Buyers with attitude!

[Markwj]

Not sure who some ebay buyers think they are received this email message about one of my items yesterday. I realise the prosepective buyer may be a member here but I really object to the terminology used- I admitted to the bodyside scratch it's very clear on the pictures and it's in the description and to be fair i missed the handrail- how do I justify the postage charge well Heljan models are heavy. Have been selling models on eBay for some time and have lost out on postage charges a few times but I would never knowingly rip someone off. After an email exchange where I promised to refund if postage was excessive guess what -didn't bid- time waster! All for a £50 Heljan 47.

 

 

New message from: 

Apart from your description of this item admitting body side scratch, there is also one cab grab hand rail broken off at this location. Also Royal Mail 1st class charge increased today is only £5.50 for a small package up to 2 kilos gross weight including packaging [which this model qualifies for adequately packaged]. Therefore how do you justify charging £8.50 for postage?

Reply

 

 

[hayfield]

Probably never wanted to buy it anyway.

 

Postage is a bit of a touchy subject, As a seller I always add about £1 to the Royal Mail's prices calling it a P&P charge and quote the service I am sending it, if by any chance it goes into the next insurance category, I am happy to absorb the costs as I got more than I expected for it. As for condition, I take photos which clearly show the condition and invite the prospective buyers to ask questions on its condition etc

 

As a buyer I assess my maximum bid including postage and adjust the bid accordingly, when you bid you accept the terms offered in the deal

 

I just bought something where the condition was not in my opinion quite as good as the listing suggested (rather than stated), as it happens I was still happy with the main item I wanted within the lot (I am re-selling the items I do not require), I gave honest(positive) feedback and gave a 4 not a 5 for description

 

I am always surprised mostly on how positive buyers are when selling on eBay and I tend to reciprocate, as I rarely down mark items as I take the view "buyer beware" its my responsibility to check the condition both in the photos and description

[Markwj]

Quite agree John and I honestly just missed the handrail.

 

Had another buyer a while ago was listing a damaged model explained all the faults and I had a message explaining how much it would cost them to buy the parts to repair so I should drop my price.

 

I don't care if they buy it to throw against a wall to be honest anyway someone paid the asking price and I got nice feedback!

 

[Pete the Elaner]

E-communications often cause friction.

 

I know of couple of extreme examples in the Elan community.

One buyer (who is now a close friend of mine) lives in W Yorkshire & went to see a car in Kent which was advertised as being a very tidy example. W Yorks to Kent is about an 8 hour round trip. He got there to find a complete wreck. When my fiend turned his nose up, the seller complained about his time being wasted. About 15 minutes for him to get the car out of the garage for the buyer to take a look at. The buyer had just driven for 4 hours & was facing the same return journey!

 

Another one (this time a well known & respected dealer) put a car up for sale. He stated quite clearly that the photos did not do it justice: he could not get the photos to show up all the cosmetic faults; lacquer peel etc. but he described it as cosmetically scruffy & anyone expecting something which looked neat & tidy would be disappointed.

I was surprised by the next bit...a post from someone who went to see it, moaning about the cosmetic faults & how he expected a good example but got there to see one which had scruffy paintwork. He went on to describe it exactly the way the dealer described it in the first place. 

[Phil Bullock]

P&P also has to include any cost of packing materials... we can all recycle some bubble wrap and polystryrene chips but not all....

 

Phil

 

 

[Bucoops]

And ebay now take a chunk of it too!

[polybear]

1 hour ago, Markwj said:

 

Had another buyer a while ago was listing a damaged model explained all the faults and I had a message explaining how much it would cost them to buy the parts to repair so I should drop my price.

 

 

With people like this I wouldn't even bother to reply - they're just chancers looking for a cheap deal.

[Pete the Elaner]

As buyers, we are spoiled by many sellers who absorb postage costs. So when people charge this back to sellers, they seem to get annoyed about it.

[hayfield]

38 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

P&P also has to include any cost of packing materials... we can all recycle some bubble wrap and polystryrene chips but not all....

 

Phil

 

 

 

I try and recycle packing, but there are still other costs involved other than postage, some have miles to travel to post offices etc

 

1 minute ago, Pete the Elaner said:

As buyers, we are spoiled by many sellers who absorb postage costs. So when people charge this back to sellers, they seem to get annoyed about it.

