Hornby dublo

[Golden Fleece 30]

Ahh,so you have discovered the subtleties of Wrenn chassis.There are 2 versions,neither of which fit a dublo city body.There is the chassis which you have which won`t fit a dublo body owing to the screw fixing hole in the wrong place & another which has a plastic plate ( difficult to get hold of today) which screws to the rear of the chassis & fits into a slot in the rear of the body floor but again the screw fixing hole is in the wrong place for some Wrenn bodies,i had to make a threaded bush to epoxy to the body 20161106_091342.jpg & then you have the Dublo body & chassis that will only fit each other.

 

 

Wrenn chassis with plastic plate attached to the cab end.

 

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

 

Fun isn`t it,LOL.

 

Ray.

This is all because from day one Wrenn modified a chassis block to fit both the City and A4. They never ever used the the Dublo A4 body or chassis which is why the Wrenn A4 body will not fit a Dublo chassis either. Instead of a plate with a stud riveted by the buffers on the A4 they cast a block inside with a tapped hole. This meant a slot at the front for a screw. They took away the pony truck tender coupling loop and used a bar similar to the City because they always used Tri-ang (Hornby) tenders, the Dublo tin version tender was never produced. The loco chassis was designed from the City one shortened for the A4 hence the plastic lug at the back. The Dublo A4 chassis had protrusions for the valve gear assembly to be pinned to which would interfere with the one piece City valve gear so plastic spacers were designed to replace the cast Dublo ones when the chassis was A4 based.

 

On a similar note Wrenn never used the 0-6-2 chassis from Dublo but instead modified the R1 to take a pony truck, not Dublo's version but their own, and a plate to extend to the rear of the bunker. The bunker rear was slotted to take the plate in the same way the R1 body to chassis was fixed. This meant that Wrenn and Dublo 0-6-2's are not interchangeable either.

 

Garry

Edited September 15, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[Golden Fleece 30]

For quite a while Wrenn used the Dublo Castle and 8F/City tender bases which had the holes for plunger pick-ups still in even after modifying the base's to take their own pin point wheel assemblies but eventually these holes were filled in and just a small cast circular disc marked the spot. This made it harder to fit plungers especially as the metal was a lot thinner now.

 

Wrenn also modified the Bo-Bo chassis redesigning the motor block which was used unpowered as the trailing bogie saving two different ones needed. They also removed the plunger facility making this a harder loco to 3-rail than any other. This chassis was then used in the Brighton Belle units.

 

As far as I know the 08 and other Ringfield locos were not modified to prevent any interchangeability with Dublo counteparts.

 

Wrenns Scot and Spamcan had new chassis's designed around the Dublo vertical motor version but were not part of the old Dublo stable.

 

I don't know what happened to most of the moulds, Dapol fire or otherwise, but do know the R1 was with Wrenn for their use and was sent away to be repaired as it was well worn. While away the repairers lost it never to be seen again so production of the R1 ceased from then on.

 

Wrenn did have plans to introduce the Mk1 and stove 6 wheeler coaches, the Mk1's in blood and custard livery along with the green SR EMU. These were advertised in a catalogue but never materialised.

 

They also advertised the Royal Scot, Spamcan, WR 45xx 2-6-2 and an SR 4-4-2 radial tank. Only the Scot and Spamcan made it into production. It was rumoured that the latter 2 were going to be K's whitemetal bodies as the Streamlined Coronation was. That loco itself was not successful as the castings were so poor more than half were returned to K's. The tenders for the Coronations that did make it to the shelves were the Tri-ang (Hornby) ones that used the Dublo City bases.

 

Garry

Edited September 15, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[Il Grifone]

Thank you for posting the photos. While the Atholl is a little darker - and perhaps more purple - it seems to my eye that it's the presence of lining on the City that makes a significant difference to the overall effect of the base colour. Which confirms a lot of the comments in this thread about colour perception generally, and crimson lake in particular.

 

Mike

 

That's What I thought too, but at the moment they are sitting side by side on the floor waiting to back in their boxes (well on top of the boxes). My eyesight isn't what it was and the City lining disappears. The Atholl is just a bit darker.

 

I though I'd investigate the possibily of correcting the wheel/ body misalignment*. I did a Montrose years ago. Basically it needs about 2mm off the chassis block at th front. Close inspection shows that the frames are actually shaped to fit agaist the curvature of the running plate, so removal of the matal above will allow the frames to move forward and actually butt against the back of the buffer beam as they should. The slot for the fixing screw will need deepening too.

 

The City's chimney needs drilling out as well.

