Hornby 2020 range "reveal date" = 6th Jan

[TravisM]

I’d just like to throw my modern image hat into the ring.  I’d like to see a DC Rail or GBRf Class 60, but I’d also love to see a grey DC Rail Class 56 but with 56303 still keeping the shelves warm, I can’t that happening.  They could pull off a massive coup and release the Blue and Grey LNER HST which will cost them nothing to do as far as research etc.

 

I’d love to see the 4-VEP back but with all the errors corrected and maybe something else to run with it.  A 4-CIG perhaps?  A Class 175 or 180 would be good though they could surprise us all and pull a Swindon Class 120 out the bag!

 

I can’t really see any of that happening but it would be nice to dream.

[Jammy2305]

Hopefully they will get over their fear of anything pre-1923 and give us a J15 in GER condition as a GER blue Y14 (and not their usual cop out of doing a pre-grouping livery on a pres condition loco!). Surely the range of pre-grouping locos being sold by other manufacturers is enough to convince them that such models would actually sell? 

[scottrains29]

Amost exactly a year ago I suggested Hornby produced a PFA containerised coal wagon and an updated high spec class 37. A year later Accurascale have announced both, and have even had to stop taking pre-orders for the PFA due to such high demand. The two other new models I suggested in the same post (but have not yet  been announced by anyone) were the Plasser & Theurer 07-16/08-16 tampers and a new class 314 and similar PEP type EMUs (313-315, 507/508).

Today the class 314 ran a final farewell tour around Glasgow. I think now would be an ideal time to model this numerous and widespread type. Introduced way back in the 70's the PEP's have been seen in many areas of the UK in a whole range of liveries. The PEP EMUs would be very popular and generate a lot of sales for Hornby.

 

I'd also like to see more TTS sounds for class 156, 153, 101, 56 etc.

 

I think we may see a Virgin mk2f RFB (with lights) to allow modellers to finally complete a rake with the Virgin TSO and BSO Hornby released a few years ago.

 

Lastly,

 

RailMaster LOCO DETECTION.

We have been waiting sooo long for this it is about time it was finally brought to market. It is the missing link in the RailMaster software. Currently, the RailMaster programming functions are useless without loco detection as the trains never seem to stop in the desired location. Loco detection would finally allow modellers to have a fuly automatic layout where they can just sit back and watch.

 

[Neal Ball]

Looking at the comments above re: Manor vs Saint.... my money would go on Hornby introducing the Saint in the 2020 catalogue. 
Given Dapol have yet to release the Priarie and Mogul, I can’t see them adding a Manor at this stage. Maybe Bachmann would announce a Manor in 2020, but I would have thought they would upgrade the 57xx first. Although I can’t see that just yet.

As Hornby have been a couple of months slower than intended in getting the Priarie to market, I can’t see them doing a GWR tank loco in 2020. But that doesn’t stop them introducing a tender loco.... in which case the logical gap is the Saint.

 

The de Glen compounds and the Great Bear fall into the one-off field, so that’s for Heljan!

 

As I’ve said before, carriages will be to complement the range they have already done: 2020 hopefully will be a full brake and restaurant carriage.

[ThaneofFife]

Possibly a couple of Gatwick Express / Railair Link Mk2fs?  Is there a Bachmann GLV?

 

i dont see Hornby getting into the fitted lights thing with its coaches anymore.  and certainly not dcc.

 

as they were so keen to release 87010 again once the new tooled model was announced I wonder if they feel the same pull on LNWR black lined model they announced for the old Limby model or whether that artwork will ever get used again.....and i dont see them touching the class 86 now. sure that ship has sailed.

 

Would a new run of mk3 sleepers sell in inter-city executive livery?  i think these have had some tooling revisions but i dont believe the sleepers have been made in this livery since Lima days with huge D-coupings, pizza cutter wheels and clear glazing.

 

[tomparryharry]

3 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Looking at the comments above re: Manor vs Saint.... my money would go on Hornby introducing the Saint in the 2020 catalogue. 
Given Dapol have yet to release the Priarie and Mogul, I can’t see them adding a Manor at this stage. Maybe Bachmann would announce a Manor in 2020, but I would have thought they would upgrade the 57xx first. Although I can’t see that just yet.

As Hornby have been a couple of months slower than intended in getting the Priarie to market, I can’t see them doing a GWR tank loco in 2020. But that doesn’t stop them introducing a tender loco.... in which case the logical gap is the Saint.

 

The de Glen compounds and the Great Bear fall into the one-off field, so that’s for Heljan!

