Another lets have ago at Virgin

[lmsforever]

On my facebook page yesterday a picture of a sight impaired person with his dog came up ,he was sitting in the vestibule and proceeded to slag off Branson for allowing him to travel this way.Turned out the conductor had failed to clear the appropriate seating area for him because passengers would not move ,but I could see an empty seat in the coach behind him.Most of the replies were having a go at Branson but I pointed out that if he was on advance ticket with seat reservation or a walk on with the same he had the seat by right. Had he forwarned the operator of his needs and had he done the same to the station.    If no seat was available in standard I would have thought he would have the oportunity to go to first class but he obviously chose to have a rant about Branson as though he was on the train. Quite a few posters said they did not believe him and said he had no need to sit in the vestibule.

[davefrk]

I think it's now called - doing a Corbyn....

 

Dave F.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Are you sure it wasn't a politically motivated stunt?

There's a small army of activists out there, carrying out a growing number of all sorts of politically motivated activities, from bombarding and trolling online forums and social media, to more direct forms of action.

 

 

.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Ron Ron Ron

[phil-b259]

Turned out the conductor had failed to clear the appropriate seating area for him because passengers would not move ,but I could see an empty seat in the coach behind him.Most of the replies were having a go at Branson but I pointed out that if he was on advance ticket with seat reservation or a walk on with the same he had the seat by right. Had he forwarned the operator of his needs and had he done the same to the station.    If no seat was available in standard I would have thought he would have the oportunity to go to first class but he obviously chose to have a rant about Branson as though he was on the train. Quite a few posters said they did not believe him and said he had no need to sit in the vestibule.

 

Strange as it may seem, conductors are not trained to forcably manhandle travellers from their seats should they refuse to move voluntarily. nor is occupying a seat reserved for someone else a matter requiring the attention of the BTP / delaying the train till the person moves. Quite what difference Messers Corbyn / McDonell / etc would make to this situation is unclear.

[Dave47549]

.

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Dave47549
Removed pointless guff

[woodenhead]

Strange as it may seem, conductors are not trained to forcably manhandle travellers from their seats should they refuse to move voluntarily. nor is occupying a seat reserved for someone else a matter requiring the attention of the BTP / delaying the train till the person moves. Quite what difference Messers Corbyn / McDonell / etc would make to this situation is unclear.

It's amazing how much the world revolves around manners and custom, one or two individuals sticking two fingers up to it can cause all sorts of problems

[Pete the Elaner]

I have never heard of someone refusing to move from a seat reserved for someone else if asked politely. Reserved seats are frequently unclaimed, particularly on commuter trains.

I have never heard of someone not giving up their seat for a disabled person or pregnant woman if asked. Commuters are quite often buried in their 'no eye contact' mode that they may not notice.

A friend of mine sat in 1st class when she was pregnant & standard was full. When her ticket was inspected, she was asked to inform a member of staff before doing this next time, but was not thrown out or charged extra. That seems pretty reasonable to me.

[woodenhead]

I've seen people refuse to move and once I told someone they couldn't shift the people from their seats as the people sat there were minors who had been left there by their mother who was elsewhere in the train.

 

How I ended up guardian to two children that day I don't know I was just another passenger on a train, I hadn't spoken to them, the mother just plonked them there and went off with a third child - old couple got on and asked them to move and i had to tell them no because they were children.  Luckily they understood the predicament and used a couple of other seats, the joys of Cross Country services during school holidays.

[jjb1970]

Where it gets interesting is if the reservations are not put out on board the train and then people get on and expect people to vacate seats with no reservation tag. I would give up my seat for a person more in need of a seat than me but wouldn't automatically get up if there was nothing to say the seat was reserved.

[phil-b259]

I have never heard of someone refusing to move from a seat reserved for someone else if asked politely. Reserved seats are frequently unclaimed, particularly on commuter trains.

 

 

Not seen it happen in person, but there is an abundance of testimony / videos on the internet (not all of them staged) which demonstrates this is a very real problem.

