Hornby to end the Thomas the Tank Engine range

[The Johnster]

i would say this is the correct move for H; Thomas does not need to be a model and is probably more suited to the toy market.  Thomas's readers probably top out at about 7 or 8 years of age.  

[Legend]

Awe no . It’s like Ravens and the Tower of London

[doilum]

Inflated prices? Yes and no. £110 at today's money is probably cheaper than the first A3 that Triang/Hornby brought out in 1969(?) at iirc £5.19s.6d.

 

And that didn't even have a face on it!

Sneaking into my first pubs, beer was 1/10 a pint. Six quid would have easily bought 60 pints. It is difficult to price beer now, tonight, I will pay £1.60 or £3.30 depending where I go. Either way, even allowing for 25% purchase tax, that A3 looked expensive.

[andyram]

I have just read the statement for Hornby and, whilst it does represent the end of an era, there are some interesting points to consider. Hornby states "changing trends affecting the target area demographic" and "toy safety restrictions on the TTTE electric train sets" as being reasons for their decision. As stated above, TTTE seems to now be aimed at a much younger age than it perhaps once was. Yes it has always appealed to the very young, but as has been said once a child gets beyond 6 they have probably outgrown TTTE. There are also lots of other rival characters in the toy range. The electric TTTE train sets are no longer age appropriate and the rising prices, partly caused by the licensing, puts these toys / models at a price far in excess of what many parents would pay for a toy for that age range. 

 Hornby has tried to provide other entry level sets with the introduction of the Junior set, although I think this has failed. Perhaps they should have looked at cheaper, clockwork or battery operated sets. However these types of TTTE sets are already produced by another toy manufacturer. 

 Yes it may be a cost cutting measure, but I think in the current climate it was an inevitable decision.

[Legend]

Sneaking into my first pubs, beer was 1/10 a pint. Six quid would have easily bought 60 pints. It is difficult to price beer now, tonight, I will pay £1.60 or £3.30 depending where I go. Either way, even allowing for 25% purchase tax, that A3 looked expensive.

But you wouldn’t have given your 1969 A3 to your kid just as you wouldn’t give your£110 Gordon to your kid . The point being they are too expensive for toys your 3 to 5 year old can play with

[jamespetts]

This is interesting. From what I understand, Hornby, which has been in some financial difficulties for a few years, had something of an internal battle for control between rival factions of directors a few years ago: one faction wanted to position Hornby more towards its traditional market of children's toys, and the other wanted to focus more on serious models for the adult market. In the end, the dispute was, from what I read, resolved by the directors favouring the serious models approach buying out those favouring the children's toys approach. This was circa late 2016.

 

Hornby's financial position has remained, from the reports that I have read, in a poor state since then, and this news seems to be consistent with the approach of the faction of directors who retained control.

 

I suspect that train sets in general as children's toys are losing market share to other sorts of children's toys - which in many ways is rather a shame, as I recall that my own interest in railways was sparked when my father bought me a Hornby train set at age 3. Nevertheless, those (I suspect all in this forum) who fall into the serious models for the adult market category might take some comfort from the fact that this decision is consistent with a strategy of focussing on that segment of the market.

[jjb1970]

I'd have thought the Trackmaster system much more appropriate for TTE, it's more child friendly, has more play value and is a lot cheaper. How many children are really going to be knocked over by a TTE engine and two coaches running around an oval of track when they could be playing on a console game or tablet or any number of other toys with far more play value? And how many parents will make the effort to develop a proper little railway for their kids based on TTE?

I think the Hornby entry range probably needs to pitched at the hobbyist market with good but lower cost models of real trains. Basically what they produce with the new generation Railroad tooling and the better ex-Lima tooling.

[APOLLO]

 

Brit15

[Il Grifone]

Inflated prices? Yes and no. £110 at today's money is probably cheaper than the first A3 that Triang/Hornby brought out in 1969(?) at iirc £5.19s.6d.

 

And that didn't even have a face on it!

 

A bit less really with the excuse that the A3 was made at Margate and Gordon hails from China.

 

According to this site it would be £99 roughly (one can only guesstimate...).

 

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1633409/Historic-inflation-calculator-value-money-changed-1900.html

 

As regards marketing, I visited the local Toys'R' Us in the hope of some train (or even Meccano) bargains (Grifone scavenging again ). I should have known better, as their range was to say the least very limited (and rubbish).

 

As a guide to age, I was still four* when I received a Dublo 'Duchess of Atholl' for Xmas. I still have her and most of the rolling stock that came with her. (All wagons - rationing/shortages affected supply. I didn't get a coach until later in the year.

