Buyers with attitude!

[Torper]

54 minutes ago, 247 Developments said:

How can you include postage it may need sending to the UK low cost OR it could also go anywhere in the world so High cost  

 

Presumably the same way that all those eBay sellers who include post charges in their headline price do?  As it happens, I'm in the market for a sleeping bag so I've just looked for one on eBay.  Of the first 20 that showed up, only two added a postage charge - all the others were "Fast and Free" or "free postage" which means that they are including the carriage costs in their headline price.  Ebay, in common with most shopping cart systems, also has a facility to add a carriage charge if the customer wants express delivery or lives abroad - if I wanted my sleeping bag to go to the USA, for example, I'd go the the bit under "Postage" that says "Post to Worldwide: see Exclusions", would click on exclusions, and that would calculate and add the additional sum I'd have to pay for it to be sent to the USA (£4.95, as it happens).   It's not rocket science.

 

DT

[polybear]

On 19/04/2019 at 00:40, teacupteacup said:

I recently sold a wagon on ebay.  The listing stated there were no couplings attached but I would include non-original couplings, to be glued/screwed on by the buyer,  plus there were a few marks on the bodyshell, all pointed out.  The person who won the auction messaged to say he was pleased to get the wagon for a good price and as he was (in his own words) "a modeller, I will detail and weather the wagon down to my exacting standards".  

 

I was messaged by him a few days later stating he wanted a refund as the couplings werent attached and not suitable for the wagon (I sent NEM couplings and sockets).  I repeated what the listing said about having to fit the couplings to which he replied that he wasnt capable of doing such tricky work!!!

 

Not that much of a modeller then!

 

I refunded him, got the wagon back and relisted it.  I received a message from the same buyer giving me abuse for selling crap on ebay and he said there was no way I would get it sold, I was a chancer etc etc etc.  The wagon sold for more than the first time around!

 

Again I received a message from him accusing me of putting false bids in to drive the price up and that he would report me to ebay and get my account closed down.  Heard nothing from ebay and I've since noticed that his account is no longer active!

 

Complete fool if you ask me!

 

I salute your cool, calm attitude sir.  Despite being a cute,cuddly little bear I'm pretty sure I would've told him to go f**k himself with the rough end of a pineapple (personally I've always struggled with working out which is actually the rough end though - I guess it depends on what kind of mood you're in).

 

About the only thing I've ever struggled with selling was a leccy sewing machine, with "collect only" in the terms.  One "winner" was in Edinburgh, the machine was in Herts.....

The next winner pm'd me to ask how big and heavy it was (clue: it's a sewing machine, matey) as they'd be coming on the bus etc etc.   So I measured and weighed it .  It was blatantly obvious they were looking for me to deliver it .  If the buyer had turned up on foot etc. I've said "come on, hop in and I'll run you home with it, as they only lived 3 miles away.  No payment, ignored messages etc.  So I went thru' the Ebay dispute procedure in order to cancel the seller's fees.  End result was I lost the opportunity to leave negative feedback, so Mr/Mrs Timewaster still sat there with 100%....yeah', right.....

Next buyer turned up as promised and was a pleased as punch with it, so it worked out ok in the end.

[hayfield]

10 hours ago, 247 Developments said:

How can you include postage it may need sending to the UK low cost OR it could also go anywhere in the world so High cost  

 

 

I can understand to a certain where DT is coming from, but for loads of reasons its totally  unworkable

 

 

[Torper]

7 hours ago, hayfield said:

I can understand to a certain where DT is coming from, but for loads of reasons its totally  unworkable

 

It's only unworkable if you don't want it to be workable.  But I'd be interested to know what these "loads of reasons" are.  I think that I've coutered the rarther few reasons that have been forward so far and it is clear that a large number of sellers, both on ebay and elsewhere, manage to include carriage in their headline price without any apparent difficulty.  It's a bit like VAT - I remember when quite a few companies used to advertise their goods at what seemed a very keen price until you got to the shopping cart and found that VAT had to be added.  Fortunately, that practice seems to have largely stopped now.