 

* Purists read no further   Both models are not original. so a little 'correction' would not be a problem. The Atholl is to become City of Nottingham with a ex-streamlined tender from a City. It's still not really correct, as it should have a ladder at the back, not steps on the frames. (Coronations are complicated beasts...).

 

I've noticed that the Wrenn block has caused the same misalignment problem with the the City. I'll have to bodge devise a solution.

[Wolseley]

Ahh,so you have discovered the subtleties of Wrenn chassis.There are 2 versions,neither of which fit a dublo city body.There is the chassis which you have which won`t fit a  dublo body owing to the screw fixing hole in the wrong place & another which has a plastic plate ( difficult to get hold of today) which screws to the rear of the chassis & fits into a slot in the rear of the body floor but again the screw fixing hole is in the wrong place for some Wrenn bodies,i had to make a threaded bush to epoxy to the body 20161106_091342.jpg & then you have the Dublo body & chassis that will only fit each other.

 

 

I discovered this when I bought a Wrenn City of Glasgow body and a Dublo City chassis to fit it.  I ended up with two Cities instead of one (I now have three Cities, although that's irrelevant here) as I then bought a Wrenn chassis to go with the Wrenn body and a Dublo body to go with the Dublo chassis.  Both locomotives have Montrose tenders.

[MikeCW]

Ahh,so you have discovered the subtleties of Wrenn chassis.There are 2 versions,neither of which fit a dublo city body.There is the chassis which you have which won`t fit a  dublo body owing to the screw fixing hole in the wrong place & another which has a plastic plate ( difficult to get hold of today) which screws to the rear of the chassis & fits into a slot in the rear of the body floor but again the screw fixing hole is in the wrong place for some Wrenn bodies,i had to make a threaded bush to epoxy to the body & then you have the Dublo body & chassis that will only fit each other.

 

 Fun isn`t it,LOL.

 

                  Ray.

Thank you for the information Ray, and to Garry also for his full history of the "Wrenn Chassis Story" in subsequent posts.

 

To this complex story can be added the random modifications/bodges performed by successive owners for reasons which can only be guessed at. Herewith are three more photos of the subject of my previous post (248). To recap, I bought what was described as a Hornby Dublo Montrose body mounted on a Wrenn chassis.  In the first two photos, this chassis is in the centre.  At the top is the Montrose body it came with.  At the bottom is the Dublo City body which I will eventually fit to the chassis.

 

A shown in Post 248, the chassis rear has been shortened and slotted to fit the Montrose cab floor.

 

You will note in the photos below that there are two bolt holes in the chassis front  - the "U" shaped one at the very front which was where the Montrose body was attached via the traditional square headed bolt through the valve chest.  The second hole, normally hidden by the bogie, aligns perfectly with the rivetted plate on the City body.  The third photo shows the shape of the chassis front, quite different from either chassis shown in Ray's post. So, either I don't have a Wrenn chassis but a Hornby Dublo 2-rail one: or I have a Wrenn chassis modified over time to fit both City or Montrose Dublo bodies.  The "step" in the front of the frame looks roughly sawn and hogged out, (home handyman?), but the bolt hole which aligns with the City body fixing is neatly finished and countersunk.  Comments welcome. (This is really just a matter of continuing education as I'm happy with the chassis as a donor to a planned project.)

 

 

This thread stirred some connections in my memory banks and sent me to a long untouched box of my "other" model railway items.  Is this the ultimate Dublo Pacific?  It's a City of London, rewheeled, modified and detailed to represent one of the last two Ivatt Coronations running in 1948.  With those large Romford drivers it runs as if it's making up time coming down Shap.  It doesn't really fit my current "finescale" layout, where 4-6-0s are the largest engines required.  But I've kept her for nostalgic reasons. She (I suppose it should be he as it's named after Sir William) was modified and painted, (my first crack at bow-pen lining)  in the mid-1980s, so s/he has been in service with me longer than the original was with the LMS and BR. I must go back and scratch around in the box to see if I can find that missing front footstep!  Mike

Edited September 16, 2018 by MikeCW

[MikeCW]

 

 

I though I'd investigate the possibily of correcting the wheel/ body misalignment*. I did a Montrose years ago. Basically it needs about 2mm off the chassis block at th front. Close inspection shows that the frames are actually shaped to fit agaist the curvature of the running plate, so removal of the matal above will allow the frames to move forward and actually butt against the back of the buffer beam as they should. The slot for the fixing screw will need deepening too.

 

David, I recall that some early attempts of mine to modify Dublo Pacifics (see my previous Post), were constrained by the close fit of the curved magnet pole pieces within the locomotive body.  It might be possible to gain a millimetre of forward movement of the chassis block, but I wouldn't have thought much more than that.  I might be wrong but I'd be interested to know how you get on if you get round to trying it.

