All-new Heljan 47 in 00 gauge

[rob D2]

40 minutes ago, Daddyman said:

I can't believe intelligent people are giving this model airtime and oxygen. It's Heljan; what did you expect? Select "ignore thread" and move on! 

Because intelligent people like to compare stuff and have conversations on their observations ?

[Roy Langridge]

43 minutes ago, Daddyman said:

I can't believe intelligent people are giving this model airtime and oxygen. It's Heljan; what did you expect? Select "ignore thread" and move on! 

But Heljan can, and have, produced some cracking models, and that is my frustration, you never know what you will get. 
 

Class 11 a cracking model, PWM not so…
 

Roy

Edited April 4 by Roy Langridge
Typo

[Halvarras]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

 

side on, theres really not much in it.

 

 

 

Looking at your photo above adb, can I pose a question? - in your judgment is there any excessive vertical slack in the Heljan model's bogie pivots, which causes the body to settle on the bogie frames when upright? Reason I ask is because this problem affected the 'Co' end of my Metro-Vic Class 28 (most recent production D5706) which caused the brake linkages on top of the bogie frames to catch on the pipework on the underside of the chassis (fixed by inserting a very small 1mm-thick washer in the right place - with some difficulty, like having to completely dismantle that end!) New tooling shouldn't have this issue, but the '28's was hardly worn out. 

 

Commencing with the Hymek 20 years ago now some Heljan models have very tight bogie clearances, which may be prototypical but makes them intolerant of any slack in the pivoting arrangement. I don't expect this to affect the '47' but thought it worth asking, just in case.......

[younGGuns7]

I will never profess to be an expert or do I worry whether my opinions count unlike a lot on here, I have just moved D1960 between a Heljan Hymek and a Dapol Western and TBH it looks OK. Whilst to the purist the shape isn’t right but it fits my era so I am content.

[MikeParkin65]

12 hours ago, younGGuns7 said:

I will never profess to be an expert or do I worry whether my opinions count unlike a lot on here, I have just moved D1960 between a Heljan Hymek and a Dapol Western and TBH it looks OK. Whilst to the purist the shape isn’t right but it fits my era so I am content.

Precisely. And dont feel you need to apologize, if you're happy thats all that matters in this hobby. Personally I love my two tone green D1526. Its got an exceptional sound project, decent speakers, silky smooth running straight out of the box and is happily mixing with all sorts (including older and new new Bachmann 47's) on my layout :)

[rob D2]

At the end of the day none of it matters if you like the item !

[Hal Nail]

21 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

At the end of the day none of it matters if you like the item !

 

Presumably there is a sweet spot where enough like it to keep Heljan in business but sufficiently few that they decide to have a 5th crack (3rd time lucky in 7mm?!)

[wombatofludham]

Well, enough people have bought their 45s to make them happy enough to do a second run of them despite the electron microscope examiners declaring it wrong.  I think some forget that for every one on here who finds fault there are probably ten others out there who don't read posts on here or watch YouChoob video reviews but are happy to part with their money.

For me I think the 47 looks good in some liveries but others seem to make it look slightly out, fortunately most of the livery variants I would like are in the good category, and as I will be watching them moving and not double heading with a Bachmann Duff I think I will be able to live with them.  The fact Heljan have covered a lot of very useful livery variants in one release, whereas Bachmann tend to dribble the liveries out over a few years, will be a swing vote for me.

Basically, if you don't like it because you feel it is compromised, don't buy it, but I suspect your boycott won't upset Heljan too much.

PS @61661 Now King Fred has got his legs under his mother's table given the amount of stuff I'm buying from Heljan any chance of a coffee and pastries at the Amalienborg for my contribution to the Danish economy?  Just asking.

[Roy Langridge]

2 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

Well, enough people have bought their 45s to make them happy enough to do a second run of them despite the electron microscope examiners declaring it wrong. 

As you say Mark, it is up to us whether we buy or not, and I for one did not need an electron microscope to know the 45 was not for me, so I am unsure why you see the need for the dig?

 

Enjoy your 47s as, as you say, your opinion is all that matters to you. 

 

Roy

[MidlandRed]

23 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

But Heljan can, and have, produced some cracking models, and that is my frustration, you never know what you will get. 
 

Class 11 a cracking model, PWM not so…
 

Roy

Funnily, I have a PWM and it’s absolutely fine (I saw all the criticism of it) - I’ve yet to leap for a class 11 despite intending to when it was announced - I may still do.

 

7 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

Well, enough people have bought their 45s to make them happy enough to do a second run of them despite the electron microscope examiners declaring it wrong.  I think some forget that for every one on here who finds fault there are probably ten others out there who don't read posts on here or watch YouChoob video reviews but are happy to part with their money.