 

As I’ve said before, carriages will be to complement the range they have already done: 2020 hopefully will be a full brake and restaurant carriage.

Well said Neal, my thoughts as well.

 

[The Stationmaster]

4 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Looking at the comments above re: Manor vs Saint.... my money would go on Hornby introducing the Saint in the 2020 catalogue. 
Given Dapol have yet to release the Priarie and Mogul, I can’t see them adding a Manor at this stage. Maybe Bachmann would announce a Manor in 2020, but I would have thought they would upgrade the 57xx first. Although I can’t see that just yet.

As Hornby have been a couple of months slower than intended in getting the Priarie to market, I can’t see them doing a GWR tank loco in 2020. But that doesn’t stop them introducing a tender loco.... in which case the logical gap is the Saint.

 

The de Glen compounds and the Great Bear fall into the one-off field, so that’s for Heljan!

 

As I’ve said before, carriages will be to complement the range they have already done: 2020 hopefully will be a full brake and restaurant carriage.

I suspect the Hornby battle cry may remain 'all Great Western engines look the same' (as far as the 4-6-0s are concerned) so we are perhaps unlikely to see Hornby dabbling their feet in that area apart from reissues of earlier GWR outline models.  No doubt a lead for them would be sales of the most recent reissue of the 'Grange' plus what the 'Hall' has managed.  And as one of their own outlets in the heart of GWR land sold me a 'Grange' at a well reduced price within the past few months (albeit to make it price competitive with other retail outlets) that might indicate that more GWR 4-6-0s won't necessarily be flavour of the month with their marketeers.  

 

Plus I would have thought they wouldn't be too keen to abstract GWR 'new model' sales from the prairie which will presumably appear in different guises in 2020 (assuming the 2019 releases aren't even later!).  If there is anything GWR from Hornby I think a Collett full brake and restaurant car are the most likely candidates

[Dunsignalling]

5 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I suspect the Hornby battle cry may remain 'all Great Western engines look the same' (as far as the 4-6-0s are concerned) so we are perhaps unlikely to see Hornby dabbling their feet in that area apart from reissues of earlier GWR outline models.  No doubt a lead for them would be sales of the most recent reissue of the 'Grange' plus what the 'Hall' has managed.  And as one of their own outlets in the heart of GWR land sold me a 'Grange' at a well reduced price within the past few months (albeit to make it price competitive with other retail outlets) that might indicate that more GWR 4-6-0s won't necessarily be flavour of the month with their marketeers.  

 

Plus I would have thought they wouldn't be too keen to abstract GWR 'new model' sales from the prairie which will presumably appear in different guises in 2020 (assuming the 2019 releases aren't even later!).  If there is anything GWR from Hornby I think a Collett full brake and restaurant car are the most likely candidates

 

Also, the first of what would hopefully become an eventual trio of re-tooled Siphons would go down a treat.

 

John

 

 

[The Johnster]

18 hours ago, Legend said:

In terms of flexibility and bringing it to market, my money would be on Hornby . If announced on 6th Jan they’ve probably been working on it for at least a year with the intent to bring in q4 2020 or q1 2021 .  Bachmann and Dapol are much less agile 

But Hornby don't have a chassis ready to go, and Dapol do.  The idea that Hornby has a Manor chassis on tap is based on the Grange, but this loco has a larger and wider firebox and a fatter boiler, and it's mech is too big for a Manor to modern standards (even the old Mainline Manor and 43xx had enlarged out of scale fireboxes to accommodate the pancakes) and it's frame too long.  Dap have the 43xx more or less in production and if this model is to scale (can you imagine the outcry if it isn't) any mech that fits inside it will be fine in a Manor.  Hornby's 5101 mech has nice wide tanks to sit inside...

 

14 hours ago, scottrains29 said:

a fuly automatic layout where they can just sit back and watch.

 

My worst nightmare; I need to operate!!!

 

7 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Given Dapol have yet to release the Priarie and Mogul, I can’t see them adding a Manor at this stage. Maybe Bachmann would announce a Manor in 2020, but I would have thought they would upgrade the 57xx first. Although I can’t see that just yet

See above for MHO.  The 57xx is fine and doesn't need an upgrade (what would you improve on it?*), though there has been some discussion of a coreless motor in the 94xx which would presumably be available for the other panniers and Jinty/1F/1P.  Anything blue box does will take as long as it takes to materialise, and they probably have other fish to fry in the meantime.