 

Regards

 

Mike

[sagaguy]

Ah,now the Ivatt Coronation is one of those models that`s in the pipeline.I have a spare City loco earmarked for this conversion.I have a Triang Brittannia rear bogie for the delta version but a bit stymied for the Davis & Metcalf injector under the cab this being a feature of the prototype.

 

                                  Ray.

[MikeCW]

Ah,now the Ivatt Coronation is one of those models that`s in the pipeline.I have a spare City loco earmarked for this conversion.I have a Triang Brittannia rear bogie for the delta version but a bit stymied for the Davis & Metcalf injector under the cab this being a feature of the prototype.

 

                                  Ray.

Ray, it's so long ago now that I can't recall where I sourced the add-on details.  In the 80s there were, as you will recall, plenty of small suppliers providing whitemetal detailing parts (of very variable quality). I used to order a lot of bits and pieces from Dave Cleal of Mainly Trains in Watchet in Somerset, and suspect that was the source of most of them, including the etched smoke deflectors.

 

One of the major mods to the body was to cut away and reinstate a more prototypical shape to the front of the firebox cladding where it meets the footplate.  This also meant extending the rear splasher profile which is otherwise "buried" in the Dublo body moulding.  I think that this then required bevelling off the bottom front edges of the magnet pole pieces to ensure the chassis fitted back into the body.

 

I also reduced very slightly the front shoulder of the Belpaire firebox which, to my eyes and compared with photos, looked a wee bit angular.   Not visible in the photo is the steam powered coal pusher.  I haven't looked at a plastic City tender for a long time and, assuming that coal was part of the moulding, I must have cut it away, built up the tender interior and fitted the coal pusher on the sloping floor, and the steam pipes and valves on the rear bulkhead. I must have had a lot of patience 35 years ago.

 

Were I doing another one "in the spirit" of Dublo, I wouldn't go nearly that far of course - cab side sheets, trailing truck, reversing rod and maybe a few other mods; but no more than that. The object would be to produce the Ivatt Duchess that Hornby Dublo might have produced, not a scale model.

 

Any opinion on my supposed Wrenn chassis?

 

Mike

Edited September 16, 2018 by MikeCW

[Golden Fleece 30]

Ray, it's so long ago now that I can't recall where I sourced the add-on details. In the 80s there were, as you will recall, plenty of small suppliers providing whitemetal detailing parts (of very variable quality). I used to order a lot of bits and pieces from Dave Cleal of Mainly Trains in Watchet in Somerset, and suspect that was the source of most of them, including the etched smoke deflectors.

 

One of the major mods to the body was to cut away and reinstate a more prototypical shape to the front of the firebox cladding where it meets the footplate. This also meant extending the rear splasher profile which is otherwise "buried" in the Dublo body moulding. I think that this then required bevelling off the bottom front edges of the magnet pole pieces to ensure the chassis fitted back into the body.

 

I also reduced very slightly the front shoulder of the Belpaire firebox which, to my eyes and compared with photos, looked a wee bit angular. Not visible in the photo is the steam powered coal pusher. I haven't looked at a plastic City tender for a long time and, assuming that coal was part of the moulding, I must have cut it away, built up the tender interior and fitted the coal pusher on the sloping floor, and the steam pipes and valves on the rear bulkhead. I must have had a lot of patience 35 years ago.

 

Were I doing another one "in the spirit" of Dublo, I wouldn't go nearly that far of course - cab side sheets, trailing truck, reversing rod and maybe a few other mods; but no more than that. The object would be to produce the Ivatt Duchess that Hornby Dublo might have produced, not a scale model.

 

Any opinion on my supposed Wrenn chassis?

 

Mike

Going back all those years ago there was a company called Crownline who made a lot of "kits" that either extra detailed a ready to run loco or did modifications sets like converting the City to the Stanier or Salford versions although I guess they were mainly for the Hornby plastic models. As you say though Mike there were hundreds of shops in tbose days where spares or detailing parts could be obtained.

 

The chassis you talk about looks to be an early Wrenn one as the casting behind the armature is bevelled at the top but I think the Dublo ones were flat like the front section.

 

Regarding your comment to David about moving a chassis forward, the pole pieces can be filed quite a bit to allow it to fit into tighter spaces. I have removed quite a bit to get a Dublo chassis into a Trix A3 and Bachmann V2 bodies. I have also thinned down some TT ones with no detrimental effects.

 

Garry

Edited September 16, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[Il Grifone]

Thank you for the information Ray, and to Garry also for his full history of the "Wrenn Chassis Story" in subsequent posts.

