All-new Heljan 47 in 00 gauge

[younGGuns7]

1 hour ago, YT-1300 said:

Their 35 is still one of the best models out there in 4mm scale.

 

 

Agreed but needs an update now and has been noted there are some errors 

[andyman7]

11 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

I think if I got to market first but my releases were still being discounted, I'd be worrying.

 

The counter argument for some time has been that since Heljan's stuff sells well, the criticism is (perhaps) irrelevant. With more competition around focusing on detail and accurancy, that might not hold true forever.

 

 

 

They sold through the entire first batch and the second batch have now passed the period where discounting is limited so a few places have them at around 25% off - hardly a fire sale. Looks-wise the Heljan 25 is great - a convincing leap ahead of anything previous, and it made it to market years ahead of revised Bachmann and SLW. So as far as I can see it's been well worth doing, and at £150 it's going to remain a contender.

 

7 hours ago, 97406 said:

 

The 25 just gets away from it, and is light years ahead of the original Bachmann 25 which doesn’t look much like a 25, cab-wise at least. The main faults with the cab on the Heljan is the 2 central windscreen pillars are a little too vertical, and the gutters are a tad close to the tops of the windscreens, but this looks to have been disguised on the second batch by the paint job. They do fulfil my ‘need’ for some Rattage and will be kept on when the SLW and new Bachmann ones arrive. They have both had sound fitted too, which is nice!

 

First and second series examples below.

 

I'm certainly planning to keep the Heljan ones alongside my awaited SLW and Bachmann purchases. As far as the original Bachmann version goes, I did obtain this 25/0 that had been made out of the first release Bachmann 24, and refinished it in BR Blue as one of the few to gain the livery whilst retaining full skirts and original exhaust - the beauty of this being that the skirt hides that hideous false underframe 

Edited April 13 by andyman7

[97406]

14 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

 

They sold through the entire first batch and the second batch have now passed the period where discounting is limited so a few places have them at around 25% off - hardly a fire sale. Looks-wise the Heljan 25 is great - a convincing leap ahead of anything previous, and it made it to market years ahead of revised Bachmann and SLW. So as far as I can see it's been well worth doing, and at £150 it's going to remain a contender.

 

I'm certainly planning to keep the Heljan ones alongside my awaited SLW and Bachmann purchases. As far as the original Bachmann version goes, I did obtain this 25/0 that had been made out of the first release Bachmann 24, and refinished it in BR Blue as one of the few to gain the livery whilst retaining full skirts and original exhaust - the beauty of this being that the skirt hides that hideous false underframe 

 

Mine ended up with Hornby cabs. Anyhow I think we should probably stop making this thread veer off too far from the 47 😁 I shall claim the naughty step for making it do so in the first place! 

[97406]

4 hours ago, rob D2 said:

 

 

If I was them I’d ditch the 00 and stick to 0 , as it seems they can get away with potato shaped locos there as they are “ the only game in town “

 

The Class 28 is being rereleased and that actually does look like a potato in real life! Gotta love the ‘Object’.

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, 97406 said:

 

The Class 28 is being rereleased and that actually does look like a potato in real life! Gotta love the ‘Object’.

 

Potatoes shaped like a Metrovick would be dead easy to peel and slice into chips!

 

CJI.

[rob D2]

3 hours ago, 97406 said:

 

The Class 28 is being rereleased and that actually does look like a potato in real life! Gotta love the ‘Object’.

In which case it’ll be modelled inch perfect to look like a 47 ;)

[Halvarras]

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Potatoes shaped like a Metrovick would be dead easy to peel and slice into chips!

 

CJI.

 

Slicing to make sandwiches would be closer to one of its nicknames........!

[Covkid]

18 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

Indeed, it is that level of honesty in reviews that is needed. I have bought models before that had glowing reviews to spot errors instantly when unboxing them. That used to be a bit annoying, but with the cost of models / state of economy today, and with spend being more targeted, it now goes beyond that. 
 

I too wonder about the Heljan business model.  Basic errors are let “slip through” sometimes to be corrected on later models, sometimes not. Often these have been pointed out. Why so?

 

As I have said numerous times, Heljan can make some crackers and nearly always have great mechanical performance, they should be knocking others out of the park.
 

Where Heljan choose to go up against other manufacturers, they must at least get it right, aiming to be as good and able to exist alongside the competition, if not beating it. 
Roy

 

Interesting to watch "Dean Park's" review of the Heljan 47 based on two models of D1960 (weathered and pristine) sent to him by TMC.I always find Dave's reviews particularly honest and fair, and placing the Heljan examples next to the newly tooled Bachmann 47, oh dear. I am afraid Heljan have taken all the very subtle curves of the class 47 cab away and given a very squared shape where IMHO the cab windows are not where they should be, making the bodyshell too tall. The other problem for me is the lack of taper, which was similar to the lack of taper on the DP2 cabs from Heljan.

