'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[NZRedBaron]

So, quick random thought; when is the latest you could plausibly see pre-grouping liveries during the Big Four era? Either on passenger coaches, or on NPCC's?

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, NZRedBaron said:

So, quick random thought; when is the latest you could plausibly see pre-grouping liveries during the Big Four era? Either on passenger coaches, or on NPCC's?

 

There is an infamous photo of the Coronation Scot climbing Camden Bank with a bogie passenger brake still in LNWR livery in the background.

 

But by impression from looking at photos is that main line ex-LNWR stock was generally crimson lake within three years or so. Not so sure about lesser stock on more out-of-the-way duties. 

 

The GWR seems to have repainted much M&SWJR stock and then promptly withdrawn it!

 

With the all-one-colour liveries of the LNER constituents and b/w photography, I think it's very hard to tell unless you can see the lettering clearly.

[NZRedBaron]

17 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

With the all-one-colour liveries of the LNER constituents and b/w photography, I think it's very hard to tell unless you can see the lettering clearly.

Makes sense; one of my long term projects for my collection is an LNER parcels train, which would have a mix of LNER-liveried stock, and a few 'strengtheners' on the back that potentially are still in pre-grouping livery- I was thinking to grab either a GCR or GER full brakes for it, if not one of each.

[Jol Wilkinson]

12 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

There is an infamous photo of the Coronation Scot climbing Camden Bank with a bogie passenger brake still in LNWR livery in the background.

 

But by impression from looking at photos is that main line ex-LNWR stock was generally crimson lake within three years or so. Not so sure about lesser stock on more out-of-the-way duties. 

 

The GWR seems to have repainted much M&SWJR stock and then promptly withdrawn it!

 

With the all-one-colour liveries of the LNER constituents and b/w photography, I think it's very hard to tell unless you can see the lettering clearly.

I think, as Stephen has pointed out,  exceptions can be found. The grouping happened five years after WW1, when the railway companies probably hadn't done a lot of carriage repainting and probably still didn't do a lot before 1923. So the need to refinish coaching stock in the new liveries probably meant that the late 1920's would see most coaches repainted.

 

Old stock could be the exception to this and probably were fairly well down the priority, so could have lasted a bit longer before enjoying the feel of the paintbrush. So the Hattons and Hornby pre-group generic models are probably well suited to a significant suspension of disbelief for many  Big Four modellers.

[TheEngineShed]

On 17/02/2023 at 08:21, Ian Hargrave said:

And the use of Hunt Elite magnetic couplings makes them look even better. I tried my five GNR Genesis  this morning and after a little tweak the “train” works well .

 

Which length of Hunt couplings did you use?

[Ian Hargrave]

1 hour ago, TheEngineShed said:

 

Which length of Hunt couplings did you use?

The standard length. Inadvisable to use anything shorter although these are available. Makes a huge difference to both the operation and appearance. 

[amdaley]

1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said:

The standard length. Inadvisable to use anything shorter although these are available. Makes a huge difference to both the operation and appearance. 

Are you running  the coaches on curves Ian  ?

Tony.

Edited February 18, 2023 by amdaley

[Ian Hargrave]

Yes they are …2nd radius which hasn’t in itself  produced any difficulties thus far.I believe the important thing is to ensure that all three axles on each coach sit squarely on the track so important to take the time to ensure that they do. Taking the time to do this pays dividends and will hopefully prevent subsequent derailing.Using these couplings adds a new and better dimension to the experience of running on your layout but needs initial care in setting up which isn’t difficult.

[jaym481]

On 29/01/2023 at 22:17, jaym481 said:

Has anyone successfully tried fitting a lighted coach with a DCC chip? I just tried an ESU Lokpilot 5 FX and though the decoder was tested fine with a Lokprogrammer the lights flash when powered on. The ESU documentation indicates that this will happen if the current draw is too much for the decoder. I have a service request in to Hatton's about it, but I was wondering if anyone has had success, and if so with what decoder?

 

My suspicion is that it might have something to do with that capacitor, or that there's not enough resistance in the PCB, despite all of those little resistors in there.

Thought I should follow up on this. My Tramfabriek order finally arrived with the Train-o-Matic function decoders. I programmed them with JMRI, setting the brightness as low as I could (which wasn't much- but does take a bit of the edge off of the stock lighting wne in DCC track). They worked fine, so it appears the ESU decoders are a bit sensitive. No contest really, as the Train-o-matic decoders are about half the cost of the ESU ones from my local hobby shop.

[Bucoops]

Agreed, I have 3 of their function decoders now, good price and feature rich.

[Chris116]

My GNR set went into my trunk last week and today I received an email from Hattons to say the BR set are now expected December 2023 which is in line with the "late 23 / early 24" shown on their website.

[James Harrison]

On 17/02/2023 at 22:56, NZRedBaron said:

Makes sense; one of my long term projects for my collection is an LNER parcels train, which would have a mix of LNER-liveried stock, and a few 'strengtheners' on the back that potentially are still in pre-grouping livery- I was thinking to grab either a GCR or GER full brakes for it, if not one of each.

 

Your GCR full brake would be long in the tooth indeed if still sporting the 1897 - 1903 livery in LNER days. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by James Harrison

[Ravenser]

On 17/02/2023 at 22:27, NZRedBaron said:

So, quick random thought; when is the latest you could plausibly see pre-grouping liveries during the Big Four era? Either on passenger coaches, or on NPCC's?

 

The last sighting of a coach in LYR livery was I believe 1942

 

But it seems that the LMS had a policy of not repainting non-corridor LYR stock. Some of which was elderly and much of which was pretty basic.