 

DT

[hayfield]

DT

 

Quite simply as 247 Developements has stated its totally unworkable and confusing for those who sell low value items, under the way it works now I add to the basket all the items I require then postage is added. Now a retailer would have to have a 3 tier pricing system with your proposal, one for face to face sales the other, a second for singular sales, then a third of more for multiple sales. that is for UK sales there would be a totallt tier of prices for overseas sales Totally unworkable and confusing

 

Now I look at a packet of washers which was £2, now £6 to pay for the so called free postage, I wand some nuts to go with it, they were also £2 but now are now listed at £6  to cover the free posting, but I get some money off but how much ? what if I want something else.

 

Far easier to know P&P is £4, then find the correct price for each item, why reinvent the wheel

 

You seem fixated on the word FREE, when really it should state "the price includes postage", its not free postage as the seller has to pay for the postage and passes the cost on to the buyer.

 

Now if Mr 247 tells me the cost of said nuts is £2 whether I collect them or he posts them to me, perhaps could be seen to be free, but he will not stay in business long if he is not passing on the postage cost of low cost items to the customers. 

[Torper]

I do see that, John, and am perhaps coming round a bit more to your way of thinking (now there's a surprise!).  My original gripe related to companies that take out big adverts in magazines such as Radio Times offering an item for (in big bold letters at the top of the page) "ONLY £16.50".  That's good value, you think, but then discover at the foot of the page that £4.95 is to be added for carriage, which means that if you want it it isn't ONLY £16.50, it's actually £21.45, which isn't anything like such good value.  I still think that's wrong and should be corrected.  I'm also heartened to note that so many ebay sellers are offering "free" postage, even on low cost items - I did a search for M2 screws, for example, and all of the first 50 items that showed up (mostly priced at about £1.25) gave free postage, the same with M2 washers.

 

However, I had rather forgotten that not everything is sold through ebay, and I do take your point about mail order companies offering a wide selection of goods and getting a lot of multiple orders.  So while I still think that actively advertising a mail order product for one price when it can only be obtained by paying a higher price is wrong, and while I will continue to give my ebay custom to those businesses that offer free postage, I can see that it could be inappropriate for companies selling goods in the general scheme of things rather than by direct advertising.

 

I always say that the sign of an agile mind is the ability to change it.....

 

DT

Edited April 21, 2019 by Torper
Grammar!

[hayfield]

DT

 

I get as frustrated with companies that show prices net of VAT, wrongly assuming that everyone pays VAT. This usually occurs with builders merchants and motor factors. I understand that those who dealing with the trade historically show the net price, but unless its exported to a non EU country everyone pays gross. But agree with you on mail order offers where postage and other fees are both in small print and a condition of the sale

 

As I said in a much earlier reply I do agree that perhaps larger concerns who also supply through other retail establishments could easily absorb the postage on higher value sales, but that could bring them in conflict with their retail customers

 

The other anonymity is when buying items from Chinese companies, where it is cheaper to post something from China (where postage is heavily subsidised)  than within this country

 

At the end of the day whether its a pallet load of bricks or a loco off eBay (coupled with the quality I require) I go for what is the cheapest price for the item.

 

A lot of folk have a beef with eBay, now its a free world and we all can go whichever way we choose, but to state the level of commission eBay charge as the reason, when traditional auction houses regularly charge 4 times the commission and 60% of my sales are £1 (their offer weekends) or less in commission seems stupid. Just say you do not like the company !!! But I do accept and would use in preference a seller offering free posting if its the cheapest option.  

 

Good to have a discussion and hopefully one which may save you a few bob, always remember being told by a work colleague who took me out to lunch "there is no such thing as a free lunch"

[Crosland]

On 20/04/2019 at 12:04, chris p bacon said:

There is no difference with VAT and no advantage to the traders what price is charged.  The larger trader only sends off the difference between what he paid and what he collects (£2) meaning the bottom line for the 2 traders is the same.. 

 

The way I see it is that the VAT registered trader pays £12 and sells at £24 (a difference of £12). When he completes his VAT return he hands over £2 (output tax - input tax) to HMRC and has a profit in his hands of £24 - £12 - £2 = £10.