For me I think the 47 looks good in some liveries but others seem to make it look slightly out, fortunately most of the livery variants I would like are in the good category, and as I will be watching them moving and not double heading with a Bachmann Duff I think I will be able to live with them.  The fact Heljan have covered a lot of very useful livery variants in one release, whereas Bachmann tend to dribble the liveries out over a few years, will be a swing vote for me.

Basically, if you don't like it because you feel it is compromised, don't buy it, but I suspect your boycott won't upset Heljan too much.

PS @61661 Now King Fred has got his legs under his mother's table given the amount of stuff I'm buying from Heljan any chance of a coffee and pastries at the Amalienborg for my contribution to the Danish economy?  Just asking.

Strangely, I now have one of their Peaks as well (I’m not telling you how much I paid but it was absolutely a no brainer) - I did avoid D15 because of the livery comments on here, but more so I saw that @Phil Bullock repainted his!! I got one in economy green and can overlook the very minor issue with the curvature on the top quarter of the cab (which in my view is completely out shadowed by the look and general bulk and overall correctness of the model - it’s a really nice model, looks and runs great - very smooth - I believe they’ve updated the shape for the 44s etc to help/ respond to the electron microscope guys. 

 

I know we’ve come to want absolutely perfect looking models and indeed I have some on order from two sources who get close (one even closer than the other) - as for whose actually runs the best - well that’s another matter but these latest Heljans, along with my experience with the latest Hornbys and Bachmanns suggest these are all very good indeed. 

[younGGuns7]

On 04/04/2024 at 21:09, younGGuns7 said:

I will never profess to be an expert or do I worry whether my opinions count unlike a lot on here, I have just moved D1960 between a Heljan Hymek and a Dapol Western and TBH it looks OK. Whilst to the purist the shape isn’t right but it fits my era so I am content.

A couple of Heljan 47 and a Bachmann 47 for comparison both look ok to me but what do I know 🤷🏻‍♂️🤣

[Albie the plumber]

4 hours ago, younGGuns7 said:

A couple of Heljan 47 and a Bachmann 47 for comparison both look ok to me but what do I know 🤷🏻‍♂️🤣

Accuracy,  like beauty , is all in the eye of the beholder 

[younGGuns7]

17 minutes ago, Albie the plumber said:

Accuracy,  like beauty , is all in the eye of the beholder 

I know I noticed the bit of hard standing sticking up after I had posted 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[Albie the plumber]

2 hours ago, younGGuns7 said:

I know I noticed the bit of hard standing sticking up after I had posted 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

I didn't 😁

[DropTheTap]

On 07/04/2024 at 16:00, Albie the plumber said:

Accuracy,  like beauty , is all in the eye of the beholder 

Nope. That's not the way it works at all.

*Satisfaction with accuracy of reproduction* is in the eye of the beholder...

[jjb1970]

Personally, based on photographs (I haven't seen the Heljan in person) I think the Bachmann model is the better of the two. That is superbly done. However, I really think this latest Heljan version looks to be a pretty good model and on a layout I suspect it'll be excellent. If both models were the same price I'd lean towards Bachmann but be open minded to the Heljan one if it was a livery I wanted, the problem for them is that there are some excellent offers on the Bachmann version. 

[Albie the plumber]

7 hours ago, DropTheTap said:

Nope. That's not the way it works at all.

*Satisfaction with accuracy of reproduction* is in the eye of the beholder...

Or put another way , accuracy is in  the eye of the beholder. 

Same thing to me .

We're discussing semantics now .

Gone off topic .

 

 

Edited April 10 by Albie the plumber

[jjb1970]

In fairness I do think there is a substantive difference.

 

Many aspects of accuracy can be objectively evaluated. For example, dimensions, whether details are present or omitted. 

 

A persons criteria for accepting whether a model is good or bad (which is what I think most means when saying accuracy is a personal thing) is largely subjective and influenced by many things (particularly knowledge of the prototype, if you don't know that a detail is missing or should be missing then it doesn't matter to you).

 

So a model may be demonstrably inaccurate in some ways but also perfectly good for an individual person thinking or buying it (or already owning it).

 

And some things will always be up for debate, such as colour. There will always be arguments over colour because of how memory plays tricks, sensitivity to light etc.

[adb968008]

On 04/04/2024 at 20:23, Halvarras said:

 

Looking at your photo above adb, can I pose a question? - in your judgment is there any excessive vertical slack in the Heljan model's bogie pivots, which causes the body to settle on the bogie frames when upright?
 

