Daily Mail article not good press for Kent and East Sussex

[Fat Controller]

Regarding the crossing, will it be a full blown one with barriers etc or one like the Leighton Buzzard railway where the train stops and is then flagged across?

The A21, the road which must be crossed, is busy with fast-moving traffic, so it'll be a full-blown 'Bells and Whistles' affair.

[Zomboid]

The A21, the road which must be crossed, is busy with fast-moving traffic, so it'll be a full-blown 'Bells and Whistles' affair.

Probably train crew operated, though. Cheaper and more in keeping with a light railway.

[Nearholmer]

The stoomtram horn medemblik, in the Netherlands, which is a somewhat similar preserved LR, has a marvellous LC across a huge, multi-lane bypass road, where the train crew presses a button and brings the stream of road vehicles to a halt, before puffing slowly across.

 

It can be done!

Edited May 15, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Fat Controller]

Probably train crew operated, though. Cheaper and more in keeping with a light railway.

It's not so much the Light Railway that sets the standard, but the Heavy Road. There was a recent incident down here where a crossing-keeper was severely injured whilst trying to close the gates against road traffic; that was on a route considerably less busy than the A21, a road which already has a poor safety record. The K&ESR itself had a serious accident a few years ago, in similar circumstances.

[The Stationmaster]

The stoomtram horn medemblik, in the Netherlands, which is a somewhat similar preserved LR, has a marvellous LC across a huge, multi-lane bypass road, where the train crew presses a button and brings the stream of road vehicles to a halt, before puffing slowly across.

 

It can be done!

 

And it has been done in Britain - the Cholsey and Wallingford line has an AHB crossing over the rather busy, and definitely fast. Wallingford bypass.  Reasonable amount of hoohah when it was originally proposed but the railway was there first and it was of course extant when the bypass was built.  But broken down to its basic elements - possibly apart from the Traffic Moment numbers - it's no different from the K&ESR crossing the A21 (or the A21 crossing the K&ESR)  and the Traffic Moment numbers plus any road topographic detail will decide whether or not a crossing is 'safe' and what form it will be required to take.  Alas from their viewpoint I would think the average farmer, however bright he or she might be, is hardly qualified or competent to pass an objective technical judgement on the issue.

[009 micro modeller]

And it has been done in Britain - the Cholsey and Wallingford line has an AHB crossing over the rather busy, and definitely fast. Wallingford bypass. Reasonable amount of hoohah when it was originally proposed but the railway was there first and it was of course extant when the bypass was built. But broken down to its basic elements - possibly apart from the Traffic Moment numbers - it's no different from the K&ESR crossing the A21 (or the A21 crossing the K&ESR) and the Traffic Moment numbers plus any road topographic detail will decide whether or not a crossing is 'safe' and what form it will be required to take. Alas from their viewpoint I would think the average farmer, however bright he or she might be, is hardly qualified or competent to pass an objective technical judgement on the issue.

Perhaps in the Cholsey case the railway being there first was an advantage in terms of the right of way and making the crossing safer. What concerns me from the article above is if 'no2RVR' is a proper organisation then they may present more of a challenge to the railway. I'm sure the relatively light use (compared to a Network Rail level crossing) will have been a factor in the decision to allow construction. I hope that the problems can be resolved and the K&ESR get their link to Robertsbridge. In terms of the current (preservation rather than historic) arrangements what is the difference between the K&ESR and the RVR?

[Oldddudders]

It's the wanting to build a load of houses, which will have far more of an impact than the railway, that just makes it look hypocritical. 

 

Almost certainly, like most farmers in the modern era, they have grubbed out hedges to create bigger and more accessible fields that fit with the modern mega-machinery they buy to obviate employing people. So much for caring about the environment. 

[lmsforever]

The RVR is the company that has been set up to do the extension its a common practise to separate from the main company.,.

[009 micro modeller]

The RVR is the company that has been set up to do the extension its a common practise to separate from the main company.,.