 

The unregistered trader buys at £12 and sells at £24 and makes a profit of £12.

 

This is why unregistered businesses can undercut registered  businesses and make the same profit. The problem comes when they hit the VAT registration threshold and suddenly find they need to raise their prices or take a hit on profit. I know businesses who deliberately keep their turnover below the threshold.

 

[polybear]

I have cause on occasion to visit and stay in/near Bolton whilst on business.  You'd be surprised just how many Indian Restaurants in Bolton (despite being large premises with more than yer average number of tables) claim not to be VAT registered when asked for a VAT receipt for my expenses.....

[adb968008]

On 26/03/2019 at 07:11, Markwj said:

Not sure who some ebay buyers think they are received this email message about one of my items yesterday. I realise the prosepective buyer may be a member here but I really object to the terminology used- I admitted to the bodyside scratch it's very clear on the pictures and it's in the description and to be fair i missed the handrail- how do I justify the postage charge well Heljan models are heavy. Have been selling models on eBay for some time and have lost out on postage charges a few times but I would never knowingly rip someone off. After an email exchange where I promised to refund if postage was excessive guess what -didn't bid- time waster! All for a £50 Heljan 47.

 

 

New message from: 

Apart from your description of this item admitting body side scratch, there is also one cab grab hand rail broken off at this location. Also Royal Mail 1st class charge increased today is only £5.50 for a small package up to 2 kilos gross weight including packaging [which this model qualifies for adequately packaged]. Therefore how do you justify charging £8.50 for postage?

Reply

 

 

 

Going back to the original post, the thing I would do in this circumstance is block them from bidding in the future.

Theres thousands of buyers out there, you wont miss a few trouble makers.

 

I ban anyone that raises any objection of any kind, such as an unexpected blemish or complaint about the postage guy leaving it in an odd place, even if they keep it...The next time with that customer is usually worse. Ive not enough time in my life to deal with it, so thanks, good bye, your banned, oh and I add your email address from paypal too, so UserID changes locks you out too. Finally, keep their physical address, if they try to circumvent the UserId ban by the well known other means (its happened), I just supply it to ebay, who subsequently blocks their paypal account from the site  & bars that physical address from being used for delivery.

 

I have about 50 / 80 people on my banned list, though many are no longer registered (obviously i’m not alone in recognising many of these) .  Certainly anyone dishonest, abusing returns etc. Ive no exceptions.

 

Indeed I was wondering the merits of sharing my banned user lists with other fellow modellers so that collectively bad apples who affect anyone can be shared with everyone.

 

Theres many websites online that share ebay blocked bidder user lists, however most are anyone buying anything generic.

 

A modellers community specific bad experience userid list (minus personal data) shared around could save many of us pain, even if it was shared privately. 

Edited May 26, 2019 by adb968008

[Andymsa]

On 26/05/2019 at 16:25, adb968008 said:

 

Going back to the original post, the thing I would do in this circumstance is block them from bidding in the future.

Theres thousands of buyers out there, you wont miss a few trouble makers.

 

I ban anyone that raises any objection of any kind, such as an unexpected blemish or complaint about the postage guy leaving it in an odd place, even if they keep it...The next time with that customer is usually worse. Ive not enough time in my life to deal with it, so thanks, good bye, your banned, oh and I add your email address from paypal too, so UserID changes locks you out too. Finally, keep their physical address, if they try to circumvent the UserId ban by the well known other means (its happened), I just supply it to ebay, who subsequently blocks their paypal account from the site  & bars that physical address from being used for delivery.

 

I have about 50 / 80 people on my banned list, though many are no longer registered (obviously i’m not alone in recognising many of these) .  Certainly anyone dishonest, abusing returns etc. Ive no exceptions.

 

Indeed I was wondering the merits of sharing my banned user lists with other fellow modellers so that collectively bad apples who affect anyone can be shared with everyone.

 

Theres many websites online that share ebay blocked bidder user lists, however most are anyone buying anything generic.

 

A modellers community specific bad experience userid list (minus personal data) shared around could save many of us pain, even if it was shared privately. 