 

* Nearly five - I was born in January 1947 (the coldest winter of the century).

Edited April 20, 2018 by Il Grifone

[bike2steam]

Maybe Mattel over charging on a dying, outdated name, Bachmann going to take it on - we'll see ??

[Hroth]

 

Brit15

By 'eck!!!

 

You've got some ruddy big ravens around your way!

[brianusa]

Maybe Mattel over charging on a dying, outdated name, Bachmann going to take it on - we'll see ??

 

Business news over here mentioned Mattel stocks aren't what they were and along with TRU and its problems, the toy world is changing.

 

Brian.

[tomparryharry]

HiT entertainment have screwed the life out of Thomas. Such is the extent, that several large Thomas events have (had) been cancelled, purely because of the financial implications of running the event.  

 

I'd guess that things like royalty payments cut deeply into any profit margins, with other interested parties having a say in how you can (or, in this case, cant) market 'your' product.

 

Little wonder that Hornby have probably taken a difficult but necessary business decision.

 

 

However, That leaves Hornby the space to focus on top-notch product. More power to them, I say!

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[Mike at C&M]

Hornby state that ".....plus the toy safety restrictions on the Thomas & Friends electric train sets, we have taken the difficult decision not to continue the Thomas licence"

This comment intrigues me. What on earth can be perceived as dangerous within a Thomas train set?

 

As a retailer, I better be prepared to make a lot of youngsters and their parents very disappointed in the future.

[robertcwp]

I heard from someone pretty high up in a well-known preserved railway that they didn't do Thomas events because the cost and other assorted requirements were such that they would not have made any money out of them. They did other themed events where they were more in control and didn't have to pay large fees to a rights holder. 

 

I was a massive fan of the books when I was young and remember receiving the last of the original series, 26 Tramway Engines, as a present when it was new. 'Tenders for Henry' remains my favourite story, from Enterprising Engines, the book in which Flying Scotsman, with two tenders, visited Sodor.

 

I'm encouraged by Hornby's move away from Thomas. Hopefully they can focus more on the quality end of the market. 

[jjb1970]

When my kiddies were younger we used to enjoy going to Quainton Road for Thomas days and always had a thoroughly good time. They've both grown out of it now though.

Edited April 20, 2018 by jjb1970

[tomparryharry]

This comment intrigues me. What on earth can be perceived as dangerous within a Thomas train set?

 

As a retailer, I better be prepared to make a lot of youngsters and their parents very disappointed in the future.

Probably a 'rights owner' demanding that you, as a manufacturer, take on a hefty chunk of public liability insurance, in case 'little Johnny' drops a plastic locomotive on the foot of said child, and the parent of 'little Johnny' suing the pants off Hornby.

 

Naturally HiT would like this insurance, but not to actually pay for this insurance. The way to 'pass the buck' is to load it onto people like Hornby. The camel can carry so many straws.

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[brianusa]

I heard from someone pretty high up in a well-known preserved railway that they didn't do Thomas events because the cost and other assorted requirements were such that they would not have made any money out of them. They did other themed events where they were more in control and didn't have to pay large fees to a rights holder. 

 

I was a massive fan of the books when I was young and remember receiving the last of the original series, 26 Tramway Engines, as a present when it was new. 'Tenders for Henry' remains my favourite story, from Enterprising Engines, the book in which Flying Scotsman, with two tenders, visited Sodor.

 

I'm encouraged by Hornby's move away from Thomas. Hopefully they can focus more on the quality end of the market. 

 

There have been numerous remarks such as these over the years both over here and in the UK.  But even in the US, Thomas brought more families to railways where otherwise there would be no family interest and certainly no kids crying for Thomas presents, who would perhaps turn into fully fledged model train enthusiasts.  Without Thomas pulling in the crowds, there might be even less resources for 'the quality end of the market'!

 

Brian.

[tomparryharry]

There have been numerous remarks such as these over the years both over here and in the UK.  But even in the US, Thomas brought more families to railways where otherwise there would be no family interest and certainly no kids crying for Thomas presents, who would perhaps turn into fully fledged model train enthusiasts.  Without Thomas pulling in the crowds, there might be even less resources for 'the quality end of the market'!

 

Brian.

 

Sorry Brian, but sometimes not. Some events have so much tied down, that it's easier to stand outside, with a bucket of pound coins, and give them away. Also, cheaper!

 

The overhead costs don't always add up.

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[autocoach]

This comment intrigues me. What on earth can be perceived as dangerous within a Thomas train set?

 

As a retailer, I better be prepared to make a lot of youngsters and their parents very disappointed in the future.