 

To this complex story can be added the random modifications/bodges performed by successive owners for reasons which can only be guessed at. Herewith are three more photos of the subject of my previous post (248). To recap, I bought what was described as a Hornby Dublo Montrose body mounted on a Wrenn chassis.  In the first two photos, this chassis is in the centre.  At the top is the Montrose body it came with.  At the bottom is the Dublo City body which I will eventually fit to the chassis.

 

A shown in Post 248, the chassis rear has been shortened and slotted to fit the Montrose cab floor.

 

You will note in the photos below that there are two bolt holes in the chassis front  - the "U" shaped one at the very front which was where the Montrose body was attached via the traditional square headed bolt through the valve chest.  The second hole, normally hidden by the bogie, aligns perfectly with the rivetted plate on the City body.  The third photo shows the shape of the chassis front, quite different from either chassis shown in Ray's post. So, either I don't have a Wrenn chassis but a Hornby Dublo 2-rail one: or I have a Wrenn chassis modified over time to fit both City or Montrose Dublo bodies.  The "step" in the front of the frame looks roughly sawn and hogged out, (home handyman?), but the bolt hole which aligns with the City body fixing is neatly finished and countersunk.  Comments welcome. (This is really just a matter of continuing education as I'm happy with the chassis as a donor to a planned project.)

 

P1020009 Dublo (2).jpgP1020012 Dublo.jpgP1020017 Dublo.jpg

 

This thread stirred some connections in my memory banks and sent me to a long untouched box of my "other" model railway items.  Is this the ultimate Dublo Pacific?  It's a City of London, rewheeled, modified and detailed to represent one of the last two Ivatt Coronations running in 1948.  With those large Romford drivers it runs as if it's making up time coming down Shap.  It doesn't really fit my current "finescale" layout, where 4-6-0s are the largest engines required.  But I've kept her for nostalgic reasons. She (I suppose it should be he as it's named after Sir William) was modified and painted, (my first crack at bow-pen lining)  in the mid-1980s, so s/he has been in service with me longer than the original was with the LMS and BR. I must go back and scratch around in the box to see if I can find that missing front footstep!  Mike

P1020015 Dublo.jpg

 

Hi Mike,

 

That is really inspiring and shows how good the basic Dublo model is. It is certainly better than the alleged 'scale' Rowell one.

 

David, I recall that some early attempts of mine to modify Dublo Pacifics (see my previous Post), were constrained by the close fit of the curved magnet pole pieces within the locomotive body.  It might be possible to gain a millimetre of forward movement of the chassis block, but I wouldn't have thought much more than that.  I might be wrong but I'd be interested to know how you get on if you get round to trying it.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

I don't seem to recall any problem with the Montrose I did years ago (She had suffered damage to the front of the Frames. My fault - I've had her from new at Christmas 1953).

She is in a box somewhere. Her original gloss finish has been replaced by a complete repaint (sometime in the 80s), but, unlike the other gloss finish one I have, is in need of a refresh. I might not have been able to completely correct the fault but even partway is an improvement. The Atholl is blocked by needing more metal removed, but I'm off to Italy for a couple of weeks so she'll have to wait.

 

I've been told by the powers that be that all the trains have to disappear from the lounge!     

 

Regards,

 

David

[sagaguy]

Dave Cleal of Mainly Trains stopped trading a while ago but i think most of the bits & pieces moved to Wizard models,

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/lms-ivatt-pacific-trailing-truck-ls65/

 

I`ll order one of these trailing truck kits & also an injector casting.It`s now on the to do list,i have the F.J.Roche drawing to work with & there is an excellent drawing on the web if i can find it again.

 

                          Ray.

Edited September 16, 2018 by sagaguy

[Golden Fleece 30]

Dave Cleal of Mainly Trains stopped trading a while ago but i think most of the bits & pieces moved to Wizard models,

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/lms-ivatt-pacific-trailing-truck-ls65/

 

I`ll order one of these trailing truck kits & also an injector casting.

 

Ray.

Wizard also took over the Comet range of coaches etc.

 

Garry

[MikeCW]

I was in two minds whether to post the following here, or on the "Playing With Hornby Dublo Again" topic, where the "action" seems to have moved. But as I mentioned above that I was going to have a crack at a BR green 2-6-4T, I decided I would finish the story on the thread where it started.  Herewith my version of 80315.