 

Although I can sympathise why you want to have no further dealings with problem buyers, maybe a poor choice of words as your comments came across as very blunt that you ban anyone with objections of any kind. Does this apply to genuine issues a buyer may have as well? As this gives the impression you could be an seller with attitude, if I'm wrong I apologise 

Edited May 27, 2019 by Andymsa

[adb968008]

3 hours ago, Andymsa said:

 

Although I can sympathise why you want to have no further dealings with problem buyers, maybe a poor choice of words as your comments came across as very blunt that you ban anyone with objections of any kind. Does this apply to genuine issues a buyer may have as well? As this gives the impression you could be an seller with attitude, if I'm wrong I apologise 

 

You can label me as a seller with attitude, but its my money that’s being blown.

 

A sale is only a sale if it completes successfully, I know that being upfront about an items condition, even if that lowers its sale price is better than having a mid-described item returned and refunded at my cost.

 

However ebay allows a buyer an unquestioned unconditional option to negotiate (ransom) a better price post sale or a route to abuse returns.

 

Every buyer who returns something costs me two directions in postage minimum. That’s before any parts they might swap, damage either in handling by themselves or the courier.

 

So I protect myself from the outset with a 1 chance your out policy. As I said all sellers are exposed to it, if they shared their banned list, very quickly the bad apples would be weeded out. How much a seller wants to protect themselves is up to the individual... at the end of the day i’m not a shop or a business, I have a family and a job.. so my precious modelling time is that, I’m not interested In wasting it with time/my money wasters.?. I do find “complaints” is a seasonal thing... right now is season.. assumably balancing the hobby with the summer holiday budget people get “picky” and some get a bit opportunistic.

 

To put balance i’d say it’s in the minority, 1-2% overall, almost every one I sell is good and I’ve a lot of repeat buyers, my feedback is positive and I try my best to keep it that way, but it’s a two way street. (My experience comes from the sale of my late fathers collection last year which was considerably above average in size), it gave me a very large exposure to the buyers of ebay, it was distressing to have swapped items returned on multiple occasions, and mysterious “buffers” or other trivial bits magically disappear from an up damaged parcel that was delivered, but I know were present when posted, with a request for £20 etc discount. I checked each myself, in some cases (high value) I even photographed the wrapping process to be 100%..and included a secret identifier, something that saw ebay find in my favour and those buyers removed from ebay, as they didn’t expect such a robust defensive approach from a seller.

 

if I’ve attitude, it’s through experience, and that experience is as soon as the first negative comment comes in, it’s never getting better, cut your losses, get it back and block them...i’m not a shop, I don’t make money, indeed I only lose, and it’s just a hobby.

Edited May 27, 2019 by adb968008

[Andymsa]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

 

You can label me as a seller with attitude, but its my money that’s being blown.

 

A sale is only a sale if it completes successfully, I know that being upfront about an items condition, even if that lowers its sale price is better than having a mid-described item returned and refunded at my cost.

 

However ebay allows a buyer an unquestioned unconditional option to negotiate (ransom) a better price post sale or a route to abuse returns.

 

Every buyer who returns something costs me two directions in postage minimum. That’s before any parts they might swap, damage either in handling by themselves or the courier.

 

So I protect myself from the outset with a 1 chance your out policy. As I said all sellers are exposed to it, if they shared their banned list, very quickly the bad apples would be weeded out. How much a seller wants to protect themselves is up to the individual... at the end of the day i’m not a shop or a business, I have a family and a job.. so my precious modelling time is that, I’m not interested In wasting it with time/my money wasters.?. I do find “complaints” is a seasonal thing... right now is season.. assumably balancing the hobby with the summer holiday budget people get “picky” and some get a bit opportunistic.

 

To put balance i’d say it’s in the minority, 1-2% overall, almost every one I sell is good and I’ve a lot of repeat buyers, my feedback is positive and I try my best to keep it that way, but it’s a two way street. (My experience comes from the sale of my late fathers collection last year which was considerably above average in size), it gave me a very large exposure to the buyers of ebay, it was distressing to have swapped items returned on multiple occasions, and mysterious “buffers” or other trivial bits magically disappear from an up damaged parcel that was delivered, but I know were present when posted, with a request for £20 etc discount. I checked each myself, in some cases (high value) I even photographed the wrapping process to be 100%..and included a secret identifier, something that saw ebay find in my favour and those buyers removed from ebay, as they didn’t expect such a robust defensive approach from a seller.

