV8]

Slightly off-topic, but....  the main issue for the North of Scotland (Inverness to Aberdeen service)  is overcrowded trains. Despite continual multiple complaints, the operator maintains they are safe, even with 40 or 50 standees at times.... this is on sprinter-type trains, not sure of any class numbers for all this modern stuff, sorry! What's needed up here is 5-car units at peak times and 3-car the rest of the day, but I suspect we'll end up with 3-car units all day and the current problems of overcrowding will not be addressed in any way, other than standees fighting to remain upright within faster accelerating trains!

A pity they won't have valenta engines, would have been nice to hear them scream again as a train accelerates hard.

[Zomboid]

The HSTs and EGIP electrification will replace some DMUs, so there might be some possibility of increasing the service on that route using those trains.

I've no idea what will actually end up happening though.

['CHARD]

The HSTs and EGIP electrification will replace some DMUs, so there might be some possibility of increasing the service on that route using those trains.

I've no idea what will actually end up happening though.

 

EGIP is planned to be 100% EMU - I'm guessing mainly the 380s - once the Hitachi fleet is introduced.

 

Surplus 158s and 170s are transferring to Northern

[DY444]

EGIP is planned to be 100% EMU - I'm guessing mainly the 380s - once the Hitachi fleet is introduced.

 

Surplus 158s and 170s are transferring to Northern

 

EGIP is supposed to be 385s (the Hitachi units) but these have a couple of major problems which is delaying their introduction.

[Dunsignalling]

So will the two types of Scotrail ones have different top speeds or be treated as essentially the same? I don’t think that there’s any 125mph running north of Edinburgh and Glasgow, so treating them the same would make sense.

There's no mechanical or electrical difference to prevent a 2+4 HST from reaching 125mph, it's just not permitted for HST formations with that number of coaches.

 

Lower speed limits have long been applied to short train formations for reasons of limited brake force. For example, when Cross Country, in years of old, ran Class 47s on 6-coach formations to accelerated timings, the same speeds wouldn't have been allowed with fewer coaches.

 

It all becomes academic if there isn't the line speed to play with anyway.

 

John

[nightstar.train]

Slightly off-topic, but....  the main issue for the North of Scotland (Inverness to Aberdeen service)  is overcrowded trains. Despite continual multiple complaints, the operator maintains they are safe, even with 40 or 50 standees at times.... this is on sprinter-type trains, not sure of any class numbers for all this modern stuff, sorry! What's needed up here is 5-car units at peak times and 3-car the rest of the day, but I suspect we'll end up with 3-car units all day and the current problems of overcrowding will not be addressed in any way, other than standees fighting to remain upright within faster accelerating trains!

A pity they won't have valenta engines, would have been nice to hear them scream again as a train accelerates hard.

The main Aberdeen - Inverness services are going across to HST operation as I understand. The idea is that the HSTs are Inter7city, so they link Scotland’s 7 cities. I’m not sure if it’ll be a 2+4 or 2+5 though.

[black and decker boy]

Slightly off-topic, but.... the main issue for the North of Scotland (Inverness to Aberdeen service) is overcrowded trains. Despite continual multiple complaints, the operator maintains they are safe, even with 40 or 50 standees at times.... this is on sprinter-type trains, not sure of any class numbers for all this modern stuff, sorry! What's needed up here is 5-car units at peak times and 3-car the rest of the day, but I suspect we'll end up with 3-car units all day.....

I think it will simply be 2 or 4 as that’s what class 158s operate in and IIRC, it’s 158s that get the bulk of the semi-fast regional services going forward.

[Rivercider]

Does anyone know what services the GWR Gti HST is booked to cover?

Also I understand it has been stopped over the Easter weekend, is it likely to be in service tomorrow Tuesday?

 

cheers 

[royaloak]

Does anyone know what services the GWR Gti HST is booked to cover?

Also I understand it has been stopped over the Easter weekend, is it likely to be in service tomorrow Tuesday?

 

cheers

just seen it at Plymouth heading towards Penzance.

[159220]

Does anyone know what services the GWR Gti HST is booked to cover?

Also I understand it has been stopped over the Easter weekend, is it likely to be in service tomorrow Tuesday?

 

cheers

This might help, shared else where:

 

HST 2+4 (GTi) ‘Castle’ diagram GW01

 

2E12 0600 Penzance - Exeter 0916

2C45 0924 Exeter - Penzance 1234

2A85 1257 Penzance - Newton Abbot 1549

2P49 1555 Newton Abbot - Plymouth 1641

2C48 1755 Plymouth - Penzance 1951

2P96 20 18 Penzance - Plymouth 2121

2C54 22 42 Plymouth - Penzance 0040

Edited April 2, 2018 by 159220

[St. Simon]

Does anyone know what services the GWR Gti HST is booked to cover?