This was something of a struggle, due mainly to my inability to get on with the transfers. Though "methfix" is my preferred transfer type, my experience to date has been with the HMRS/PC variety  So, armed with this experience, Garry's helpful Youtube series on painting a Dublo A4, and Dennis Williams' own instructions, I set about the previously painted model (Humbrol discontinued BR Green and Coal Black, and semi-gloss varnish).The bunker and tank lining were attempted first.  I struggled to get the lining to stick.  After brushing on the meths/water mix, and pressing down with the fingers, the lining would shift at the slightest nudge.  So I followed the instructions (!)  and left it alone for the evening and washed off the paper carrier next morning.  Most of it had stuck , but some was still detached.  Applications of Microsol decal softener finally got it to stay fast.

 

However, I then struck another problem.  The tank lining has a carrier film, which I usually associate with waterslide transfers and which I wasn't expecting on methfix ones.  This lifted at the edge in places, and is visible in some lights under the finishing coats of protective varnish. But overall it worked eventually, though the black line in the orange/black/orange is so thin, compared with the orange lining, that the lining is very bright, almost too bright.  (Compare it with the original lining on your Bristol Castle.)

 

Then the boiler band lining.  I couldn't get this to stick at all.  The boiler bands on the 2-6-4T are prominent and "half round" in shape, and the lining transfers simply wouldn't snuggle down around them, no matter what I did. So I decided that I would paint the boiler bands black, and make my own orange stripes to lay either side by painting a blank waterslide decal sheet orange, slice off thin strips, and lay them each side of the boiler bands.  No luck.  They were either too thick or, when cut sufficiently thin, just disintegrated.  So I resorted to a "000" brush, and hand-painted the lining on the boiler bands - with shaky hands and failing eyesight.  I'm afraid it shows but is the best I could do.

 

Then the BR totem. I didn't want to go through this drama again, so dug out two "pressfix" totems and stuck them on, and made a real pig's ear of them. I must have been getting tired as they were not properly centred on the tank sides. Removing them ripped off the paint.  I then had to sand the tank side smooth without wrecking the lining, and then respray the tank sides through a "letterbox" mask cobbled up out of a bit of card.  Seeing on a photo that the prototype on the NYMR had the small totems I used these.

 

I thought that some of the problems may have been because the locomotive body wasn't glossy enough to hold the decals, I gloss varnished the cylinders before applying the lining.  No discernible improvement so I varnish-fixed the lining.

 

So there she is.  Not quite as good as I might have wished, and not always fun to do, but it'll pass for the time being.  I may drop it in the paint stripper and try again, but that's for another day!

 

And I'd like to note that nothing in this saga is a criticism of Dennis W's transfers - as opposed to my use of them!.  We are very lucky that people like Dennis do the hard work to keep us involved in Dublo restoration and conversion - and probably for little financial reward.

 

I've just noticed that I need to scrape the paint off the brass safety valves.

 

Mike 

Edited September 30, 2018 by MikeCW

[Golden Fleece 30]

I was in two minds whether to post the following here, or on the "Playing With Hornby Dublo Again" topic, where the "action" seems to have moved. But as I mentioned above that I was going to have a crack at a BR green 2-6-4T, I decided I would finish the story on the thread where it started. Herewith my version of 80315.

P1020051 Dublo.jpg

This was something of a struggle, due mainly to my inability to get on with the transfers. Though "methfix" is my preferred transfer type, my experience to date has been with the HMRS/PC variety So, armed with this experience, Garry's helpful Youtube series on painting a Dublo A4, and Dennis Williams' own instructions, I set about the previously painted model (Humbrol discontinued BR Green and Coal Black, and semi-gloss varnish).The bunker and tank lining were attempted first. I struggled to get the lining to stick. After brushing on the meths/water mix, and pressing down with the fingers, the lining would shift at the slightest nudge. So I followed the instructions (!) and left it alone for the evening and washed off the paper carrier next morning. Most of it had stuck , but some was still detached. Applications of Microsol decal softener finally got it to stay fast.

 

However, I then struck another problem. The tank lining has a carrier film, which I usually associate with waterslide transfers and which I wasn't expecting on methfix ones. This lifted at the edge in places, and is visible in some lights under the finishing coats of protective varnish. But overall it worked eventually, though the black line in the orange/black/orange is so thin, compared with the orange lining, that the lining is very bright, almost too bright. (Compare it with the original lining on your Bristol Castle.)

 

Then the boiler band lining. I couldn't get this to stick at all. The boiler bands on the 2-6-4T are prominent and "half round" in shape, and the lining transfers simply wouldn't snuggle down around them, no matter what I did. So I decided that I would paint the boiler bands black, and make my own orange stripes to lay either side by painting a blank waterslide decal sheet orange, slice off thin strips, and lay them each side of the boiler bands. No luck. They were either too thick or, when cut sufficiently thin, just disintegrated. So I resorted to a "000" brush, and hand-painted the lining on the boiler bands - with shaky hands and failing eyesight. I'm afraid it shows but is the best I could do.