 

if I’ve attitude, it’s through experience, and that experience is as soon as the first negative comment comes in, it’s never getting better, cut your losses, get it back and block them...i’m not a shop, I don’t make money, indeed I only lose, and it’s just a hobby.

 

Clearly I have hit a nerve, and you didn't read my post throughly as I did say I sympathise with you, and your post gave the impression of attitude. I wasn't giving you any labels but you didn't arnswer the question are genuine issues treated the same way?.  

 

I do agree that ebays policies are biased towards the buyer, that's why I no longer sell via eBay also they dictate on methods of payment depending on the value of the item being sold. But if your unhappy with selling through eBay even with the 1-2% bad apples on eBay there are other methods of selling.

 

but let me give two examples I recently had with buying, the first was I ordered an item and the courier left it outside my door, the courier forged my signature and left it on show. Unfortunately it was stolen, Unknown to the courier I have numerous cctv cameras which shows these events and I could even prove I was in hospital at the time. 

 

The second was I ordered a number of electronic boards all worked bar one, I contacted the seller to see if they had any issues themselves, which they hadn't but I said I'll look at it myself as I had experience with these boards to see if I could resolve the issue. Luckily I could. So under your criteria I would be labled as bad buyer.

 

obviously you took steps to protect yourself and I can't blame you for that, and again I can't blame you for blocking bad buyers where proven, but not all complaints or comments on a sale are false is the point I make. There is even a possibility I may I purchased from you even who knows.

[adb968008]

Ok i re-read it, and yes it is a sore point, but to answer your question...

Quote

The second was I ordered a number of electronic boards all worked bar one, I contacted the seller to see if they had any issues themselves, which they hadn't but I said I'll look at it myself as I had experience with these boards to see if I could resolve the issue. Luckily I could. So under your criteria I would be labled as bad buyer.

Yes I would.

 

i’m not a shop, I don't rely on this as income, its about minimising loss by selling it myself. I therefore don't rely on “new business” or needing to keep a customer happy for the future. Its a transaction no different to selling old furniture instead of throwing it away.

 

This time you spot an issue, next time your looking twice as hard and in the future may return it or seek discount, rightfully or wrongly. I know on my side I apply a high enough standard, often to my detriment before I list as honestly as I can. You may live in a place where the only way to deliver is to throw a package off a cliff, or open parcels with an axe, I dont know.

 

So I would block you and sell to someone else, harsh but its my money at risk and I've already lost enough of it buying new before shops discount it heavily and theres thousands of other buyers out there, and even if I've banned everyone on ebay, theres always Rails or Hattons.

 

But I do know that everything that leaves me, has done so with pictures from every angle, has been tested, dusted, wheels cleaned, and if theres marks, scratches, dents, obvious bits missing on or in the box, its declared. I might be infallible, but theres no excuse the buyer not looking at the pictures either, and if they say it doesn't work, I know that it did (or declared it didn't).

 

If someone buys from me, its as described, theyve nothing to fear, and I have a quite a lot of followers, as a result of clearing my dads old stuff last year, I had over 1000 items to dispose in 2017/18, at a rate of 20 a week, it took a year, a retailer couldn't apply my standard and remain profitable, this  introduces the potential weakness in your example making your scenario valid, but I didn't so it isn't.

 

So I must be a seller with attitude ?  (My feedback > 2500, 100% +  and try my best to keep it that way, with a complaints policy that is “block them first” then sort it out ? I recognise If I went into “for profit” and sought to do this as an income I would need to soften my stance, but whilst my average loss is c25% and my need to sell is to make space it will be on my terms.

Edited May 28, 2019 by adb968008

[hayfield]

9 hours ago, Andymsa said:

 

Clearly I have hit a nerve, and you didn't read my post throughly as I did say I sympathise with you, and your post gave the impression of attitude. I wasn't giving you any labels but you didn't arnswer the question are genuine issues treated the same way?.  