My local hobby shop (being in the US) carries an extensive line of Brio Thomas trains and has a low play table in the store set up with track, trains and structures for kids to play with while Dad or Mom shop for real train models. Not much call for the Bachmann electric Thomas line. Hornby OO/HO line cannot be marketed as Bachmann has US franchise.  The table is so low that adults don't try to play with it.  Unless some tykes get angry and start throwing them at each other, they are reasonably safe.

Edited April 20, 2018 by autocoach

[andyram]

A bit less really with the excuse that the A3 was made at Margate and Gordon hails from China.

 

According to this site it would be £99 roughly (one can only guesstimate...).

 

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1633409/Historic-inflation-calculator-value-money-changed-1900.html

 

As regards marketing, I visited the local Toys'R' Us in the hope of some train (or even Meccano) bargains (Grifone scavenging again ). I should have known better, as their range was to say the least very limited (and rubbish).

 

As a guide to age, I was still four* when I received a Dublo 'Duchess of Atholl' for Xmas. I still have her and most of the rolling stock that came with her. (All wagons - rationing/shortages affected supply. I didn't get a coach until later in the year.

 

* Nearly five - I was born in January 1947 (the coldest winter of the century).

 

Toys R Us never carried a decent Hornby range. It only ever stocked a couple of sets - mainly the TTTE, a traditional 0-4-0 saddle tank set and the ubiquitous Flying Scotsman / Mallard sets. Recently this expanded to include the Hornby Junior set.

 

HiT entertainment have screwed the life out of Thomas. Such is the extent, that several large Thomas events have (had) been cancelled, purely because of the financial implications of running the event.  

 

I'd guess that things like royalty payments cut deeply into any profit margins, with other interested parties having a say in how you can (or, in this case, cant) market 'your' product.

 

Little wonder that Hornby have probably taken a difficult but necessary business decision.

 

 

However, That leaves Hornby the space to focus on top-notch product. More power to them, I say!

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

 

 

I totally agree. I am a volunteer down at the Great Central and they used to do an excellent TTTE event during the summer holidays - it lasted for 10 days and was always packed out. Thomas was hired in, sometimes with Percy and they would top and tail on short workings between Loughborough and Quorn. There would be a fairground in the car park and Toby would shuttle up and down the delivery siding whilst full line trains would run with the appropriate smokebox face. A DMU would be turned out as Daisy, running to Rothley and an old bus would run between Quorn car park and the event car park.

 We even ran the "Lost Guard" story one year with visitors having to track down the lost guard on the train. If they found him they would get a competition slip stamped allowing them to enter a draw for a free family ticket to a future event.

 Sadly the event was cut back and abandoned due to rise in license payments and growing list of do's and don'ts including the Fat Controller course that anyone wanting to play him needed to take. All staff, including those not in contact with the public needed to have an advanced CRB check which also cost money. 

[PaulRhB]

Skarloey (Perhaps if they hold the licence over here we'll see 'Skarloey's Twin' produced? )

Rheneas (Same again.)

.

Nope as Mattel own the license to the tooling so it can only be used for the TTTE characters, it's been discussed before

[Kim]

I am not surprised even though it is a shame because TTTE just about saved Hornby from going under at one stage.

However, I do not agree that TTTE toy trains brought that many youngsters to the hobby as such. 20+ years ago, the thing that attracted my son was not the Hornby train sets but the TTTE series on the TV with Ringo Star. That and the series of books based on the TV series with audio cassettes which were based on the TV series rather than the original books. At the time many said that it was that TV series which kept the ailing (at the time) Hornby company going and got them over a bad patch. Once over it, mainly by closing the Margate production and out sourcing, they have become what they are today.

Yes my son wanted a trainset but it was or had to be to relive the TV series rather than the books. So it had to have the windmill, the nixells (signals) and other parts of the more common TV series. He also wanted to go to the preserved railways to see Thomas as he had seen him on TV. If Peppa Pig and or other more current children's TV characters can attract youngsters' and their parents to the preserved railways on "special" days, then that is probably more cost effective for those railways.


 

[newbryford]

I don't know how many of you reading this frequent the ebay madness thread but......

 

if Hornby could have sold them at this price, the shareholders would be bathing in milk....

 

Ta to JMU for the link

 

Cheers,

Mick

[PaulRhB]

I don't know how many of you reading this frequent the ebay madness thread but......

 

if Hornby could have sold them at this price, the shareholders would be bathing in milk....

 

Ta to JMU for the link

 

Cheers,

Mick

Have a look at the N gauge Tomix versions

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F152988973875

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F152974236599