 

Then the BR totem. I didn't want to go through this drama again, so dug out two "pressfix" totems and stuck them on, and made a real pig's ear of them. I must have been getting tired as they were not properly centred on the tank sides. Removing them ripped off the paint. I then had to sand the tank side smooth without wrecking the lining, and then respray the tank sides through a "letterbox" mask cobbled up out of a bit of card. Seeing on a photo that the prototype had the small totems I used these.

 

I thought that some of the problems may have been because the locomotive body wasn't glossy enough to hold the decals, I gloss varnished the cylinders before applying the lining. No discernible improvement so I varnish-fixed the lining.

 

So there she is. Not quite as good as I might have wished, and not always fun to do, but it'll pass for the time being. I may drop it in the paint stripper and try again, but that's for another day!

 

And I'd like to note that nothing in this saga is a criticism of Dennis W's transfers - as opposed to my use of them!. We are very lucky that people like Dennis do the hard work to keep us involved in Dublo restoration and conversion - and probably for little financial reward.

 

I've just noticed that I need to scrape the paint off the brass safety valves.

 

Mike

From the photograph that looks very nice and on close inspection I am very impressed with the boiler lining done with a brush. I wish I could do it that nicely and if so I would prefer to do them by hand.

 

Regarding putting the transfers on I have not had any trouble with the ones from Dennis apart from the A4 narrower Wrenn style ones. What mix of water to Meths did you use Mike? The ratio I stated on YouTube is different to a lot of others but what works for me. I am surprised of it lifting on the flat areas, I have never experienced that but at odd times on the boiler bands yes which is due to the nature of the transfer having to shape in two directions at once but it has not been much of a problem.

 

There should only be two parts of paper on the transfer, a thicker backing over the transfer which is removed to leave the transfer showing on top of the thinner carrier. Both transfer and carrier are applied and the carrier washed of with plain water, 15 minutes or less if Meths used or overnight with varnish. Once removed I have never experienced any other residue left. On the A4 cab lining/numbers one of them is real time between Meths application and water to remove so not on long.

 

Again though Mike a lovely model, well done.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

Mike, regarding the carrier, did you try cutting it close to the inside and outside of the transfer? If so that is probably why it tried to move as the carrier as is holds the whole transfer in in a straight line which cannot move. I only cut to a mm or two of the outside which keeps the lining in the shape it should be.

 

Regarding the Dublo original factory ones I think their boilers were two individual red lines spaced to fit outside the cast band which is why theirs looks flatter, that is only my opinion though. Don't forget the green 80135 never actually existed until around 10 years or so of Dublo's demise. If you look at some of their A4 and Duchess's their lining did not always get fastened onto a cast band, A4's especially on the front one.

 

Garry

Edited September 29, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[MikeCW]

Thank you for the supportive comments Garry.

 

In response to some of your questions and suggestions -  I used the 3:1/meths:water mix recommended by Dennis, though I admit it was a pretty rough estimate of the quantities.  I'll be much more precise next time. I can't recall the proportions you gave on your video but if you have a recommendation on a different meths:water proportion I'd be keen to give it a go - all my responsibility of course!

 

I cut the bunker and tank transfers to about a millimetre from the lining on the outside before peeling them off the heavy backing paper but, like you, left the internal  carrier paper in place so that the transfers retained their shape.  After they were in place on the locomotive, and the thin carrier paper washed away, there was a definite transparent "film" showing for about a millimetre or less along some of the edges of the orange lines on these transfers, very similar to the carrier film of waterslide transfers. It even appeared to have lifted in a couple of places.  As there isn't (or shouldn't be in my experience) any such carrier film on methfix transfers, I now wonder, after relaxing with a glass of Australian red, if it was adhesive which hadn't been fully activated by my water/meths mix?  I didn't want to wash it too vigorously after the backing paper was floated off with water as I wasn't confident about how well the lining had adhered.  In fact the more I think about it, the overall  problem seemed to be insufficient activation of the glue by my water:meths mix.

 

My experience with PC methfix transfers has been that 10-15 minutes is adequate for adhesion, but in fairness Dennis recommends a longer time for his transfers - perhaps to give a margin of safety.