 

I do agree that ebays policies are biased towards the buyer, that's why I no longer sell via eBay also they dictate on methods of payment depending on the value of the item being sold. But if your unhappy with selling through eBay even with the 1-2% bad apples on eBay there are other methods of selling.

 

but let me give two examples I recently had with buying, the first was I ordered an item and the courier left it outside my door, the courier forged my signature and left it on show. Unfortunately it was stolen, Unknown to the courier I have numerous cctv cameras which shows these events and I could even prove I was in hospital at the time. 

 

The second was I ordered a number of electronic boards all worked bar one, I contacted the seller to see if they had any issues themselves, which they hadn't but I said I'll look at it myself as I had experience with these boards to see if I could resolve the issue. Luckily I could. So under your criteria I would be labled as bad buyer.

 

obviously you took steps to protect yourself and I can't blame you for that, and again I can't blame you for blocking bad buyers where proven, but not all complaints or comments on a sale are false is the point I make. There is even a possibility I may I purchased from you even who knows.

 

Being a modeller I am both a buyer and seller in equal amounts, as I look to buy items that are to me at a good price, often ending up buying a lot, keeping the item(s) I wanted and selling the rest.

 

Thankfully either as a buyer or seller I have few problems, most of those I have had is as a buyer. In well over 10 years as a seller I have had 3 items lost in the post and the Royal Mail were fine about compensation, and one item slightly damaged, since then I have spent more time on packing. Certainly the issues folk have had with courier firms my reliance on the Royal Mail is well founded. To date I cannot really think of any problem buyers, in fact quite the opposite many seem to be very friendly and appreciative.

 

On the whole I have found the model railway fraternity to be a very decent lot, both as a buyer and seller. 

[chris p bacon]

As a buyer this is a reasonable question.

9 hours ago, Andymsa said:

The second was I ordered a number of electronic boards all worked bar one, I contacted the seller to see if they had any issues themselves, which they hadn't but I said I'll look at it myself as I had experience with these boards to see if I could resolve the issue. Luckily I could. So under your criteria I would be labled as bad buyer.

 

But as a seller this isn't the answer that you should give.

 

37 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Yes I would.

 

Reading your first posts I had sympathy for you as I also have dealt with an estate sale, but if you were listing and sending 20+ items a week as well as home life and work, then I doubt you would actually able to keep to the rigid criteria you set, and there is a likelihood that a model was sent that wasn't as good as you thought it was.

I listed less items per week and didn't (still don't) have any problems at all.

 

As for passing details of peoples addresses and paypal account accounts to others,  I think you're on decidedly sticky ground there.

[adb968008]

34 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 

As for passing details of peoples addresses and paypal account accounts to others,  I think you're on decidedly sticky ground there.

I think your on the sticky ground there, as thats not what i said.

To be specific..

Quote

userid list (minus personal data)

Best keep to facts on sensitive subjects.  There is no personally identifiable data there,  such lists already exist on dedicated websites.

 

As for doubts on my abilities, Are you seeking to  judge me by what standard ?

Are you suggesting I am not capable and questioning my honesty ?

 

unfortunately Ive had exposure to a dusting of rubbish on ebay, in the volume I had to dispose, and can only offer sympathy to those who do it as a business and therefore see this with far more irregularity than my experience. I think good buyers don't realise this, and bad buyers exploit this.

 

But I started with feedback of 0 like everyone else, and only got to my decisions on being hard with buyers through experience.

 

I think rather than casting an image over my ability / honesty it might be wiser to suggest we have different tolerance levels ?

 

I also put to you that you've no idea what I was actually selling, which both the product, price can affect the customer profile attracted... it could be T gauge sheep for all you know and are judging me on, (apologies to T gauge sheep farmers).

 

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by adb968008

[chris p bacon]

24 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Are you suggesting I am not capable and questioning my honesty

 

 The question from Andymsa was simple one where he outlined receipt of a faulty item, but was willing to look at it and fix it himself if possible. Your reply was that he would be blocked as a bad buyer. 