 

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

Plus I would have thought they wouldn't be too keen to abstract GWR 'new model' sales from the prairie which will presumably appear in different guises in 2020 (assuming the 2019 releases aren't even later!).  If there is anything GWR from Hornby I think a Collett full brake and restaurant car are the most likely candidates

Hope you're right about the Collet full brake, Mike, and if they do a refurbished restaurant car I might be interested as a shelf display item.

 

I reckon a Saint is the most likely next GW loco from H, much as I want a refurbed 2721, but I wouldn't like to say when.  It's 'their' loco according to the way SK defines things and a proven performer for them.  But H have done a good bit of GW recently and don't owe us anything.

 

 

*I'd go for empty bunker and operating or at least posable roof ventilator and sliding shutters in the cab.  And a choice of top feed or not, please...

Edited December 19, 2019 by The Johnster
Out of scale firboxes.

[Neal Ball]

40 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

......The 57xx is fine and doesn't need an upgrade (what would you improve on it?*).........

 

*I'd go for empty bunker and operating or at least posable roof ventilator and sliding shutters in the cab.  And a choice of top feed or not, please...

I beg to differ (To which Bachmann agreed with me a few years back). We need a Pannier without TopFeed for starters! A bit more space inside for a meaty decoder would be a “nice to have”.

 

I spoke to Bachmann at the members day at the Watercress and before that at the Bluebell, the latter has to be 3 or 4 years ago. At the time Bachmann had announced a sound fitted Pannier, but found the moulds shot to pieces - they are that old. When I asked on progress, I was told the idea had been dropped. With this information to hand, at the Watercress event, I asked when we would get a new  Pannier , to which the answer was “hopefully sometime as it’s considered a Bachmann loco, adding they didn’t want Hornby to take it from them).

 

Bachmann are producing wartime and LT Panniers soon, so not sure about the moulds.

 

Back on topic - with the Hornby Priarie on the horizon I doubt we will get a GWR tank loco just yet.

[The Johnster]

Topfeeds are easier to retrofit than remove, and Baccy’s insistence on tooling them in is lamentable. 

 

Moulds should last for years if they are regularly cleaned and looked after, look at the Dapol  Kitmaster construction kits some of which go back to the original Rosebud Kitmaster range 60 years ago and are still producing acceptable results.  I suspect the rep at the Bluebell event may not have been being absolutely correct; Baccy are still turning out 57xx and 8750. 

 

It would be nice, if a wartime pannier is being contemplated, to go for a Caerphilly Works loco with their 1942-5 ‘grotesque’ lettering; 56xx and H’s 42xx are candidates for this as well, some in unlined green.  Caerphilly also distinguished itself with red reversing rods and, in the 50s, painted-on numberplates. 

[Matt]

6 hours ago, ThaneofFife said:

Possibly a couple of Gatwick Express / Railair Link Mk2fs?  Is there a Bachmann GLV?

 

i dont see Hornby getting into the fitted lights thing with its coaches anymore.  and certainly not dcc.

 

as they were so keen to release 87010 again once the new tooled model was announced I wonder if they feel the same pull on LNWR black lined model they announced for the old Limby model or whether that artwork will ever get used again.....and i dont see them touching the class 86 now. sure that ship has sailed.

 

Would a new run of mk3 sleepers sell in inter-city executive livery?  i think these have had some tooling revisions but i dont believe the sleepers have been made in this livery since Lima days with huge D-coupings, pizza cutter wheels and clear glazing.

 

Hornby have done some Intercity Exec sleepers as I have a rake of them - notably the lower bodysides on them are very cream in colour compared to Bachmann or other's efforts at the colour scheme.  Was released around same time as blue grey ones which were very dark blue in colour and the extent of the grey around the windows is wrong.  Both are sitting in boxes awaiting attention with the airbrush one day (and upgrades to better couplings etc.).  If H were to re-release with correct colours and better couplings then would save me the effort!

M 

[tomparryharry]

Slightly remaining on the 'saint' part of the thread, didn't Hornby make them years ago? Assuming the quality & fidelity expectations have risen over the years, I'd not expect to see a Saint for some time. Stationmaster commented that the marketeers wouldn't want another Western 4-6-0:- "They all look the same", said one.... In that case, and with my pragmatic head on, means we won't see one for a while....

 

Now, I said that about the Large Prairie, and look where that left me......

 

If Hornby are 'resting' from 4-6-0 fever, then it really does make a better case for nice little early-era pannier or saddle tank. Rapido 'appear' to be stuck on the mark vis-a-vis the 16xx pannier, so it's anybody's game.  