 

The Dublo red lines on black engines certainly look like separate lines each side of the cast "boiler band".  But the ones on the Bristol Castle which I refurbished recently looked like very fine orange/black/orange transfers on the boiler band - but who knows after all this time. It's notable how such knowledge can disappear as soon as a generation passes.. It was repairs to the paintwork of the Castle, including restoring chipped boiler lining by painting, which gave me the confidence to have a go at hand-painting the boiler lining on 80135. 

 

My hand-painting was done with a quality 000 sable brush under a bench-top magnifier with built-in led lighting - a piece of kit which is increasingly used as the eyesight gets older.  Three colours were on hand: black, orange and locomotive green (all Humbrol enamels).  The black boiler bands were painted first; then the orange lines each side using the cast boiler band as a guide.  The orange edges were straightened and adjusted by touching in with locomotive green on the body side, and with black on the boiler band side. Then, where I had splodged green or black on the orange lines, more orange paint was applied. This process was repeated until it looked presentable, or until I had lost the will to live.  After the paint had dried I airbrushed the whole body with satin varnish which pulled it all together very well.  I suppose I can spend the time on it as I have only a few Dublo projects on the go (though growing).  I wouldn't like to have done it on your 30 plus A4s!

 

As always, thanks for the help and encouragement.

 

Mike     

[Golden Fleece 30]

Thank you for the supportive comments Garry.

 

In response to some of your questions and suggestions -  I used the 3:1/meths:water mix recommended by Dennis, though I admit it was a pretty rough estimate of the quantities.  I'll be much more precise next time. I can't recall the proportions you gave on your video but if you have a recommendation on a different meths:water proportion I'd be keen to give it a go - all my responsibility of course!

 

I cut the bunker and tank transfers to about a millimetre from the lining on the outside before peeling them off the heavy backing paper but, like you, left the internal  carrier paper in place so that the transfers retained their shape.  After they were in place on the locomotive, and the thin carrier paper washed away, there was a definite transparent "film" showing for about a millimetre or less along some of the edges of the orange lines on these transfers, very similar to the carrier film of waterslide transfers. It even appeared to have lifted in a couple of places.  As there isn't (or shouldn't be in my experience) any such carrier film on methfix transfers, I now wonder, after relaxing with a glass of Australian red, if it was adhesive which hadn't been fully activated by my water/meths mix?  I didn't want to wash it too vigorously after the backing paper was floated off with water as I wasn't confident about how well the lining had adhered.  In fact the more I think about it, the overall  problem seemed to be insufficient activation of the glue by my water:meths mix.

 

My experience with PC methfix transfers has been that 10-15 minutes is adequate for adhesion, but in fairness Dennis recommends a longer time for his transfers - perhaps to give a margin of safety.

 

The Dublo red lines on black engines certainly look like separate lines each side of the cast "boiler band".  But the ones on the Bristol Castle which I refurbished recently looked like very fine orange/black/orange transfers on the boiler band - but who knows after all this time. It's notable how such knowledge can disappear as soon as a generation passes.. It was repairs to the paintwork of the Castle, including restoring chipped boiler lining by painting, which gave me the confidence to have a go at hand-painting the boiler lining on 80135. 

 

My hand-painting was done with a quality 000 sable brush under a bench-top magnifier with built-in led lighting - a piece of kit which is increasingly used as the eyesight gets older.  Three colours were on hand: black, orange and locomotive green (all Humbrol enamels).  The black boiler bands were painted first; then the orange lines each side using the cast boiler band as a guide.  The orange edges were straightened and adjusted by touching in with locomotive green on the body side, and with black on the boiler band side. Then, where I had splodged green or black on the orange lines, more orange paint was applied. This process was repeated until it looked presentable, or until I had lost the will to live.  After the paint had dried I airbrushed the whole body with satin varnish which pulled it all together very well.  I suppose I can spend the time on it as I have only a few Dublo projects on the go (though growing).  I wouldn't like to have done it on your 30 plus A4s!

 

As always, thanks for the help and encouragement.

 

Mike     

Hi Mike,

 

My ratio is 2 parts meths to one of water, I used a tea spoon for the quantities.

 

The residue is possibly as you say the gum left over, I would have that but with washing with a brush soaked in water then a wet paper towel (gently) and a dry paper towel (patted and smoothed gently) it was never seen to my eyes.  Like you I use a magnifier although I think mine is a bulb as opposed to LEDS but my wife bought it a long time ago one Xmas.

 

Garry

[NCB]

Mike, Methfix transfers are supposed to be applied to a matt body, the opposite of waterslide which are supposed to be applied to a gloss body. Could that be the reason why they didn't stick?

 

I've used Methfix a lot, mainly because until fairly recently most of the "company" transfers offered by the 3mm Society were Methfix (from PC Models). Generally I find they work OK; with very fine ones it's easy to lose a bit of the transfer though.