You might think this is acceptable behaviour,  but I think that ignoring a problem with a sale and blocking the purchaser is dishonest.

31 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

But I started with feedback of 0 like everyone else, and only got to my decisions on being hard with buyers through experience.

 

I have a higher feedback rating and have had none of the problems you have seemingly encountered.

 

32 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I think rather than casting an image over my ability / honesty it might be wiser to suggest we have different tolerance levels

 

Of that there seems no doubt. 

[Allegheny1600]

I have to agree with adb, I am a fairly typical modeller in that I have chopped and changed quite a bit over the years and I used to trade my stuff in at friendly model shops but since the advent of eBay, I find it does recover more money by selling on there.

on the odd, rare occasion I have even made a profit!

However, there seem to be an ever increasing number of people out there who delight in trying to rip you off!

 I have seen definite examples of shill bidding (ignored by eBay!) as well as liars, cheats and con merchants.

Therefore, the idea of creating a shared list of such charlatans of both sellers and buyers is very appealing to me.

Cheers,

John

[njee20]

I'm not sure how blocking a bidder who has a legitimate claim (or any other) is dishonest. It may be heavy handed, but not dishonest.

 

I've blocked a few people for being awkward - taking a long time over paying, or generally being irritating. It's my prerogative as a seller to limit my market. If I didn't want to sell to anyone called Phil then that's still my prerogative, just a bit daft, but it's not dishonest. 

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, chris p bacon said:

 

 Your reply was that he would be blocked as a bad buyer. 

You might think this is acceptable behaviour,  but I think that ignoring a problem with a sale and blocking the purchaser is dishonest.

 

Ah, but thats not what I said either.

 

Quote

However ebay allows a buyer an unquestioned unconditional option to negotiate (ransom) a better price post sale or a route to abuse returns.

 

Every buyer who returns something costs me two directions in postage minimum. That’s before any parts they might swap, damage either in handling by themselves or the courier.

ignoring it is not an option on ebay, they buyer can hold you to ransom for a discount, and they can initiate a return... I refuse the ransom, but I always approve a return, which I find often buyers don't want to do, which I find odd.. if its bad, why keep it ?

 

The issue is trust

Every time  someone keeps it, after asking for a discount, but instead gets offered a free post return label, that gives them a full refund, including their postage, leaving them £0 out of pocket, I immediately don't trust them anymore.

 

It might be useful to a shop to know theres a faulty product, but not to an average seller clearing out. Its nice to be told, but all it tells me is this buyer could be an issue in the future.

 

A quick check shows ive banned over 50 users bidding, if they only were to buy 1 item in the future and attempt something odd, ive saved myself £300 in postage alone, yet never failed to sell anything I didnt want... its about managing risk.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by adb968008

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

 

unfortunately Ive had exposure to a dusting of rubbish on ebay, in the volume I had to dispose, and can only offer sympathy to those who do it as a business and therefore see this with far more irregularity than my experience. I think good buyers don't realise this, and bad buyers exploit this.

 

But I started with feedback of 0 like everyone else, and only got to my decisions on being hard with buyers through experience.

 

 

 

eBay is an auction site and like other auctions (traditional and online) its buyer beware, in fact certainly with eBay and other online auctions sites you have far more consumer protection than from other traditional style auctions which have" as seen "sale conditions even though many have online bidding facilities

 

With eBay your first line of protection is the photographic evidence, so if it looks questionable steer clear

The second line of protection is the description, if its condition is not as described you are entitled to a full refund including all postage costs

 

Having said this some of my best eBay finds is where the item has poor photos and or miss described/poor description. In this instance you run the risk of buying junk. 

Now if being sold as "spares"  could mean its a pile of tat, or the person cannot gtee its complete etc, again buyer beware !!

 

As for selling, my own opinion is you have to take the rough with the smooth. Peoples perspectives may differ from yours, also some may not be as honest as you, sadly that's life. As I said earlier the model railway community seems to be a very honest group of people, but there is always the odd exception. Thankfully I have been lucky to have dealt with the former group.

[hayfield]

5 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

 

Ah, but thats not what I said either.

