Class 66 in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[JohnC]

On 16/03/2021 at 11:15, classy52 said:

 

No worries thanks.

Not ready to pull apart Hattons 66's just yet but will reach that level eventually in time.

I might actually buy a dead Hatton's 66 if it's below £70 and have a go at dismantling it and not worrying about killing a running one and just keep it for parts like adb968008 has been doing...sounds like a plan.

I have taken the plunge and my DB Red loco is now in Maritime blue and about to become 66051Maritime Intermodal number 4.

Really easy to take apart and, once complete, will post on here.

John

[adb968008]

5 hours ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

 

Why is 743 so unliked,its the only 200+ one now......

 

Dunno, but the plain livery lends itself to resprays, only thing is looking through the list, theres not a lot it could be resprayed as, that hasnt already been done.

 

 

[TomScrut]

I bet this will be on people's want list! Thanks @big jim

 

 

 

[No Decorum]

22 hours ago, classy52 said:

 

Some very good points which I also feel Hattons need to adopt as follows;

 

1. Implement your own Warranty Repair Service or contract out to an authorized repairer for warranty jobs as sending back for a refund on a lot of these 66's is simply not an option due to being sold out (as I mentioned in one of my posts above).

2. Re-design the Axle Box feature which includes the bogie frames , axle box covers & axle stub lengths, I and many others have literally eliminated the wobble by drilling out the bogie frame holes using a 3.2mm drill bit, removing the excess spring moulding's off the back of 2 bogie frames per loco and re-gluing the AB's back onto the axle stub which is also too short (credits to adb968008 & Peter Dixon on YT).

3. Re-design the lighting board connections for the large bug-eyed light variants, maybe under warranty this repair or correction should have been contracted out to someone like Illuminated Models who have a fix in place but whether something like that is feasible or not is different matter entirely.

4. Perhaps take another look on how you attach the fine detail which is currently glued to the body which isn't ideal and problematic when removing the body, as with adb968008 I have resorted to start gluing the step handrails to the body thus reversing what Hattons have implemented which seems to work ok atm when taking the body off.

6. Pay more attention to livery colour (Freightliner G&W, use correct orange shade), livery positioning (Colas) and livery fonts (EWS) and get them right, also there was an issue with another Freightliner variant where above the air dams the yellow application wasn't correct?

5. Perhaps take a look at the quality control or quality of the motor/driveshafts assembly, I've had 3 fail on me already which seems to be related to this area of the model or perhaps I was just unlucky and not really an issue?

 

If Hattons are considering run No.2 with the above re-developed/re-designed and implemented then IMO they'll have a license to print money on making further Class 66's because with this batch practically sold out barring a few liveries they must have made a healthy return on their tooling investment, obviously there are other factors to consider such as their return rate and parts issuance but pretty confident they would be pleased with this project.

That’s an excellent summary. I’m not so convinced that Hatton’s has made a healthy return on the tooling investment. After all, there has had to be heavy discounting to shift them. What I can say is that I haven¹t been tempted to get one but it would be a different matter if a second run appeared with all the faults corrected. I wouldn’t want more than one, though. That is the peril of a new tooling of something which already exists.

[Roy Langridge]

A Class 66 in Trainload Construction anybody: 66793

Roy

[TomScrut]

24 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

A Class 66 in Trainload Construction anybody: 66793

Roy

 

That's what I posted 2 posts up 

 

I was however not very specific.

 

Having thought about it more in reality this would need tooling mods, buffers lights and horn grilles the obvious ones to me (I'm sure there will be more)

[Roy Langridge]

1 minute ago, TomScrut said:

 

That's what I posted 2 posts up 

 

I was however not very specific.

 

Having thought about it more in reality this would need tooling mods, buffers lights and horn grilles the obvious ones to me (I'm sure there will be more)

 

 

Oops - I clicked to go to the start of the thread and didn't go through 271 pages. Sorry. Your text was too subtle as to what I was expected to find 

Roy

[andyman7]

57 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

That’s an excellent summary. I’m not so convinced that Hatton’s has made a healthy return on the tooling investment. After all, there has had to be heavy discounting to shift them. 

But remember there's no retailer middleman with these

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, TomScrut said:

 

That's what I posted 2 posts up 

 

I was however not very specific.

 

Having thought about it more in reality this would need tooling mods, buffers lights and horn grilles the obvious ones to me (I'm sure there will be more)

Its the same bodyside as 66792, which they havent produced...