 

Even if postage is shown as free, the price has been absorbed into the starting price, as I said work out the maximum value its worth to you then deduct postage, that's your maximum bid

 

As for the items condition, unless marked either new, mint etc, go by the description, if in doubt ask. On the other hand if someone clearly misrepresents an item then they should be bought to task

[hayfield]

As an addendum to my reply regarding postage charges, whilst what I said about P&P costs influencing my maximum bid, I do though expect the service I received to be commensurate to what I have paid,

 

For example for a 4 mm scale loco, free and lower amounts I expect to wait a bit, especially when economy postage is offered.

Once the postage for a loco passes £5 I do expect a fast delivery, most certainly when it reaches towards £10 then Special delivery should be the order of the day

 

The exception being when the seller clearly states they only post on certain days, or there may be a slight delay in posting due to the distance from the post office.

 

I now tend to explain what service I offer, state what size of packet and service being used ( small packet sent 1st class recorded). This way potential buyers can make an informed decision of when it should arrive, also I send a quick message stating the item has been posted and confirm again the service.

 

Taking these steps should reduce any forms of dispute from buyers with attitude, or back up your side if it escalates into a dispute.

[Metr0Land]

When I used to sell, I never added anything above the Post Office/Courier charge for packing, travel to PO etc - yet still some scrotes marked the P&P as 4/5 rather than 5/5.  Where possible I decided to offer free P&P.  My gut reaction was I got higher bids because of this (though not a lot as Paul Daniels used to say) but at least it meant the buyers couldn't score the P&P element.

[njee20]

^^ same

 

Used to charge exactly what the postage would be - it's not hard to work out, basically everything in N gauge is a small parcel and under 2kg, so it's always £3.95 (now £4), but would still get less than 5/5.

 

Now just do free postage unless I'm listing something on an auction at 99p and fear it may actually sell for less than the postage cost!

 

Basically, people are idiots.

[njee20]

As a seller I take the risk on items below about £200 and just use 2nd class signed for. As a buyer I object to paying £7 postage for Special Delivery on a £60 loco, and won't buy it. I get that technically it's the best way to insure it, but still...

 

At the other end of the spectrum it annoys me when you're looking at high value items and they still add postage on. If I'm looking to buy something for £500 I don't expect to have another £10 added on - IMO the seller should absorb that, and if I could be bothered I'd personally mark that down as I think it's tight.

 

What actually happens is I leave feedback in bulk about 6 months later and just give 5 stars because I can't be bothered to check each transaction!

Edited March 27, 2019 by njee20

[hayfield]

22 hours ago, njee20 said:

As a seller I take the risk on items below about £200 and just use 2nd class signed for. As a buyer I object to paying £7 postage for Special Delivery on a £60 loco, and won't buy it. I get that technically it's the best way to insure it, but still...

 

At the other end of the spectrum it annoys me when you're looking at high value items and they still add postage on. If I'm looking to buy something for £500 I don't expect to have another £10 added on - IMO the seller should absorb that, and if I could be bothered I'd personally mark that down as I think it's tight.

 

What actually happens is I leave feedback in bulk about 6 months later and just give 5 stars because I can't be bothered to check each transaction!

 

 

Does it matter what someone charges for postage? Most of us decide what an item is worth to us and set a maximum bid,

 

Lets say we value an item at £65 max

 

If someone is offering free postage,  your maximum bid will be £65, £5 P&P then £60 is your maximum bit etc

 

Now if something is worth to me £65 and I want it, the seller is charging £10 postage but there are no bids at £30 are you saying you would not put in a cheeky bid and get it for £30 plus £10 postage.

 

As for free postage (other than buy it now), postage is never free, it has to be paid for, I have just bought two pairs of Slaters bogie wheels, from most retailers they are £16 each (most retailers charge P&P) The retailer was offering them at £22 with free postage, as it happens they accepted an offer of £20 which included postage. The seller had to buy a padded envelope and pay for postage, they just took a hit on moving on stock they wanted to move on. In someways I accept that if you are buying from a retailer some do offer free postage over certain amounts, which encourages bulk buying

[njee20]

It's a psychological thing. I'd far rather pay £70 with free postage than £60 and £10 postage, which is daft, as the former is more transparent. Not suggesting anything to the contrary.