 

A nice little full-fat pannier or saddle tank, with high-fidelity and all the bells & whistles? Nah, no chance.... "We couldn't sell many of them....." 

 

Cheers,

Ian.

[gwrrob]

I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if someone other than the big two announces a GWR 4-6-0 soon.

[mdvle]

 

10 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Given Dapol have yet to release the Priarie and Mogul, I can’t see them adding a Manor at this stage.

 

It all depends.

 

One option for Dapol would be to slot the Manor in between the Mogul and Prairie - if you aren't going to get the Prairie to market prior to Hornby then there is no particular rush to get it out after the Mogul and with the Manor offering at least some reuse of tooling from the Mogul it could be an easy win.  On the other hand if Dapol waits then it is possible someone else comes out with a Manor first, thus removing some of the advantage of being able to reuse that tooling.  Dapol could also use the research and some of the CAD for an O scale Manor. 

[rogerzilla]

It's all about the most minted market, the recently-retired (say those in their early 60s).  The current crop just about remember BR steam, but soon they won't, and it's blue diesels that may be the big sellers.  Blue diesel looked drab at the time (you rarely saw a shiny one) but it looks like a nice clean, unified piece of branding now.

 

Steam has got to a point where you might as well do pre-Grouping as Big Four because no-one currently starting a layout remembers either, but aesthetics are important and there are people like me, brought up on Rev Awdry's books, who think a Gresley A3 is what a steam engine should look like, anything earlier looks a bit gawky ("hard man" cabs and dainty little tenders) while the BR standard stuff looks spartan with the high running plates.  So Big Four will probably still sell more in the steam market.

[Dunsignalling]

9 minutes ago, rogerzilla said:

It's all about the most minted market, the recently-retired (say those in their early 60s).  The current crop just about remember BR steam, but soon they won't, and it's blue diesels that may be the big sellers.  Blue diesel looked drab at the time (you rarely saw a shiny one) but it looks like a nice clean, unified piece of branding now.

 

Steam has got to a point where you might as well do pre-Grouping as Big Four because no-one currently starting a layout remembers either, but aesthetics are important and there are people like me, brought up on Rev Awdry's books, who think a Gresley A3 is what a steam engine should look like, anything earlier looks a bit gawky ("hard man" cabs and dainty little tenders) while the BR standard stuff looks spartan with the high running plates.  So Big Four will probably still sell more in the steam market.

But you are neglecting one vital aspect of the 1960s steam scene.

 

You can run steam alongside diesel and, more importantly from Hornby's standpoint, they can sell both to the same people.....

 

Demand for Big Four seems to have been in decline for a while, though, which may or may not be "demographic" and, whilst locos "as preserved" in pre-group liveries have made it into r-t-r, locos in pre-group condition are another matter.  

 

John 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[rogerzilla]

1 minute ago, Dunsignalling said:

But you are neglecting one aspect of the 1960s steam scene.

 

You can run steam alongside diesel and, more importantly from Hornby's standpoint, they can sell both to the same people.....

 

Big Four seems to have been in decline for a while, though, which may or may not be "demographic" and, whilst locos "as preserved" in pre-group liveries have made it into r-t-r, locos in pre-group condition are another matter.  

 

John 

 

 

Agreed, there are a lot of "late crest" layouts for this reason. 

[mdvle]

10 minutes ago, rogerzilla said:

It's all about the most minted market, the recently-retired (say those in their early 60s).

 

A North American manufacturer has commented that while their 1980s and newer products generate the most response on their Facebook page, it is the 1960s/transition era models that generate the most sales.

[acg5324]

My email from the RM/CM yesterday has a tantalising clue on the front cover.

[Dunsignalling]

As one of the (allegedly) most minted, there hasn't been much of great interest to me over the past year and a fair bit of my budget went unspent.

 

I've just blown those leftovers and a bit more on about nine loco's-worth of new camera, so a glut of the "irresistible" will be inevitable.

 

John

[Steamport Southport]

3 minutes ago, acg5324 said:

My email from the RM/CM yesterday has a tantalising clue on the front cover.

 

Where? Can't see them making obscure LSWR era 4-4-0s with watertube fireboxes.

 

 

 

Jason

[acg5324]

10 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Where? Can't see them making obscure LSWR era 4-4-0s with watertube fireboxes.

 

 

 

Jason

The red spot says Hornby ambitious plans for 2020.

[scottrains29]

10 hours ago, ThaneofFife said:

 

i dont see Hornby getting into the fitted lights thing with its coaches anymore.  and certainly not dcc.