 

the bogie is fastened by the same style fastener used in many Heljan locos…

this piece..

(still on a sprue in my above example, gold dust from the good old days of cheap Heljan sprues).

 

 

I went heavy duty today to show the height difference, mounted it on rails…

 

note the sprit level measures..
 

I was going to measure height but my steel 4mm rule seems to have wandered to my little ones school bag..

 

 

 

On 04/04/2024 at 20:23, Halvarras said:

Edited April 10 by adb968008

[Roy Langridge]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

I went heavy duty today to show the height difference, mounted it on rails…

 

note the sprit level measures..
 

I was going to measure height but my steel 4mm rule seems to have wandered to my little ones school bag..

 

Ah, but is your spirit level calibrated ;-)

 

As an apprentice many years ago I was used to the wind-ups such as being sent to the stores for “a long weight”. When I got sent to Test and Calibration to “get the spirit level calibrated” I refused assuming another wind-up. Turned out it was a thing. 
 

Never can see a spirit level without remembering!

 

Roy

[adb968008]

7 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

Ah, but is your spirit level calibrated ;-)

 

As an apprentice many years ago I was used to the wind-ups such as being sent to the stores for “a long weight”. When I got sent to Test and Calibration to “get the spirit level calibrated” I refused assuming another wind-up. Turned out it was a thing. 
 

Never can see a spirit level without remembering!

 

Roy

my desk is level, but my house could always be on an angle…

 

 

I was told if I went for a long stand I might be able to calibrate it better. Failing that a short weight would improve its haulage.

😀
 

being more of a techie, I had to question why I needed to constantly press “start” in order to shut down my computer in the 90’s/00’s.

Edited April 10 by adb968008

[Hal Nail]

9 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

which is what I think most means when saying accuracy is a personal thing

I've always thought it was a polite way of saying some people are staggeringly unobservant! :)

[MikeParkin65]

Interesting review in this months RM where the 47 shares a page with the same manufacturers rereleased 57 with photos from the same angle.  Certainly the 47 sits lower on the bogies than the 57 and I think raising the new model a little would improve its look. Hornby mag meanwhile has commented on the ‘face’ being wrong - an interesting stance from they have their own Ltd ed from the tooling. 

[Halvarras]

9 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

the bogie is fastened by the same style fastener used in many Heljan locos…

this piece..

(still on a sprue in my above example, gold dust from the good old days of cheap Heljan sprues).

 

 

Yes, I appreciate that, it was the fit of the components onto the top and bottom of this I was wondering about - if the holes in those are an excessively loose fit the resulting slack can affect the ride height, as was the case on my Class 28's 'Co' end bogie, which could be moved up and down about 1.5mm.

 

I mourn those good old days too - in 2007 I had an original 47 with Mazak Rot (D1733) and Howes sent me a replacement chassis for the body which I just managed to save from splitting, but the only way I could get the old chassis out was snipping through these 'yokes' to release the bogies and hacksawing the chassis against an inserted piece of brass (to protect the inside of the body) at its weakest points, i.e. where these fit. Brutal but it worked. That left me with a complete set of running gear, except for the chassis block and the 'yokes', which sat in a box until last year when I managed to source a Heljan 47 cast chassis block (many thanks Elaine's Trains!)  and reassemble the thing using these parts from a Class 23 'Baby Deltic' sprue I'd picked up during the intervening years, also from Howes (of course). All I had to do to get these to fit into the 47 casting was shorten the four 'blades' by about 1mm. 

 

I saw the Hornby mag review too and the head-on view is enlightening because you can clearly see the NSE stripes on both left and right cabsides - I don't think this should be possible? Or at least not to that extent? We know why the original had excessively curved cabsides but it's hard to believe that Heljan would apply the same curvature to a new model with a more accurate overall width...... no wonder the cab front looks slightly 'pinched'! But only slightly, after all the buffer centres have to be the correct distance apart which fixes the bufferbeam width, and if this were too short at its outer ends ETH versions with bufferbeam-mounted connections would have a bit of a problem on the driver's corners, so it can't be too far out. 

 

I think NSE 47596 looks fantastic, and I was never a big fan of this garish livery 😃! Although I will admit to preferring this later version. If I had to pick one......

[MikeParkin65]

9 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

Yes, I appreciate that, it was the fit of the components onto the top and bottom of this I was wondering about - if the holes in those are an excessively loose fit the resulting slack can affect the ride height, as was the case on my Class 28's 'Co' end bogie, which could be moved up and down about 1.5mm.

 

 

Just lifted my D1526 body from the track whilst keeping the bogie wheels on the rails to try and see if there is slop - there is but by eye I'd say its less than 1.5mm