[Bernard Lamb]

He managed to get on the train and presumably he managed to complete his journey. He also had room to sit.

What more does he expect?

it's a good job he was not using the southern end of the WCML of peak this week. He probably would not have got through the doors.

It is half term and was very crowded yesterday with many family groups both to and from Euston.

First class was not opened up to all either. Was that just a grumpy person on duty or is that the policy of the new franchise?

Bernard

[Talltim]

Surely being blind means that you can’t see, not that you can’t sit on the floor?

[Oldddudders]

 

First class was not opened up to all either. Was that just a grumpy person on duty or is that the policy of the new franchise?

Bernard

 

Rock and a hard place. If you open up first class to others, is the first-class-fare-payer entitled to a refund? He/she might well think so. 

[Mad McCann]

Are you sure it wasn't a politically motivated stunt?

There's a small army of activists out there, carrying out a growing number of all sorts of politically motivated activities, from bombarding and trolling online forums and social media, to more direct forms of action.

 

 

.

Nothing wrong with being an activist.

It’s often a good sign of a lack of apathy.

 

D4.

[woodenhead]

People sat in Reserved Seats isn't a matter of overcrowding it is just a confirmation that there are people out there who are rude - that's not a political concern.

 

It just proves that reservations are based on goodwill and unenforceable, if the person wanted to make proper statement of this the place would be in a court of law to prove whether or not a train company should forcibly evict a paying passenger who has sat in a seat that was reserved for someone else.

 

As no-one pays for a reservation then do they have any more right to a seat than someone else, it gets more problematical when you consider that Advance tickets are much cheaper than a walk on fare - who deserves the better service the person who paid £23 for an Advance or the walk on who paid £170 for the same type of seat on the same train?  Of course they deserve the same treatment but it might not feel that way to the person who has paid 8 times more for a place on the train.

[Mad McCann]

I’m not really sure however why any decent, able bodied person wouldn’t have given their seat up for someone in this situation though.

I wouldn’t have given it a moments’ hesitation and I doubt whether any of you guys would have either.

If this is just a bit of political AstroTurf it’s a very cynical one. I’m no fan of Branson, given his behaviour around the NHS among other things but I would be very disappointed if this was a staged event. As much as I will be if people genuinely left the guy out there like that.

Disappointed but not necessarily surprised, bearing in mind the age and place we live in.

 

D4

[Reorte]

Where it gets interesting is if the reservations are not put out on board the train and then people get on and expect people to vacate seats with no reservation tag. I would give up my seat for a person more in need of a seat than me but wouldn't automatically get up if there was nothing to say the seat was reserved.

It's worse now on some trains where seats can be reserved after the train's set off. You can sit down at an unreserved seat and someone will come along later and expect you to move. I can see that one getting nasty at some point, if it hasn't already. If it's paper tickets and there's nothing there I'd probably move if someone showed me they had a reservation for a seat I was in but no ticket, people do sometimes go and pull them out. Moving for someone with a genuine need for a seat's a different matter altogether, just basic good manners.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Reorte

[chrisf]

One one of my days in paradise - sorry, journeys on the WCML - I boarded at Milton Keynes and found someone sitting in my reserved seat.  When I pointed this out he responded that he had been booked on the preceding train which had been cancelled.  As a result all reservations on 'our' train had also been cancelled.  Fortunately I did not have to stand all the way to Manchester as the man and his partner kindly took it in turns to give up their seats.  It would have been churlish to refuse.

 

Chris

[woodenhead]

It's worse now on some trains where seats can be reserved after the train's set off. You can sit down at an unreserved seat and someone will come along later and expect you to move. I can see that one getting nasty at some point, if it hasn't already. If it's paper tickets and there's nothing there I'd probably move if someone showed me they had a reservation for a seat I was in but no ticket, people do sometimes go and pull them out. Moving for someone with a genuine need for a seat's a different matter altogether, just basic good manners.

I was on my way to Birmingham one Saturday and the train had left Manchester so all us standing sat in seats that had been reserved from Manchester, not long after Stockport a load of people turned up asking for their reserved seats.