 

The Virgin mk2e coaches Hornby released all came with lights fitted. It would be rather odd (and annoying) if they produced the Virgin FO or RFB without lights!

 

Hornby released R4702 SO and R4704 BSO in Virgin livery but did not release a matching FO or RFB micro buffet. At the time they failed to announce a matching Virgin FO when they already had the FO mk2e tooling, therefore I now suspect they may have always planned to bring out the mk2f RFB micro buffet now that they have tooled up the mk2f. To date there is no R4703 (the R number inbetween the Virgin SO and BSO).

[159220]

159220 to Santa’s list for what I would like to see from Hornby in 2020:
 

A new unit, either the CAF Civity or the Stadler Flirt. They’re “now”, they’re snazzy, they’re the future...
Hornby surely must be the natural manufacturer to produce a Siemens 374 e320 Eurostar set? Bringing in a new generation to the hobby, seeing that the original 373 has been reduced to 4 units at Eurostar. OK I accept it would not be high detail, but hey long as it looks right, right?...
I really really really have been keen to own an Electrostar for several years, surely, a wide geographical spread and a range of liveries has finally convinced Hornby of its merits? Basic shape, simple liveries...how could they go wrong!

Seeing as last year brought us the Mk3 with sliding doors, surely a standard HST Mk3 re-tool would be a simple and welcomed update to the range?

Saying that, there are a number of models in the range which need a re-tool. Most have been taken on my others, so if Hornby don’t re-tool the class 50, 56 (which spring to mind), someone else will. I guess there in lies an argument to make for re-tooling the entire crude tool range even if already re-tooled else where as Hornby is the brand ambassador for the hobby. That class 59/66, 90 etc are just embarrassing.

A given must be the New Measurement Train HST in “Digital Railway” livery as the coaches were released in 2019...I sold mine as a nice profit on eBay to cover a new one. Sod’s law says that this now won’t happen!!
Seeing as the HST (all be it, in its original conception) has ceased, perhaps a few liveries on yet to be done or finally Sir Kenneth Grange for FGW/GWR! Is anyone else finding themselves seeking more East Coast? 
A GBRf class 60, and though I would like to see a DCR one. This livery might be a little late to feature in 2020?

Other clear wins would be DRS and Rivera liveries on the Mk2fs (thought I’d prefer Bachmann too).

I have a feeling we are not done with BR diesels and could the market handle another offering from Hornby in mass market section based on a class 37 or 47... mainly for sets, and as sets bring in newbies, this can only be a good thing? That “57” in the Northern Belle pack was the embarrassment of 2019. Damn, people actually bought it! 
Talking of Northern Belle, can we please have more Mk2e and more Sleepers...ideally the sleepers are much like the Mk3 HST coaches above, re-tooled. 

Plus, some creative/innovative ways to interact with the hobby could be launched. Has anyone seen what Scalextric is up to? Pretty cool! 
And of course, surely we are going to see the tooling changes to the 800/0 to get the 802s in GWR/TPE & HT?
Loads of easy wins there, logically placed, could see Hornby’s continued success...but...

I fear there shall be further duplication this year, a shame, but it’s going to happen and perhaps Hornby’s mass market focus and the high end niche manufacturers can thrive. There are a few like me who rather pay top dollar for the best, but there are many happy with “it looks right”. At the end of the day, there is money to be made in both parts of the market, I think we all agree Hornby is in the latter segment. Still, prove me wrong and release a dcc controlled working pantograph, CDL lights and etched details on the Hitachi AT300.....!

Still, the market could likely take a mass range new tool duplication from Hornby and still have the higher end, ultra detailed £££ version from Accurascale, Heljan, RealTrack, Rapido, Revolution, Cavalex etc. Interesting question is where do you place Bachmann now? Mass market detail or ultra detail? I go for ultra detail, the class 158 proves that... just a question...

 

Would I buy...

Bachmann or Hornby Mk2f - Bachmann

Accurascale or Hornby 37 - Accurascale

Heljan or Hornby 47 - NEITHER I would keep my ViTrains!!

hmm not good for Hornby. Yet I am merely one person who have money to splash on a hobby!

 

Would the majority of the market, inc. newcomers and younger modellers but also (if they actually do exist as customers) the “its too expensive/sayyywhhhaaattt price” modellers...

Bachmann or Hornby Mk2f - Hornby

Accurascale or Hornby 37 - Hornby

Heljan or Hornby 47 - Hornby

I see, winning all the way to the creditors/plc types.