 

it doesnt have the extra bodyside door, but does have the revised cabside windows, and LED lights.

 

You could make it by taking a Low Emission bodyside/LED Wipac example, say 66731 /  66433 for example, and cutting off the cabs and swapping with a Standard bodyside example such as the ECR examples.. then changing the buffers & horn grill.

 

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by adb968008

[newbryford]

19 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Its the same bodyside as 66792, which they havent produced...

 

it doesnt have the extra bodyside door, but does have the revised cabside windows, and LED lights.

 

You could make it by taking a Low Emission bodyside/LED Wipac example, say 66727/  66433 for example, and cutting off the cabs and swapping with a Standard bodyside example such as the ECR examples.. then changing the buffers & horn grill.

 

 

 

Just perfect to make a "1 from 2" with all the cheap/dodgy ones......

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, newbryford said:

 

Just perfect to make a "1 from 2" with all the cheap/dodgy ones......

Thats what i’m hoping for.. I want to do 66792... its easier as it doesn't have the pinochio horn grill, that 793 has, but it does have shortened handrails, which isnt that hard.

 

but you do need 2 as theirs a chassis swap required too (long vs short tanks).

 

if you bought a 66731 (first gbrf) and a 66033/218 (ECR), plus a fine saw & some glue you’d have what you need.

 

On 793 just noticed the curved airdam and single step.. easy mod and good solution if you've lost those flimsy steps, but the ECR ones have this.

 

We just need some really knackered ones to come to market, so far the knackers have been.. well not very knackered..indeed they recover nicely.

 

So 66794.. Red Stripe Railfreight ?

 

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by adb968008

[TomScrut]

2 hours ago, andyman7 said:

But remember there's no retailer middleman with these

 

Which is probably why they were £150 to begin with. What would the others be charging for something with that level of detail?

[rockmonkey]

4 hours ago, TomScrut said:

I bet this will be on people's want list! Thanks @big jim

 

 

 

I would buy a 66793 in the Trainload Construction livery, let’s hope the manufacturers are listening!

[adb968008]

Hattons track record on re-run of commissions isnt great.

 

10000’s, 14xx, ICI hoppers, barclays, P’s..none of them came back.

Even the Heljan comissions (14, 28, Garratt) only came back as general issue models.

 

I could propose another theory..

in that removing the 66 removes the competition breach in the Bachmann agreement and maybe, if that was the issue, opens the door to re-engage.. that may be worth more than repeat runs of 66’s... indeed you might even see an EFE 66 that way too, its just a thought.

 

on the price.. compare it to the Dapol 59.. its £130 after discount, from £154 rrp.. Hattons doesnt have a middleman taking their margin, and i’m sure the 36x3 (DC, DCC & Sound) different versions made attracted a better volume discount than the 4x3 class 59’s being made... if 59’s sell slow, £119 could follow and retailers as well as Dapol still make a margin.

 

I cannot see another run of Hattons 66’s under £150, but when the market is used to £119.. upselling to c£180+ is a big leap...and big risk.. I reckon at £119 theyve still done very well, and if so, theres no need to take the risk... move on.

Edited March 22, 2021 by adb968008

[Sir TophamHatt]

Remember though, we are thinking like consumers not like a business.

 

Why would any business set up a whole new (and costly) warranty department when they can just be half honest in the description and re-sell any returns?

 

Even if they're only making £19 worth of profit on the £119 models 1) At least that's profit  2) Money in their bank  3) If all are sold, it will be seen as a successful venture.

 

While some people have bought at full price, others have likely spent more at the lower price. For example, someone may have only bought 3 at the £150 price, but at £119, they're a steal so have bought 10, thus spending more money than initially planned. More money for Hattons to invest with as I highly doubt they would be selling them at a loss at £119.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Sir TophamHatt

[newbryford]

2 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

More money for Hattons to invest with as I highly doubt they would be selling them at a loss at £119.

 

No way will the £119 be a loss.

I'll bet the £99 of some of the recent PO/returns is still a profit.

 

[truffy]

13 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Hattons track record on re-run of commissions isnt great.

 

10000’s, 14xx, ICI hoppers, barclays, P’s..none of them came back.

And yet, just two threads down:

 

Unless I’ve missed the point. It happens 

[Pre Grouping fan]

13 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

10000’s, 14xx, ICI hoppers, barclays, P’s..none of them came back.

 

I the case of the Barclays they still have a load in stock and they are on discount from From £99 to £84 I wouldn't want anymore new versions to come in only for them to be stuck on the shelves as well after the initial rush of preorders. 

