Railroad - Diamonds and Dogs

[Lacathedrale]

Hi all,

 

If I'm not mistaken the Hornby Railroad range consists of models of fairly old lineage that are reissued as an affordable option by Hornby. This seems to me like a great opportunity to mess around with detailing/etc. as I have done with my old Lima bits - but potentially with a better set of bones than the pancake-motored italian stuff (Aren't some of the RR range lima heritage too?)

 

Unfortunately, I just don't have enough knowledge to know what is good and what is bad when it comes to models of the past. SRman for example advised that the Lima 73 body was better than the current Hornby one, but the latter obviously has much better running characteristics.

 

With that in mind, are there any obvious items in the RR range which stand out as punching above their weight-class, or conversely those which should be avoided with severe prejudice? I'd like to open this as a general discussion,

 

Best,

[Ramblin Rich]

The class 31 is of Lima heritage with reworked chassis which gives better profile wheels. The Lima body is felt to be a better shape than the Hornby super detail version, but Hornby effectively hobbled the railroad version by giving it a mix of features from different eras: you get a modernised front with sealed gangways, but original sides with the 'waistbands' and footsteps, original roof exhaust and boiler exhaust. So the railroad version is a good donor if a chassis if you have a Lima body. I am wondering if it would be possible to back date the cab fronts to give a late 70s version with sealed gangways but extending the waistbands around onto the cab fronts, but really that also needs the footsteps filling in and different exhaust arrangements.

[SRman]

Hi all,

 

If I'm not mistaken the Hornby Railroad range consists of models of fairly old lineage that are reissued as an affordable option by Hornby. This seems to me like a great opportunity to mess around with detailing/etc. as I have done with my old Lima bits - but potentially with a better set of bones than the pancake-motored italian stuff (Aren't some of the RR range lima heritage too?)

 

Unfortunately, I just don't have enough knowledge to know what is good and what is bad when it comes to models of the past. SRman for example advised that the Lima 73 body was better than the current Hornby one, but the latter obviously has much better running characteristics.

 

With that in mind, are there any obvious items in the RR range which stand out as punching above their weight-class, or conversely those which should be avoided with severe prejudice? I'd like to open this as a general discussion,

 

Best,

Hi. That's not quite what I indicated: the Hornby class 73 is the same as the Lima one body-wise, but in some cases they have simplified the paint schemes. The actual detailing is exactly the same. However, I think the body grille detail, even though it doesn't include etched stuff, is better than the etched grilles on the much newer Dapol examples.

 

Anyway, in my opinion, the good ones from Lima and Hornby RailRoad include the aforementioned class 73 (early Lima ones had tiny round buffers, Hornby still get it wrong n some), and classes 31, 40, 59, 101, and 121. All of these are in the Hornby RailRoad range, but some have simplified liveries.

 

The less good ones, with compromises in their body or bogie detailing or scaling, or simply needing flush-glazing to bring them up, include classes 09, 20 (dimensional errors but good mechanism, looks reasonably good anyway), 37 (well covered in another topic), 47, 50 (HO bogies), 52 (compromised front overhang and skirts), 55 (too short and on HO bogies, but doesn't look too bad), 67 (good mechanisms),  87 (the front end never looked right to me), 117 (no DMS and no flush glazing) and GWR railcars (need flush glazing).

 

Probably the worst for accuracy include classes 26, 27, 33, 42, and 156 (the latter looks good but is let down by the almost complete lack of underfloor detail). As you have proved, the 33 can brush up OK, in spite of the dimensional inaccuracies of the cab ends in particular. I did several of these myself many years ago, including converting one to a 33/1, but parted company with them when the Heljan models came along. Mine all had the decent plated wheels, which helped considerably with the running and electrical pickup.

 

I may have forgotten some models in there, and others may disagree with some of my opinions. 

Edited November 10, 2018 by SRman

[County of Yorkshire]

The GWR Halls - especially at prices likes this - are excellent models. The running quality is superb and these models don't take too much to bring them up to scratch...

 

CoY

[The Johnster]

The 0-6-0s are smooth runners when you've faffed around with the pickups a bit and ballasted them properly.  If you want a detailing project, the 2721, which needs new chimney, safety valve cover, and cab roof, is very satisfying despite it's incorrect Jinty wheelbase.

 

A problem with the 0-6-0s is the plastic skirt beneath the boiler, particularly noticeable on a pannier tank but better shaded that on the Jinty or J83.

 

You have to put up with big, pre-NEM couplers, and some of the models, such as the Crosti 9F, are priced at not much of a different level to the main range.  But I am quite happy with my one Railroad mk1, a BG; captures the look superbly!

[mozzer models]

The 0-6-0s are smooth runners when you've faffed around with the pickups a bit and ballasted them properly.  If you want a detailing project, the 2721, which needs new chimney, safety valve cover, and cab roof, i

 

You have to put up with big, pre-NEM couplers, and some of the models, such as the Crosti 9F, are priced at not much of a different level to the main range.  But I am quite happy with my one Railroad mk1, a BG; captures the look superbly!