 

I have to admit, I may have to cancel my order for the class 104 and "kitbash" the Hornby BRCW Calder Valley class 110, given the recent spate of Heljan shape and design issues.

  

[Albie the plumber]

14 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

the PWM was badly designed and assembled. 

Indeed it was Roy , but we both plumped for one when the price came down to what we deemed to be  acceptable .

Some of the errors highlighted with Heljans 47 may well be 'overlooked' when the price comes down as it inevitably will .

[Albie the plumber]

8 hours ago, YT-1300 said:

I never understood why people sing the praises  of the HJ 7mm 37, it's pretty poor between the cab doors, but as you say its the only rtr 37 available. 

 

Overall I think Heljan are really good, the 4mm 26 and 27 are brilliant, just needing the suspension modules moved inboard, the original 47 is really good too, despite being a bit stout.  Their 35 is still one of the best models out there in 4mm scale.

 

Its a shame they seem to be making so many basic mistakes these days

 

8 hours ago, YT-1300 said:

Its a shame they seem to be making so many basic mistakes these days

What are the odds that they one day make an 'improved ' version in a couple of years as they did with the '33 ? 

[SRman]

5 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

Slicing to make sandwiches would be closer to one of its nicknames........!

 

Wonderloaf?

 

[SRman]

19 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

I think all the time people argue that poor models are ok the drive to do better is diminished.

 

The 45, people argued that the flat sides were ok, they are not. The 25’s cab shape and doors are incorrect. The 18100 has beading missing, the PWM was badly designed and assembled. 
 

All this, but you still get some saying there is nothing wrong. Or do some modelling. I am not against doing modelling, but at today’s prices the base model should be correct. 
 

Roy

 

 

I'm not entirely agreeing with you, but also partially agreeing.

I still have several of the original Bachmann class 24s and 25s. The cab shapes have long been a source of dissatisfaction, of course, and they were criticised for that. It took a long time and some competition before Bachmann launched the current models. On the plus side, the mechanisms were streets ahead of the old Hornby model with its ringfield motored model, and the running qualities are still well up to current standards. Later, lights were added but no visible improvements were made to the shape. There was a minor improvement to the relief on the side hatches. Also on the plus side, several of the Bachmann models were bought with sound at bargain prices - pretty well a sound decoder and speaker with a £20 locomotive thrown in.

Heljan's model is an improvement on Bachmann's 25, but I don't find the cab front convincing enough to buy one at present day prices, I'll stick with the old Bachmann ones for a bit longer. SLW really shook thinks up ... at a substantial price, but well worth it for the vast improvement in accuracy and quality, plus a new standard in sound reproduction. I bought two of the class 24/0 locos with sound. However, I can't see me buying the SLW 25s, beautiful as they are, unless I can sell most of my Bachmann class 25s to fund one or to SLW versions.

For the time being, for all their visual faults, I am prepared to accept them because they are still very decent runners. It's the art of compromise, and everyone has their own variations on how much compromise they will accept.

 

Bringing this back to the class 47, I still have a couple of the original tubby Duff Heljan 47s and also the 57s. Again, the running qualities are superb, and I don't mind the appearance as taken from viewing distance on my layout. They don't sit so well against the earlier Bachmann class 47s, which have their own faults. I'm not entirely convinced by the current Heljan frontal appearance on the new 47s. It is so typical of Heljan: they are very hit and miss with their models, with some like the Hymek being very acceptable even now, yet others missing the mark to varying degrees, some quite badly, others very nearly right.

I am not buying a new Heljan 47 or 57, much as I like the superb looking finish on the NSE 47. 

Edited April 14 by SRman
Additional text put in

[Roy Langridge]

4 hours ago, Albie the plumber said:

Indeed it was Roy , but we both plumped for one when the price came down to what we deemed to be  acceptable .

Some of the errors highlighted with Heljans 47 may well be 'overlooked' when the price comes down as it inevitably will .

Indeed we did as it was a model I really wanted, but as you say, that was only when they reached a price point where I was happy to do work needed.
 

As I and others have said, if they are are going to command the highest prices, they need to do better. 
 

Roy

Edited April 14 by Roy Langridge

[Roy Langridge]

5 hours ago, Covkid said:

I have to admit, I may have to cancel my order for the class 104 and "kitbash" the Hornby BRCW Calder Valley class 110, given the recent spate of Heljan shape and design issues.

  

The 104 is looking like it may be one of Heljan’s crackers. I am looking forward to it, but my don’t pre-order Heljan rule still applies. 
 