 

Meanwhile Horwich seems to have spent a lot of time in the 1920s and 1930s turning out large numbers of new LMS non-gangway coaches.

 

Cause and effect? A "scrap and build" policy in effect for LYR non-corridor stock?

[neilkirby]

Hi All,

I thought I would post here a picture of my Genesis coach which I got after seeing a picture in 'southern wagons pictorial'.  In 1927 An urgent need for ballast brakes was satisfied by converting 4 ex-LCDR 4 wheel coaches. Although no quite right  the Genesis coach was fairly close. So after removing the lookouts, and plating over with plasticard. This is the result, I also added my own 3d printed oil lamp tops:

Neil

Edited February 24, 2023 by neilkirby

[gwrrob]

On 24/02/2023 at 12:53, James Harrison said:

 

Your GCR full brake would be long in the tooth indeed if still sporting the 1897 - 1903 livery in LNER days. 

 

Would that also apply to the GNR offering too.

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

Would that also apply to the GNR offering too.

 

James was saying that a GCR livery last applied in 1903 would be highly unlikely to be seen in 1923. As far as I'm aware the GNR carriage livery was pretty consistent for 50 years or more. How many elderly GNR carriages would have been re-lettered LNER within the first two or three years of grouping? Not many, I should think.

[Dunsignalling]

7 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

James was saying that a GCR livery last applied in 1903 would be highly unlikely to be seen in 1923. As far as I'm aware the GNR carriage livery was pretty consistent for 50 years or more. How many elderly GNR carriages would have been re-lettered LNER within the first two or three years of grouping? Not many, I should think.

What happened post-1948 probably gives a good idea of the process that preceded it post-1923.

 

Only modern front-line stock used on prominent services is likely to have been treated with any urgency. 

 

Older coaches with a reasonable future would generally have been rebranded (and renumbered, if applicable) as and when they required revarnishing. The typical cycle for wooden-bodied stock seems to have been a consistent 2-3 years throughout the steam era.

 

However, anything considered near to the end of its useful service might have been left alone altogether.

 

John 

[Ian Hargrave]

1 minute ago, Dunsignalling said:

What happened post-1948 probably gives a good idea of the process that preceded it post-1923.

 

Only modern front-line stock used on prominent services is likely to have been treated with any urgency. 

 

Older coaches with a reasonable future would generally have been rebranded (and renumbered, if applicable) as and when they required revarnishing. The typical cycle for wooden-bodied stock seems to have been a consistent 2-3 years throughout the steam era.

 

However, anything considered near to the end of its useful service might have been left alone altogether.

 

John 

And revarnished teak could be seen on BR ( E ) into the early 1950’s. Mainly Thompson though…

[Dunsignalling]

1 minute ago, Ian Hargrave said:

And revarnished teak could be seen on BR ( E ) into the early 1950’s. Mainly Thompson though…

Yes, but generally already rebranded as part of that process.

 

On the Southern Region of BR, many older coaches went for scrap during 1956-1958 still carrying SR green paint but most had lost their "Southern" markings and acquired "S" prefixes to their numbers  by 1950/1.

[Bucoops]

43 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

And revarnished teak could be seen on BR ( E ) into the early 1950’s. Mainly Thompson though…

 

Was any Thompson stock actually clad in teak or was it always steel (or plywood?) and scumbled teak effect applied?

[James Harrison]

2 hours ago, gwrrob said:

 

Would that also apply to the GNR offering too.

 

My understanding is that the GNR carriage livery was always teak, but I'd heavily caveat that by saying the GNR isn't my particular pre-grouping railway of interest and that I've not made any great study of GNR rolling stock.  All I can say is that every photograph or painting I've seen of GNR carriages, shows them to have been teak of some description. 

 

To expand on Compound's reply about the likelihood of a 1903 livery surviving to 1923, my comment about the GCR carriage livery was written in the context of my recently having gone through my (fairly comprehensive) library of GCR books to try and pin down a date when the later brown and cream livery was phased out (Dow states that the switch to teak was formalised in November / December 1908 and that it took a few years for the new teak livery to really take hold).  My findings from that exercise are that brown and cream appears in photographs as late as 1910 - but after that I haven't seen anything (even for 6 wheel stock) that could definitely be said to be anything other than teak (there are one or two I came across from 1911 which could be two-tone livery, but could equally well be light playing tricks with mouldings, and - as it usually is - the carriages in question are out of focus and at the rear of the train).  So if my researches to date suggest that the pre-1908 livery had gone by 1910, I don't see how the pre-1903 livery could be hanging around 20 years later. 

[scots region]

They don't hang around do they? Might have managed to sneg one of the GNR 4-wheelers but not a sure thing. 

[stewartingram]

I had an email from Hattons today, stating that their Genisis GNR coaches were available in stock. When I looked, among those available was a set of 4 for £120. Now to me, that would be a luxury price, but knowing the scarcity, and looking at the possibility of a rake to put behind my GNR, I thought "why not"?

So I went back to it, and surprise - sold out.

But.....the set with lights had a number available, for £150. My little brain said YES! I normally despise lighting, especially on old stock like this, and it will be stripped out. So I have a plan.....

The set is now in my trunk (I normally gather 3-4 items before despatch, to help with postage costs. 

Does anyone want to swop an unlit set with my lit set? Or have the lights stripped out of mine?

(Adjustment in price difference as necessary).

[PhilJ W]

I wonder if anything in pre-grouping livery still retained it at nationalisation?

[AMJ]

16 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

Was any Thompson stock actually clad in teak or was it always steel (or plywood?) and scumbled teak effect applied?

Thompsons were steel sheet and probably of low quality based upon how many survive - probably rusted faster than Mk I stock.