 

ignoring it is not an option on ebay, they buyer can hold you to ransom for a discount, and they can initiate a return... I refuse the ransom, but I always approve a return, which I find often buyers don't want to do, which I find odd.. if its bad, why keep it ?

 

The issue is trust

Every time  someone keeps it, after asking for a discount, but instead gets offered a free post return label, that gives them a full refund, including their postage, leaving them £0 out of pocket, I immediately don't trust them anymore.

 

It might be useful to a shop to know theres a faulty product, but not to an average seller clearing out. Its nice to be told, but all it tells me is this buyer could be an issue in the future.

 

 

 

I must be very lucky, as I said 3 items not arrive, Royal Mail sorted that one out. One item slightly damaged due perhaps my packing, but buyer was happy to resolve it (as I have done several times when the odd part had come adrift)

 

Now if an item arrives damaged its not the buyers fault, either if the item was packed up to the Royal Mails specification where they will cover the claim, or simply the item was damaged due to insufficient packing, this is clearly down to the seller. A few times I have returned an item, also where its a rare or hard to get item I have made a judgement on what the damaged item is now worth. The one thing each of these items had in common was the packing, which in my opinion would not have passed the Royal Mails packing requirements. This is not holding a buyer to ransom. I had won the auction and paid the postage the seller required, it is the sellers responsibility to ensure the item arrives safely

 

My biggest surprise is how many items do actually arrive safely, down to inadequate or poor packing, rather than the buyers having an attitude, its usually sellers who cannot pack !!! 

[Andymsa]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Ok i re-read it, and yes it is a sore point, but to answer your question...

Yes I would.

 

i’m not a shop, I don't rely on this as income, its about minimising loss by selling it myself. I therefore don't rely on “new business” or needing to keep a customer happy for the future. Its a transaction no different to selling old furniture instead of throwing it away.

 

This time you spot an issue, next time your looking twice as hard and in the future may return it or seek discount, rightfully or wrongly. I know on my side I apply a high enough standard, often to my detriment before I list as honestly as I can. You may live in a place where the only way to deliver is to throw a package off a cliff, or open parcels with an axe, I dont know.

 

So I would block you and sell to someone else, harsh but its my money at risk and I've already lost enough of it buying new before shops discount it heavily and theres thousands of other buyers out there, and even if I've banned everyone on ebay, theres always Rails or Hattons.

 

 

So I must be a seller with attitude ?  (My feedback > 2500, 100% +  and try my best to keep it that way, with a complaints policy that is “block them first” then sort it out ? I recognise If I went into “for profit” and sought to do this as an income I would need to soften my stance, but whilst my average loss is c25% and my need to sell is to make space it will be on my terms.

 

37 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

 

Ah, but thats not what I said either.

 

 

But that's exactly what you said I would be banned with the situations I gave, these were not examples they actually happened. The stolen item was not my fault but it's clear you would treat it as such by your flippant comments on where I live or how I open parcels. An item that is sent by what ever means is the sellers responsibility so if issues arise from carriage it is not the buyers fault as the contract is between the seller and delivery service. where I repaired the item I did not ask for discount, I just informed the seller what the issue was for there own reference. Does this make me a bad buyer, no. like you my feedback is 100%. It would be interesting to know if you post these terms that you block complaints of any description in your listings which would certainly give transparency to a sale. If I saw these type of terms I would certainly trot on by.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Andymsa

[hayfield]

I rarely look or take notice of the fact that the seller has a 100% rating, as it makes no difference to the protection offered, The star rating is much more informative, on everything but postage costs I have 5 stars and 4.9 stars for postal charges. Quite happy with this as I explain the charge is for post and packing, everything I send is by Royal Mail, first class/recorded/special delivery (depending on the start price) . As the postage price is declared up front and is part of the auction contract. If you don't like it then don't buy. What I charge is quite middle of the road gauged by what I pay others for items I buy, in reality I have learnt not to worry about what a seller charges as I work out my maximum bid and deduct the postage charge. Some potential buyers are put off items with excessive postage, all that does is reduce the competition, which may result in me getting it cheaper

 

I think it is hard to post either neutral or negative feedback, so 100% feedback should be achievable.