 

Nigel

[Golden Fleece 30]

Mike, Methfix transfers are supposed to be applied to a matt body, the opposite of waterslide which are supposed to be applied to a gloss body. Could that be the reason why they didn't stick?

 

Nigel

I never knew that but all the green and blue locos I have done have all been on gloss without a problem. All the black locos were satin.

 

There was one loco I did, no idea which scale, where numbers which were a full set on one transfer (admittedly waterslide) were put on a matt surface and when I came to varnish the loco the matt surface under the transfer stayed matt. I think Ray had this issue once too.

 

Garry

Edited September 29, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[MikeCW]

Mike, Methfix transfers are supposed to be applied to a matt body, the opposite of waterslide which are supposed to be applied to a gloss body. Could that be the reason why they didn't stick?

 

I've used Methfix a lot, mainly because until fairly recently most of the "company" transfers offered by the 3mm Society were Methfix (from PC Models). Generally I find they work OK; with very fine ones it's easy to lose a bit of the transfer though.

 

Nigel

Thanks for the advice Nigel.  Like Garry I've used Methfix transfers (PC/HMRS) for years with no problems, and they are my preference over waterslide and Pressfix  (Though when the Pressfix ones get old and lose their tackiness they can be applied as if they were Methfix - best of both worlds?).  I've used them (Methfix) successfully on both gloss and matt surfaces, and didn't know that they were intended to work on matt paint rather than gloss..  I've included the PC/HMRS instructions below, which can be interpreted in two ways: (1) the instructions assume that the transfers will be applied only to matt surfaces, and include a warning about some matt paints and advice about how to mix one's own;  or, (2) the instructions assume that the transfers will be applied to any paint surface  but warn about some matt finishes, and give advice about how to mix "Methfix friendly" matt finishes if that is the user's preference. "You pays your money ............."

 

I might add that the varnish on the 2-6-4T was satin but, because I inadvertently sprayed it on a bit "dry", the finish was nearer matt than the satin intended.  So, on balance, I don't think the paint finish was the main source of my problems.

 

In my research (aka cruising the net for 10 minutes) I looked at the FAQs on the transfers section of the HMRS website, but there was nothing definitive there.  Elsewhere there were a few comments that Methfix transfers can go "off" after a number of years and may need heavier applications of meths/water, and longer drying times, to get them to stick satisfactorily. Perhaps implied in the fifth sentence in the instructions?

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by MikeCW

[45568]

This may be of interest???

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hornby-Dublo-OO-SPARE-PARTS-huge-4kg-collection-bogies-ponies-wheels-more/273488243081?hash=item3fad2b6989:g:K68AAOSwFxJbsZ7p

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[cypherman]

Hi Mike,

That's a great job on the 2-6-4. It is my favourite HD model. I currently have 6 of them but mine are all in early and late BR black livery. I might consider doing another one in green. But I think I would like to paint one in the CR colours as done by Wrenn. Like this one. I know they were never painted like this but It looks just so nice.

 

[Wolseley]

I think I would like to paint one in the CR colours as done by Wrenn. Like this one. I know they were never painted like this but It looks just so nice.

 

 

I rather liked it too.  Wasn't a preserved loco finished like this for a brief period in the 1970s?  It's wrong on so many counts, but it looks good.  Vaguely reminiscent of a Wemyss Bay Tank.  Mind you, if it were real Caley livery, the lining would go around the cab windows and not duck below them, BR style.

 

I have been thinking about doing this to an 0-6-2T if I ever get my hands on another one.....

[Golden Fleece 30]

I rather liked it too.  Wasn't a preserved loco finished like this for a brief period in the 1970s?  It's wrong on so many counts, but it looks good.  Vaguely reminiscent of a Wemyss Bay Tank.  Mind you, if it were real Caley livery, the lining would go around the cab windows and not duck below them, BR style.

 

I have been thinking about doing this to an 0-6-2T if I ever get my hands on another one.....

It was a Fairburn 2-6-4  tank on the Lakeside railway in South Cumbria that was in this livery.  A lot of complaints were made but the owner replied, correctly, "It is my loco and I can paint it what colour I like".  It did get re-done in the LNWR style later similar to BR lined black.

 

Garry

[kevinlms]

Hi Mike,

That's a great job on the 2-6-4. It is my favourite HD model. I currently have 6 of them but mine are all in early and late BR black livery. I might consider doing another one in green. But I think I would like to paint one in the CR colours as done by Wrenn. Like this one. I know they were never painted like this but It looks just so nice.

As others have said, one was painted like this, so to say they were never painted like this is wrong.