Also I understand it has been stopped over the Easter weekend, is it likely to be in service tomorrow Tuesday?

 

cheers 

 

I was under the impression that they were still in testing and weren't ready for passenger service yet?

 

Simon

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I feel a set of namings coming on here:

 

Andrew Castle

Barbara Castle

Roy Castle

 

er...................

[DY444]

I was under the impression that they were still in testing and weren't ready for passenger service yet?

 

Simon

 

It was in service last week

[159220]

I was under the impression that they were still in testing and weren't ready for passenger service yet?

 

Simon

GW01 started passenger service 27/03 or 29/03. For the life of me I cannot remember, but they are in service. Edited April 2, 2018 by 159220

[newbryford]

I feel a set of namings coming on here:

 

Andrew Castle

Barbara Castle

Roy Castle

 

er...................

 

Maybe the shortened formations for Scotland will have Hogwarts as one of them.......?

 

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Guest teacupteacup]

Maybe the shortened formations for Scotland will have Hogwarts as one of them.......?

 

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

Buckfast Castle?

[ba14eagle]

I feel a set of namings coming on here:

 

Andrew Castle

Barbara Castle

Roy Castle

 

er...................

 

Not forgetting the Arsenal legend - David (Ro)Castle

[Titan]

Sand Castle?

[JOHNMCDRAGON]

I was under the impression that they were still in testing and weren't ready for passenger service yet?

 

Simon

 

While on the 11.50 service from Peterborough to Ipswich yesterday  Easter Sunday,waiting for it to depart from Peterborough  I spotted an empty brand new GWR train  going southwards  stop at a signal then depart again.  Had pantographs but these seemed to be lowered.  Must be one's you're referring to.

[royaloak]

While on the 11.50 service from Peterborough to Ipswich yesterday  Easter Sunday,waiting for it to depart from Peterborough  I spotted an empty brand new GWR train  going southwards  stop at a signal then depart again.  Had pantographs but these seemed to be lowered.  Must be one's you're referring to.

He is on about the 2+4 HST set, what you saw was a class 800.

[St. Simon]

GW01 started passenger service 27/03 or 29/03. For the life of me I cannot remember, but they are in service.

I see, I must of missed the testing process!

 

Simon

[Rivercider]

This might help, shared else where:

 

HST 2+4 (GTi) ‘Castle’ diagram GW01

 

2E12 0600 Penzance - Exeter 0916

2C45 0924 Exeter - Penzance 1234

2A85 1257 Penzance - Newton Abbot 1549

2P49 1555 Newton Abbot - Plymouth 1641

2C48 1755 Plymouth - Penzance 1951

2P96 20 18 Penzance - Plymouth 2121

2C54 22 42 Plymouth - Penzance 0040

Thanks for that.

 

I have a day off today and am heading west, so will look out for it,

 

cheers

[david.hill64]

Shortest allowable formation for 125mph running is 2+5.

 

Maximum permitted speed for a 2+4 formation is 100mph, which is higher than any line speed west of Plymouth anyway. Acceleration should be pretty lively, though.

 

John

A long long time ago - when a replacement HST power car brake was being tested - I was part of the engineering team doing the tests. If you think that a 2+4 set will have lively acceleration then you can imagine what a 2+0 could do!

 

We had to argue with operations on WR to allow the tests to be done as light locos have always had a speed restriction. However, the argument that an HST power car was not a loco won the day and we were able to do the brake tests in both full service and emergency applications up to 125mph plus a bit. The tests proved conclusively that with the new brakes the power cars on their own were able to stop within the limits of the W125 curve (the applicable standard at the time) at all speeds. Soon after the brake pads on the trailer cars were changed to replace the asbestos containing smelly pads and subsequent brake tests were done with full formation sets which confirmed compliance with the standard.

 

Unless the system has changed again, I would expect that even a short 2+4 formation would meet the braking curve at all speeds up to 125mph on the grounds that every vehicle brakes its own weight. However, I would be concerned about repeated applications and brake fade. The acceleration of the 2+4 would be such that in theory it might be possible to make a rapid series of applications from 125mph leading to brake pad temperatures above the safe level. (When we did fade tests we would do three consecutive emergency applications from 125mph as quickly as possible - the braking distance for the third application had to remain within the brake curve). It seems eminently sensible to restrict the top speed of a 2+4 to prevent this happening.

 

None of the above was applicable to the HST as originally introduced. Then the braking effort of the power cars was halved at speeds over 90mph to try to prevent catastrophic damage to the brake discs. There was thus a parallel with conventional loco hauled stock where less effective loco brakes meant that compliance with the brake curve required a number of coaches to be present. Original HST's in short formations certainly had poor brake effort over 90mph with the deficiency getting worse as the number of coaches reduced. Conversely, below 90mph the brake performance improved as the formation diminished.

 

Happy days!