I've never said free postage is literally that, merely that I (and other sellers) include the cost of it in the selling price. I personally prefer this. Thanks for the really basic economics lesson though, I never realised that £65 with free postage was the same as £60 and £5 postage!

 

Low value (or underpriced) auctions are a bit different anyway, yes I would put in a bid on an item I deemed underpriced even if it had exorbitant postage charges.

[hayfield]

Njee

 

Never meant to be rude etc, but one way of getting your own back is to buy the item in question cheaply and if expensive postage is putting off bidders all the better for the buyer,

 

My psychological ego is buying something well below my perceived value and if the seller is charging high postage rates he is potentially putting off my competition . I rather pay £65 (or less) than £70, if I get it cheaper, even better. The one thing about higher postal charges, I expect top quality service, and mark accordingly (unless postage delays are stated/explained). But then who looks at feedback when bidding, if things go wrong you have both eBay and PayPal to fall back on, plus on the whole railway modellers do seem to be a decent lot

 

Still its good not everyone is the same, makes life's more interesting, have a good day 

[njee20]

16 minutes ago, hayfield said:

My psychological ego is buying something well below my perceived value and if the seller is charging high postage rates he is potentially putting off my competition . I rather pay £65 (or less) than £70, if I get it cheaper, even better. The one thing about higher postal charges, I expect top quality service, and mark accordingly (unless postage delays are stated/explained). But then who looks at feedback when bidding, if things go wrong you have both eBay and PayPal to fall back on, plus on the whole railway modellers do seem to be a decent lot

Don't worry, my tongue was firmly in my cheek. Auctions are a bit different, particularly those that are 99p starting price or whatever where a potential bargain may be found. I'm thinking more about Buy Now listings where you see an item for £60 plus £10 postage. I reckon if you tested it that you'd get more people buying at £70 and free postage, I know if I'm looking a listing where there are identical items I'll buy the one with cheaper postage. I'm unsure of why that is though frankly, like I say, purely psychological!

I'm also a member of various railway classified pages on Facebook, and that annoys me that you get listings of loads of items with prices and a footer saying "please note postage is £10, and I'll only use Special Delivery because of the value". Again, I understand that technically if it's over £20 it's the best service to use, I just don't really want to pay for it! Very few retailers use it as a default after all, so clearly I'm not alone!

[jonny777]

1 hour ago, njee20 said:

It's a psychological thing. I'd far rather pay £70 with free postage than £60 and £10 postage, which is daft, as the former is more transparent. Not suggesting anything to the contrary.

I've never said free postage is literally that, merely that I (and other sellers) include the cost of it in the selling price. I personally prefer this. Thanks for the really basic economics lesson though, I never realised that £65 with free postage was the same as £60 and £5 postage!

 

Low value (or underpriced) auctions are a bit different anyway, yes I would put in a bid on an item I deemed underpriced even if it had exorbitant postage charges.

 

I'm the same, but I don't know why this is. Probably because I'm lazy and if the seller prices all the items as 'free postage' (even at a higher price which includes the P&P) I can buy multiple items without having the bother of messaging them for a revised postage cost, if available.  It is rather strange how small things can have a bigger mental effect than they ought to. 

[hayfield]

13 minutes ago, njee20 said:

Don't worry, my tongue was firmly in my cheek. Auctions are a bit different, particularly those that are 99p starting price or whatever where a potential bargain may be found. I'm thinking more about Buy Now listings where you see an item for £60 plus £10 postage. I reckon if you tested it that you'd get more people buying at £70 and free postage, I know if I'm looking a listing where there are identical items I'll buy the one with cheaper postage. I'm unsure of why that is though frankly, like I say, purely psychological!

I'm also a member of various railway classified pages on Facebook, and that annoys me that you get listings of loads of items with prices and a footer saying "please note postage is £10, and I'll only use Special Delivery because of the value". Again, I understand that technically if it's over £20 it's the best service to use, I just don't really want to pay for it! Very few retailers use it as a default after all, so clearly I'm not alone!

 

 

I agree with you about buy it now, if its from a dealer. However as I said earlier I paid £10 postage on an 0 gauge loco in an auction bid, I expected Special delivery due to the price of the loco. came recorded but still the next day, as you say look at what being sent and the price. I one an item at 99p and the seller underestimated the postage, I felt duty bound to make good the sellers losses and sent additional monies to the seller to cover the loss, despite not being asked for it. I still go what I wanted cheaply

[hayfield]

18 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

 

I'm the same, but I don't know why this is. Probably because I'm lazy and if the seller prices all the items as 'free postage' (even at a higher price which includes the P&P) I can buy multiple items without having the bother of messaging them for a revised postage cost, if available.  It is rather strange how small things can have a bigger mental effect than they ought to. 