Roy

[YT-1300]

15 hours ago, younGGuns7 said:

Agreed but needs an update now and has been noted there are some errors 

Apart from maybe some sharper tooling, what else is needed to be updated?

[YT-1300]

8 hours ago, Albie the plumber said:

 

What are the odds that they one day make an 'improved ' version in a couple of years as they did with the '33 ? 

It would need a complete new shell tooled, from what I notice the following parts look 'wrong' to me...

 

Bodysides too deep

Engine room windows too low

Cab windows too large and too square

Headcode panel too large and out of place

Cab windows, but cant put my finger on what I think jars

The infill for non-cutaway cab sides

The engine access roof panels (2 on model, 4 in reality)

 

With Bachmann's model being much better (in my eyes) I'm not sure HJ would get the return on a re-tooled shell as they would have with the 33 as they were the only player in town with that.

 

I still think Lima got the shape100% right!

 

[ThaneofFife]

On the taper are we talking about the 47 as the thread has wandered.......if its the 47 thensurely its got too much taper ?

The paint application is dire between blue and yellow and the 4 corners  with the slight overhangs near each buffer looks comedic.

[rob D2]

From Dave’s vid for those who haven’t seen it.

he also pointed out there’s no backing to the exhaust so you can see straight in to the PCB.

The TMC weathered version was better as it hid some of the mistakes !

 

[Albie the plumber]

1 hour ago, rob D2 said:

From Dave’s vid for those who haven’t seen it.

he also pointed out there’s no backing to the exhaust so you can see straight in to the PCB.

The TMC weathered version was better as it hid some of the mistakes !

 

The video highlighted the raggedness between the  Blue and Yellow .

He wasn't kidding was he .

[97406]

16 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Potatoes shaped like a Metrovick would be dead easy to peel and slice into chips!

 

CJI.

 

13 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

Slicing to make sandwiches would be closer to one of its nicknames........!

 

7 hours ago, SRman said:

 

Wonderloaf?

 

 

Potato plus bread equals a chip butty!

[EddieK]

10 hours ago, rob D2 said:

From Dave’s vid for those who haven’t seen it.

he also pointed out there’s no backing to the exhaust so you can see straight in to the PCB.

The TMC weathered version was better as it hid some of the mistakes !

 

Apologies if this is old news but the area above the windscreens looks almost 2 dimensional in this image. I have just read the books about Scottish 47s and for every loco described there is a mention of "eyebrows" above the windscreen; depending on where the loco was built there are either two separate ones or one continuous one. This model appears not to have any.

Also, the beading that divides the yellow from the blue roof dome doesn't look as pronounced as on the real thing.

[Hal Nail]

7 hours ago, EddieK said:

the area above the windscreens looks almost 2 dimensional in this image.

It's just that photo. The two eyebrows show in other photos on this thread.

[E100]

I think the primary issue for many of us that don't necessary know a 47 inside and out (or even a few who do but can see past the issues) is that a lot already have a recent Bachmann example. If we then were to go out and buy a Heljan 47 you wouldn't want to put them next to each other or your eye will notice something off, even at a bit of distance, arguably more the roof that anything else due to common perspectives. By itself it looks like a good class 47 from any reasonable distance but put a Bachmann 47 there and by comparison there's something not the same when there should be. People will therefore be somewhat inclined to stick with one example going forward and in many cases that will be the Bachmann example.

 

Compare this situation with class 37's. I'd have much fewer reservations about mixing Bachmann and Accurascale 37's as the difference is really not noticeable IMO at much distance even if I do have a slight preference for the Accurascale rendition (with improved sound and no nose seam, finer chains, light dashboard). Those differences are not deal breakers if the right livery comes up on the right loco in the way that this 47 is for me.

['CHARD]

13 minutes ago, E100 said:

I think the primary issue for many ... ... is that a lot already have a recent Bachmann example.

 

That, simply put, is the nub of it. And by recent, I mean the previous iteration without the tinted windows, whiplash aerial and racing trim.

 

13 minutes ago, E100 said:

People will therefore be somewhat inclined to stick with one example going forward and in many cases that will be the Bachmann example.

 

 

I expect people with significant quantities of pre-2022 Bachmann 47s would be highly unlikely to add, even less swap to, the Danish duff.

[GD]

31 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

 

That, simply put, is the nub of it. And by recent, I mean the previous iteration without the tinted windows, whiplash aerial and racing trim.

 

 

I expect people with significant quantities of pre-2022 Bachmann 47s would be highly unlikely to add, even less swap to, the Danish duff.

I did have intensions of buying 47450, 47555 and 47492, but having seen pictures and reviews have actually gone back to the original Bachmann 47 and recently purchased 47436, 47406 and 47461 so that probably says it all for myself.

Edited April 16 by GD
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