Thanks. This is a website opposing it: http://greatrobertsbridgetrainrobbery.co.uk/ . I find the environmental arguments slightly irrelevant as surely having a mainline connection will offset this by encouraging people who would visit the line anyway to come by public transport instead of driving.

[rue_d_etropal]

I seem to remember the opening of the IOW line was held up by some local property owner(not sure if he was even a proper local) objecting to the preserved railway reopening. Also I think a cyclist group in Cornwall objected to the reopening or keeping open a line there, as they wanted the line as their own cycle route, which might have then resulted in more heavy traffic on the local roads. Some groups only seem to be interested in their own little world and will do anything to stop others stoppping them from doing it.

From the farmer;s point of view, having loads of people go on his land, leaving gates open, removing anything that stops a railway penthusiast getting to a spot they want, just to take a photo, then I can understand. Look at the way some so called railway enthusiasts behave, then I don't think they are showing enthusiasts in the best light.

It is also possible this farmer wanted to set up some other public activty, eg bike racing, 4 wheel drive events, but the council turned him down. Possibly something more trivial which means anything the councl backs, he will object to.

I would have thought that there was a good business opportunity for this farmer, depending on type of farm, but a farmers shop as part of the railway could be good for both the railway and the farmer.

 

Can't find it now, but I seem to remember the KESR used to be referrred to as 'The Farmers Line' .

 

As for the level crossing, even full bariers, and lights will not stop some selfish arrogant drivers. Fitting something in road surfac like those bollards in some town centres, which rise when the barriers come down , then those who try to beat them will find themselves high and dry. I think something similar is used on some railway crossings in Russia.

Edited May 15, 2018 by rue_d_etropal

[Nearholmer]

That is a very professional website.

 

Call me an old old cynic, but I’m beginning to wonder if there is more to the opposition than meets the eye.

 

Might they have something bigger to lose, or gain by opposing the line than the things they cite, or do they truly believe that the return of the railway will lay waste to the entire area, killing-off all the flora and fauna for miles around, just as it has further up the valley? Oh, but it hasn’t done that, has it?

[brianusa]

Two conflicting parties, each with its own agenda!  The rail side obviously would like to extend its tracks while the locals are adamantly against such a proposition and each can't see the others side.  I'm unaware of the legalities of the case but it would seem to be a case of arbitration of some sort is necessary even if to bring common sense into the equation.  As it seems now, the country set is bringing all the usual excuses while the railway maintains the customary branch lines over time fade into the landscape scenario.  The level crossing will take some getting used to however, but its not insurmountable with open minds on both sides.  At the very least it would help with traffic calming!

 

Brian.

[Horsetan]

.... each can't refuses to see the others side.  .....

FTFY.

[jjb1970]

but should you put a price on safety?

All safety has a price and whether we like to admit it or not there is a cost - benefit aspect to safety measures.

[roythebus]

I would suggest those who are really interested refer to the Rother Valley Railway facebook group, the Roberstbridge Junction facebook group, and the Kent & East Sussex group. The Hastings & Bexhill Conservatives group has a lengthy FB thread on this as well with a lot of railway supporters putting their case forward.

 

What the nimbys fail to recognise (or choose to ignore) is that the Rother District council has already given planning permission for the railway providing it gets the TWOA passed. The level crossing has already been subject of surveys by the DfT and others and the results approved with the DfT and the council, as has the design and operation of the crossing.

 

I was at Robertsbridge Junction on Sunday and the work being done there is top quality. the brains behind the project appears to be Mike Hart MBE, the man who gave us the Welsh Highland Railway.

Edited May 15, 2018 by roythebus

[Edwardian]

Thanks. This is a website opposing it: http://greatrobertsbridgetrainrobbery.co.uk/ . I find the environmental arguments slightly irrelevant as surely having a mainline connection will offset this by encouraging people who would visit the line anyway to come by public transport instead of driving.