 

On the one hand it looked like a mob rule eviction as it was a large group of men but on the other hand it could simply have been they all booked separately but decided to all sit together elsewhere till they had been asked to move and chose to go back to their reserved seats.  I vacated my seat as to be fair I hadn't got a reservation and no-one was being rude or demanding.

[chriswright03]

On my facebook page yesterday a picture of a sight impaired person with his dog came up ,he was sitting in the vestibule and proceeded to slag off Branson for allowing him to travel this way.Turned out the conductor had failed to clear the appropriate seating area for him because passengers would not move ,but I could see an empty seat in the coach behind him.Most of the replies were having a go at Branson but I pointed out that if he was on advance ticket with seat reservation or a walk on with the same he had the seat by right. Had he forwarned the operator of his needs and had he done the same to the station.    If no seat was available in standard I would have thought he would have the oportunity to go to first class but he obviously chose to have a rant about Branson as though he was on the train. Quite a few posters said they did not believe him and said he had no need to sit in the vestibule.

 

 

I’m not really sure however why any decent, able bodied person wouldn’t have given their seat up for someone in this situation though.

I wouldn’t have given it a moments’ hesitation and I doubt whether any of you guys would have either.

If this is just a bit of political AstroTurf it’s a very cynical one. I’m no fan of Branson, given his behaviour around the NHS among other things but I would be very disappointed if this was a staged event. As much as I will be if people genuinely left the guy out there like that.

Disappointed but not necessarily surprised, bearing in mind the age and place we live in.

 

D4

It would appear there was a seat so perhaps all is not as it seems.

[rodent279]

I can't be bothered trying to turf people out of a seat I have reserved. Certainly not if there's other seats available.

I think either you make all long distance services compulsory reservation, or none at all, except for customers with a special requirement.

[The Stationmaster]

People sat in Reserved Seats isn't a matter of overcrowding it is just a confirmation that there are people out there who are rude - that's not a political concern.

 

It just proves that reservations are based on goodwill and unenforceable, if the person wanted to make proper statement of this the place would be in a court of law to prove whether or not a train company should forcibly evict a paying passenger who has sat in a seat that was reserved for someone else.

 

As no-one pays for a reservation then do they have any more right to a seat than someone else, it gets more problematical when you consider that Advance tickets are much cheaper than a walk on fare - who deserves the better service the person who paid £23 for an Advance or the walk on who paid £170 for the same type of seat on the same train?  Of course they deserve the same treatment but it might not feel that way to the person who has paid 8 times more for a place on the train.

 

Er no.  It is against the Byelaws, and therefore an offence, to sit in a reserved seat if that seat is not reserved for you unless an authorised person has given you permission to sit there.  Byelaw 19

['CHARD]

On my facebook page yesterday a picture of a sight impaired person with his dog came up ,he was sitting in the vestibule and proceeded to slag off Branson for allowing him to travel this way.Turned out the conductor had failed to clear the appropriate seating area for him because passengers would not move ,but I could see an empty seat in the coach behind him.Most of the replies were having a go at Branson but I pointed out that if he was on advance ticket with seat reservation or a walk on with the same he had the seat by right. Had he forwarned the operator of his needs and had he done the same to the station.    If no seat was available in standard I would have thought he would have the oportunity to go to first class but he obviously chose to have a rant about Branson as though he was on the train. Quite a few posters said they did not believe him and said he had no need to sit in the vestibule.

 

Just a general social media observation here. 

 

I am aware of the photo to which you refer, it went viral best part of a year ago, and resurfaces sporadically like a chain letter or pyramid scheme.

 

So now it's not just old news, it's probably fake news too!  

[Mad McCann]

Which just underlined the point that you really shouldn’t take anything at face value.

I generally have a pretty well - developed BS detector but yes, even I still get caught out on occasion.

 

D4.

[woodenhead]

Er no.  It is against the Byelaws, and therefore an offence, to sit in a reserved seat if that seat is not reserved for you unless an authorised person has given you permission to sit there.  Byelaw 19

But if no-one will enforce it what is the point