I just replace the coulping with a backmann small one 

[JSpencer]

A couple of pics comparing the Lima 73 to Dapol's and a couple Heljan diesels thrown in to compare the yellows.

 

The Lima moulded body is very good and stands up well against Dapol's with etched grills and working lights. However the bogies are far more advanced in terms of detail on the new Dapol model.

Both makes gave done JA and JB types.

 

The livery of the Lima model is one of their early releases (Broadlands from when I was a kid), later liveries (those produced in the 90s) were superb,

 

Hornby took the Lima model, changed the motor and added smaller couplings. Being a Railroad model, finish does not match Lima later products. If you can get a Hornby and Lima for less than the Dapol model, then this is a way forwards.

 

 

 

[adb968008]

I still maintain a legacy Lima / Hornby fleet of 20, 27, 31,37, 40,47, 58, 60, 73,92, 101,117, 156.

The lima 20, apart of handrails stands up well to Hornby / Bachmann and its pulling characteristics are fantastic.

As mentioned earlier the 31 from Lima on a Hornby railroad body is a good upgrade, as is the 37,40 and 47.

For the most part though ive parted with a lot of chassis / boxes and retained the body shells, that allows me a considerable number, in low weight and minimal storage space, whilst recognising theres a max i will ever use at the same time.

 

Part of the reason for mainting is the sheer volume of liveries made but not repeated in Lima days... and they are cheap... 100 bodies at c£5 a piece is £500... the same cost as Approx 3x Bachmann new diesels.

 

Ive cleared my 09,25,26,29, 35,42,50,52, 56, 59,66, 67, 87, 90, 91, 121 apart from sentimental ones.

 

The worst pair in my opinion is the 50 & 55, which have HO scale bogies dating back to the mid 70’s when Lima hadnt decided on OO being the future, there was a plan to address it in the early 1990’s by using class 37 bogies on the class 50 (and remove the sandboxes, but as BR were withdrawing them and sales were through the roof there seemed like little point given how well the old one was doing), there would have been an issue with the footsteps on the 37 bogie which were in the wrong place too).

 

For class 27/ 33 ive upgraded the locos using Heljan class 26 chassis which are selling circa £35 each currently, and with minimal effort are a straight replacement, plus flush glazing. The Heljan 27 in Tops blue is like hens teeth currently, let alone a 27/1 or 27/2.

 

Railroad is ok as a range, if there was a bit more attention to quality / accuracy of the paintjob & finish it would be really good, but suspect for the most part it does its job as a trainset toy, and supply of chassis for those of us with older ones still to upgrade. As with everything you get what you pay for.

Edited November 12, 2018 by adb968008

[adb968008]

A couple of pics comparing the Lima 73 to Dapol's and a couple Heljan diesels thrown in to compare the yellows.

The Lima moulded body is very good and stands up well against Dapol's with etched grills and working lights. However the bogies are far more advanced in terms of detail on the new Dapol model.

Both makes gave done JA and JB types.

The livery of the Lima model is one of their early releases (Broadlands from when I was a kid), later liveries (those produced in the 90s) were superb,

Hornby took the Lima model, changed the motor and added smaller couplings. Being a Railroad model, finish does not match Lima later products. If you can get a Hornby and Lima for less than the Dapol model, then this is a way forwards.

image.jpg

image.jpg

image.jpg

Just replacing the buffers on 73142, with Hornby class 20 buffers improves the look of this one no end.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-X9853-Ex-Lima-Class-20-Round-Buffers-Pk4/232971041671?hash=item363e27fb87:g:PKcAAOSw-W9bH6XJ

Edited November 11, 2018 by adb968008

[tomparryharry]

Reading your topic gave me some thoughts. I wondered if Hornby released the old Lima 94xx pannier, in a Railroad range?

 

I'm not looking to ruffle any feathers, but, just a thought.....

 

Ian.

[cheesysmith]

I would disagree with the Lima/Hornby class 20. Good chassis let down by a body in which every panel/hatch is the wrong size and in the wrong place, including the roof fan. It just bugs me that it is so close. And with the price of used Bachmann one, if needing a bit of patience, not woth the effort.

 

The 156 is well worth the effort. There was a old issue of RM where someone scratch built a replacement under frame for one, getting rid of the box with details. Apart from wipers for the cabs, and the handrails under the cab windows, the bodies don't need touching.

[cheesysmith]

The class 40, is a bit of a mixed reception. I got one to do up, and was going to use twin railroad motor bogies in it, but then got hold of the upgrade article in the RE. A lot of alterations needed, and to my eyes the old Bachmann ones with the slightly too small bodies looked ok, especially with how cheap they are/were.

 

The 31 is worth it. I have 12 (or is it more?, I lost count) Lima ones on chassis repowered with drives and bogies from the super detailed Hornby ones (god bless mazac rot).

 

The 47 is worth the effort, but be warned the bogies are too small due to using a standard sized power bogie. Mine have Heljan bogies under them (mazac again) and the difference is noticeable.