 

Among the no doubt many genuine cases, environmental arguments are often used by environmental law firms as little more than a scam allowing assorted NIMBYs to take judicial review proceedings of any Council grants of planning consent that they oppose and to do so with minimum risk of costs pursuant to the much-abused Aarhus Convention, which, in "environmental" cases, severely limits the costs that Local Authorities of the planning applications can recover against pressure groups who make endless unmeritorious applications for permission for judicial review and who appeal everything endless. 

 

Like everything else, it's a racket.

[jjb1970]

Green lobby groups and NGOs aren't pressure groups or lobbyists, they're part of "civil society". Which is maybe why they seem to be held to a lower standard of accountability than other groups.

[roythebus]

Toilets at Robertsbridge Junction.

 Our vintage buses at Robertsbridge conveying a party from the Colonel Stevens Society to commemorate his 150th birthday.  I don't know why the pictures have fallen over, turn your computer round!

Edited May 15, 2018 by roythebus

[kevinlms]

I understand from family members older than me that it was ok when it was a broadsheet.

The reason for my question, was that my father used to buy it. He was certainly no right winger.

But I can't ask him his thoughts on the current version, compared to the 1960s.

[kevinlms]

That is a very professional website.

 

Call me an old old cynic, but I’m beginning to wonder if there is more to the opposition than meets the eye.

 

Might they have something bigger to lose, or gain by opposing the line than the things they cite, or do they truly believe that the return of the railway will lay waste to the entire area, killing-off all the flora and fauna for miles around, just as it has further up the valley? Oh, but it hasn’t done that, has it?

Perhaps, its simply a case of one of the objectors, is very good at creating a website?

[kevinlms]

     If I'm thinking correctly, they're known as 'sleeping policemen' and can be programmed to come up whenever the crossing is closing; arguably more effective to have one blocking each lane as well as the gates than just gates alone. More expensive, of course, but should you put a price on safety?

A railway crossing and any method of preventing vehicles actually crossing it, is a legal piece of infrastructure and has certain rules that MUST be obeyed, not selectively choosing to ignore it.

[kevinlms]

IMG_1757.JPG Toilets at Robertsbridge Junction.

IMG_1756.JPG  Our vintage buses at Robertsbridge conveying a party from the Colonel Stevens Society to commemorate his 150th birthday.  I don't know why the pictures have fallen over, turn your computer round!

Tell me you don't use the subjects of the first photo, as a toilet?

[PatB]

 Maybe I'm the only one who knows people who inhabit the right-on-o-sphere who have deeply unpleasant views about certain groups of people. And if poor judgement at times is a crime then we're all criminals. Which I suppose is a long winded way of saying people need to think about a lot more than just one news paper or one world view when considering hate and xenophobia. I've seen stuff printed in all of the news papers which is pretty shameful.

 

On the subject of the railway extension, I hope it goes ahead and don't support NIMBY-ism but neither can I truly condemn the people either.

 

No, it's not just you. Whilst I regard myself as broadly sympathetic to many of the aims of much of the Right-Onosphere, I find many of its individual members and their views and attitudes at least as unappealing or cringingly embarrassing as those of their apparent polar opposites. 

[Boris]

I'm not really surprised at the shite quality of journalism around preserved railways in these two papers.  It was the coverage in both those publications of the NYMR War Weekend that was a large contributing factor to the Moors getting rid of the Germans at Levisham.

[rodent279]

I'm not really surprised at the shite quality of journalism around preserved railways in these two papers. It was the coverage in both those publications of the NYMR War Weekend that was a large contributing factor to the Moors getting rid of the Germans at Levisham.

Going OT a bit, but I'm rather uncomfortable with the whole war weekend thing anyway. I tend to avoid them like the plague. It seems to me to be wallowing in a rather dark period of history, milking it. Let's not forget it was a nasty time for a lot of people both sides of the channel, many died or returned physically or mentally scarred, and I suspect most people were just glad to see the back of those times. Maybe this is for another thread though...