[adb968008]

53 minutes ago, truffy said:

And yet, just two threads down:

 

Unless I’ve missed the point. It happens 

The second run was a repeat of the first.

it did not introduce new numbers & liveries.

it was a follow on of the first order, it was very short behind the first.

 

so its not what i mean, and think you knew that.

 

 

[adb968008]

49 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

 

I the case of the Barclays they still have a load in stock and they are on discount from From £99 to £84 I wouldn't want anymore new versions to come in only for them to be stuck on the shelves as well after the initial rush of preorders. 

Which is also where we are with class 66’s.

i’d like more Barclays in new liveries too, but I dont see them happening either.

 

on the glass half full side, Hattons used to announce something Autumn and Spring, since the “me too and I started before you” policy started by some manufacturers, announcements have gone to ground. My hope is that the activity continues beneath the surface, and will suddenly be thrust upon us very close to release.

 

clearing decks of older supplies is usually a trend of something new coming, though Hattons does have 372 different coaches coming.. that will take space & eat cash too... personally I think fake victorian coaches is all shirt and no trousers, a lot of noise and a good idea thats critical to just a few people, seems to be a lot of them about, so i’m not sure how adding 372 new versions helps.

Edited March 23, 2021 by adb968008

[truffy]

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

The second run was a repeat of the first.

it did not introduce new numbers & liveries.

it was a follow on of the first order, it was very short behind the first.

 

I had tried to link to Dave's post on page 47, specifically:

 

On 07/06/2018 at 12:01, Hattons Dave said:

I've got an exciting announcement for you today. I can reveal that we will be releasing four more versions of our SECR P Class locomotives.

 

Based on the feedback we've received, we are producing further locomotives in SECR lined green and BR black with new running numbers and, for the first time, we are producing the two members of the class used by the Railway Operating Division in France during World War One, commemorating an important part of the history of the class.

 

<snip>

 

A point to note is that 27 in SECR lined green will feature a new colour for the polished brass dome and safety valve. The new colour represents polished brass, which is halfway between our original release of P Classes 753 and 178; and Hornby's H Class.

 

So, no, I don't know what you mean!

Edited March 23, 2021 by truffy
clarification

[adb968008]

59 minutes ago, truffy said:

 

I had tried to link to Dave's post on page 47, specifically:

 

 

So, no, I don't know what you mean!

Fair enough I didnt realise.

but 1 model out of a dozen doesn't make a trend, but an exception.

 

I’m sure there was a wagon they re-released some extras I cant recall which... but then add that to Warwells, Beilhacks, RHTT etc.. they are once use so far too.

So to rephrase, for nit pickers... “most” arent re-released in any short time frame.

 

I maintain, much as i’d like more 66’s released, I think they would be mad to do so in the next few years, even more so if they did it without making some tooling tweaks... which is hh:mm & £.

 

i’m guessing which factory in China is making them, but if so, think they probably have a full / delayed order book for sometime anyway.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by adb968008

[truffy]

19 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

but 1 model out of a dozen doesn't make a trend, but an exception.

 

Since Hattons are a commercial entity, I'll hazard a guess that it reflects what sells well and what doesn't. It would be more likely be that consideration that drives a re-run, rather than any (perceived) general reticence in doing so.

 

If you consider that yo be 'nit-picking', so be it. (shrug)

Edited March 23, 2021 by truffy

[YesTor]

On 23/03/2021 at 14:46, adb968008 said:

I maintain, much as i’d like more 66’s released, I think they would be mad to do so in the next few years, even more so if they did it without making some tooling tweaks... which is hh:mm & £.

 

 

The only parts that need 'tweaking' are the axleboxes:  longer axle + new axlebox = job done - hardly a major tooling investment.  Apart from that there's nothing actually 'wrong' with the tooling as it is.  I think some people are over-analyzing here. 

 

Neither can I see why they'd need to wait "a few more years" - plenty of liveries as yet untouched, and new liveries appearing on 66s all the time.  Plenty of alternative versions of liveries already done in the first batch that could be done as well.  To be quite honest, I really can't see what everyone is getting in a twist about.

 

Best

Al

Edited March 26, 2021 by YesTor

[JohnC]

Have attached a couple of photographs of my first Hattons 66 re-spray. I managed to get a well reduced DB Red example and now have a Maritime Blue 66051 Maritime Intermodal Four.

The loco was a lot easier to disassemble and reassemble than a Bachmann 66!