[The Johnster]

Reading your topic gave me some thoughts. I wondered if Hornby released the old Lima 94xx pannier, in a Railroad range?

 

I'm not looking to ruffle any feathers, but, just a thought.....

 

Ian.

 

You bad*ss, Ian.  If it had the proper wheel spacing, coupling rods (the reason we'll never see a Hornby 94xx of course) and space between the frames at the front as per 9411 onwards, I'd 'ave one!

 

Reckon Oxford are a better bet, though!

[Forester]

The Hornby Schools class were always well ahead of their time.

Even now the Super-detail Schools range struggles to persuade owners of the previous (now Railroad) models to upgrade.

[John M Upton]

I do like the Railroad spec Mk1s which if you shop around can be had for as little as a tenner. A few transfers, a little titivating and some fresh metal wheels and there you are.

[nathan70000]

The Railroad spec BR Black D49 (not so sure about the LNER one), the Schools Class, the BR Green Patriot and the County 4-6-0 are quite decent models for the price and don't look out of place alongside newer more detailed models. I've also heard good things about the Class 40 and the Jinty but I haven't had any personal experience of those. I'd stay away from the Railroad Warship, possibly the Deltic and the non-Caley Pug 0-4-0s.

[Robin Brasher]

I am very pleased with my A4 Golden Fleece. To the untrained eye it looks just as good as the much more expensive Hornby Bittern and runs just as well. I think that items like the LNER Flying Scotsman are let down by the simplified lining. 

 

I think a Railroad version of Princess Elizabeth in LMS livery would be very successful as it did not have much lining.

[tomparryharry]

You bad*ss, Ian.  If it had the proper wheel spacing, coupling rods (the reason we'll never see a Hornby 94xx of course) and space between the frames at the front as per 9411 onwards, I'd 'ave one!

 

Reckon Oxford are a better bet, though!

How, or where, did Oxford enter the equation? I'll stick with my Mainline-Lima conversion. With a bit of work, it can be made to work on DCC, although my stuff is all analogue. It's out a millimetre here & there, but nothing to get too stressed about. With an expected RRP price of £150-160, I can get a reasonable model for about a quarter of the price, Naturally, there are other variations of the theme out there.

 

As a brief aside, I notice the 94xx prices on Eeh-Bah-Gum have risen considerably in the last year or so. I wonder why?

 

Ian.

[Hroth]

The Hornby Schools class were always well ahead of their time.

Even now the Super-detail Schools range struggles to persuade owners of the previous (now Railroad) models to upgrade.

When Hattons had their last big Hornby Clearout Sale, thay had Westminster (R3311) on offer at the same price as the then current Railroad "School", £74.

 

Westminster is a lovely, detailed model, but is so fragile that things fall off if you just breathe on it. I spent the first week glueing bits back on...  A Railroad School is so much more robust, ideal for layout use!

[John M Upton]

Is the Railroad Schools Class still tender drive?

[frobisher]

Is the Railroad Schools Class still tender drive?

Nope, but it has a DCC socket there - they produced a motorised version of their generic 4-4-0 chassis for the Railroad re-releases; I seem to recall the Schools was always the least compromised of the 4 (Schools, D49, County and Midland Compound) in that department.

[Steamport Southport]

The Hornby Schools class were always well ahead of their time.

Even now the Super-detail Schools range struggles to persuade owners of the previous (now Railroad) models to upgrade.

 

It was a bit rubbish when it came out, never mind now!

 

 

Very poor compared to the models Mainline and Airfix were making at the time. Unfortunately Airfix went bust before their version appeared.

 

 

The problem with the new version is the chassis. Especially the fact that it has traction tyres. The bogie needs replacing as well.

 

 

 

Jason

[Black 5 Bear]

The Crosti 9f has got to be the best Railroad model as yet produced.

Maybe time for Hornby to consider the later, conventional rebuild in their range at some stage.

[Hroth]

Not strictly a Railroad model, but the outgoing TTE "Henry the Blue Engine" is based on the tender drive D49. 

 

As its pretending to be Henry, its minus cylinders and valve gear, making the huge gap between the bogie and the rest of the loco painfully apparent.  It also posesses an anorexically thin, over-long drainpipe chimney.  I won't reflect on the face that replaces the smokebox door!

 

I don't know why they didn't repurpose the 2P 4-4-0 as it looks a bit more "natural" as an inside cylinder engine.

[exet1095]

Not strictly a Railroad model, but the outgoing TTE "Henry the Blue Engine" is based on the tender drive D49.

 

As its pretending to be Henry, its minus cylinders and valve gear, making the huge gap between the bogie and the rest of the loco painfully apparent. It also posesses an anorexically thin, over-long drainpipe chimney. I won't reflect on the face that replaces the smokebox door!

 

I don't know why they didn't repurpose the 2P 4-4-0 as it looks a bit more "natural" as an inside cylinder engine.

When speaking in such an authoritative tone, it is helpful not to make a basic error.

 

The D49 tooling is “Edward”. He is blue. Henry the Green Engine is the old tender-drive Black 5.