 

 

Good point about combined postage, most sellers offer it anyway and there is a semi automated request on eBay anyway

[Markwj]

I do like the idea of adding the postage cost to the starting bid then doing free postage may give it a go- thanks.

[sidmouth]

having recently sold a lot of triang items I was given you would be amazed how creative I as with Cereal boxes and parcel tape to save packaging costs . Anything I buy I tend to keep the packaging (bubble wrap and good boxes for future reuse) 

 

As such all I charge is second class signed for postage 

 

I had one item sold recently and seller has refused to pay . Its not high value although there is a principle to me . Ebay case opened (not surprisingly no response) 

[Sir TophamHatt]

On 27 March 2019 at 11:34, njee20 said:

As a seller I take the risk on items below about £200 and just use 2nd class signed for. As a buyer I object to paying £7 postage for Special Delivery on a £60 loco, and won't buy it. I get that technically it's the best way to insure it, but still...

 

This is where sellers should be hot too.

 

Add a couple of postage options - next day, 2nd recorded, Hermes...

 

I select whatever ebay will allow me to (I don't get their selling thing anymore) and always post through Parcel 2 Go.  It's cheaper than Royal Mail / Hermes and a drop off shop is at the end of my road.

I still state 2-days for me to post though as sometimes it takes me that time to package it up / print off the label (don't have a printer at home) and send.

[hayfield]

Trouble is that eBay requires sellers to be responsible to get the item delivered and if they are not delivered then as a seller I am duty bound to reimburse the buyer, sadly the Royal Mail over the years has upped the price of compensation over £50. I don't mind taking the chance up to £60 or if the item I am selling has gone way past my estimate. However if I am selling something over £60 I will charge £8 and send via Special Delivery

 

Over the past 17 years I have had 3 items not arrive, each time I have refunded the money and claimed from the Royal Mail, I have also received 4 or 5 items that have got damaged and a couple of items not arrive, those which did not arrive the sellers provided proof of postage and I had my refund, the damaged items whilst caused by the Royal Mail were really down to poor packing, a couple were an easy repair, so no issues. The others I had refunds

 

As a buyer I don't mind what the postage rates are. I work out the maximum I am willing to spend, then deduct the cost of postage, that is my maximum bid. If someone values it more then so be it. I have found that providing I have explained the cost of postage on the listing, then packaged it well I have had no issues.

[Andy Hayter]

As someone who buys quite a lot of books and magazines via the internet (not just Ebay) I am acutely aware of the costs of shipping and to boot most of my purchases are international rather than domestic.  But it is how it is.  I have no complaints when a seller adds a bit on for the other things such as packaging and cost to get to a post office.

 

What does annoy however is eBay's international shipping program.  I understand that this offers the seller protection against non-delivery so I do understand why many sellers favour this route; however it is expensive for the buyer (and therefore reduces the maximum bid I will put in, so perhaps reducing the profit to the seller)  being usually at least double the standard postal route's cost; it is excruciatingly slow (UK to France takes 3 days by normal post, and I even got a soldering station delivered from Manchester in 47 hours from placing an order) but Pitney Bowes will never deliver within a week and a fortnight is more often the norm.  The final delivery is made by La Poste (French post office) regardless of whether standard postal systems are used or eBay's system.  Finally I have had a few occasions where items have not been delivered.  These have always and without exception been via eBay's program.  On raising this with the seller, the result has always been the same.  Order cancelled (no opportunity to leave feedback, no explanation) although repayment is instant.  I strongly suspect the instructions from Ebay are to take this route so the faults in their system are not highlighted.

 

I do however have a problem  when filling out feedback.  Do I criticise the seller for his high postage, when I know the "fault" lies with Ebay/Pitney Bowles?  Do I criticise the seller when an item does not arrive within the estimated delivery time?  I try to be fair and when this does occur I try and make this clear in the 80 character feedback, but I suspect many people just look at the star/feedback rating and not the reasons for the less than perfect feedback.