Formula 1, 2020

[Hobby]

I thought it was after the highlights, but could be wrong... Perhaps Andrew will clarify as it's his thread!

[Gareth Collier]

1 hour ago, Hobby said:

I thought it was after the highlights, but could be wrong... Perhaps Andrew will clarify as it's his thread!

There is a new thread for each season and this has gone back before this season. Like I said, if you don't want to know the result look away now but in the past people still moaned more than 24 hours later!

If you decide to read a F1 thread before you've seen the highlights you've only yourself to blame.

[PhilJ W]

Oh dear.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/57382//

[Oldddudders]

So, twice in three races, Lewis is let down by the army of people on the other end of his radio. Toto is very good at telling us all that there are 2k great people making the success that is Mercedes F1 right now. About time he put some stick about, perhaps. 

[ianwales]

30 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

So, twice in three races, Lewis is let down by the army of people on the other end of his radio.

 

Sorry, no, Lewis is let down by his own inability to know the rules and listen to the drivers briefing, then manages to shift the blame to others, absolutely typical of him. He shouldn't have to ask where to do practise starts, he should know, it is briefed out.

[Oldddudders]

7 minutes ago, ianwales said:

 

Sorry, no, Lewis is let down by his own inability to know the rules and listen to the drivers briefing, then manages to shift the blame to others, absolutely typical of him. He shouldn't have to ask where to do practise starts, he should know, it is briefed out.

Yawn.

[phil-b259]

5 minutes ago, ianwales said:

 

Sorry, no, Lewis is let down by his own inability to know the rules and listen to the drivers briefing, then manages to shift the blame to others, absolutely typical of him. He shouldn't have to ask where to do practise starts, he should know, it is briefed out.

 

So you remember absolutely everything you are told do you?

 

Lewis may simply have got himself confused or forgotten them in the heat of the moment - and as every railwayman should know if you are unsure you ask questions to make sure you don't make a mistake. In this instance Lewis received the explicit assurance from his team that he would be OK to perform the practice starts where he did - and thus the blame for all that follows rests entirely with his team.

 

Only if the answer on the radio been 'no' or 'we are not sure' and Lewis took the personal decision to go ahead himself could it be right be said that Lewis was at fault. The adjustment of the post race penalty (fining the team and canceling Lewis's personal penalty points) clearly demonstrates this.

[EddieB]

1 hour ago, ianwales said:

 

Sorry, no, Lewis is let down by his own inability to know the rules and listen to the drivers briefing, then manages to shift the blame to others, absolutely typical of him. He shouldn't have to ask where to do practise starts, he should know, it is briefed out.

Well given the “explanation” of rules 19.1 and 19.2 on C4, there is plenty of ambiguity and I don’t blame Lewis for double-checking.  I wonder whether Michael Schumacher would have received the same double penalty when going towards setting a record for race wins?

 

However I think Ian was making the point that the Mercedes crew almost cost Lewis getting through Q2, by insisting he stop and change tyres after his first lap was deleted.  Ok, they couldn’t predict Vettel’s spin (ok, perhaps they could), but that’s why drivers want to lay down a “banker” lap.

 

Again in the race, Lewis wanted to delay the pitstop as it would have lessened the impact of the double penalty.

 

Still, Lewis must be a dirty and dangerous driver, judging by the points on his super licence...

 

[Ok, the two points added today have since been rescinded]

Edited September 27, 2020 by EddieB

[Classsix T]

If the rules are that ambiguous that neither those beholden to them nor those charged with their enforcement are laser focused on the meaning then they're clearly unfit for purpose.

 

And to rescind Lewis' penalty points but keep the race result and fine the team proves the rule makers know they're in the wrong, not enough to admit it mind you. Farcical. 

 

Reverse grids? Nah we'll just make the rules up as we go along. 

 

C6T. 

[newbryford]

4 minutes ago, Classsix T said:

 

 

And to rescind Lewis' penalty points but keep the race result and fine the team proves the rule makers know they're in the wrong, not enough to admit it mind you. Farcical. 

 

 

 

More here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54318727

[newbryford]

[conspiracy theory time]

Regarding when (not if) Lewis equals Schumacher's record - and it was possibly going to be at Mugello - home of Ferrari.

Since that plan was scuppered by Max at Silverstone, I wonder if the next best place would be Germany............?

[/conspiracy theory time]

 

And if it does happen in Germany - how about a new track - Portimao - to break the record?

[PMW]

13 minutes ago, Classsix T said:

we'll just make the rules up as we go along

 

Which is what, in practice Formula 1 has been doing for at least the last forty years.

 

Unfortunately in such an environment there will always be faces which fit, and faces which don't. I hoped when Bernie Ecclestone sold his controlling interest in F1 that the management would be changed, would become more transparent. We were promised that it would, that the sport would be taken away from big business and given back to the fans but sadly none of that has happened, if anything it has become even more clouded, as demonstrated by the Ferrari "engine gate" last year. 

Edited September 27, 2020 by PMW

[Hroth]

Well, at least the FIA are being open about penalising Hamilton at the drop of a hat.  I'm surprised they didn't try to nobble him when he managed to cross the line a second before the flag dropped at the end of Q2!

 

There's some sort of conspiracy?  Nahhhhhhh.....

 

A most unsatisfactory race.

[57xx]

7 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Arghh spoilers, I don't get to see the race until the highlights and even then it may be the recorded highlights

 

Stay out of the thread until you seen the race then, simple.

[EddieB]

Worth watching the C4 highlights right through, DC and MW telling the Red Bull story from their perspectives.

[Andrew P]

5 hours ago, Hobby said:

I thought it was after the highlights, but could be wrong... Perhaps Andrew will clarify as it's his thread!

O.K. Time for my two penneth.

 

And I think this goes back to when Ian  / Olddudders started the F1 thread a year or two ago.

 

As far as I'm concerned, = If you don't want to know anything don't look on here until your ready to know something.

 

Some people will watch it live on Sky or listen to the Radio, others like myself will have to wait for the C4 Highlights program, and then there are those that record it for later.

 

So I say Post when you want. 

But LOOK when you want to know information, be it News, Quali, or the Race Result.

[Oldddudders]

39 minutes ago, EddieB said:

However I think Ian was making the point that the Mercedes crew almost cost Lewis getting through Q2, by insisting he stop and change tyres after his first lap was deleted.  

Valid example of the team making dubious calls, certainly, but I was really referring to the Monza pit closure issue, where the stewards' decision was transmitted in a part of the data no-one was looking at. Lewis drove a sterling race, but he could have done a lot better. If it's a team, it needs to be supporting the two blokes out there on their own. 

[Andrew P]

And now for another go at the FIA / Ferrari International Assistance.

Why was Leclerc NOT given a Penalty for taking Stroll out of the Race?

They were hard enough on everybody else over the weekend.

[Hroth]

8 minutes ago, EddieB said:

Worth watching the C4 highlights right through, DC and MW telling the Red Bull story from their perspectives.

 

Must admit, as I record the highlights and don't watch the programme "live", I skip the talking heads at the beginning (plus all the adverts throughout), and stop viewing once the cars have crossed the finishing line! I'll have another look later and skip the podium...

 

[EddieB]

Question.

 

Was there a virtual safety car at Monza to replace the polystyrene blocks damaged in Vettel’s brake failure incident?

 

Why then the need to have one at Sochi after Grosjean’s demolition derby (part two)?  Even under VSC it’s an unnecessary safety risk for the marshals.

[Oldddudders]

2 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

And now for another go at the FIA / Ferrari International Assistance.

Why was Leclerc NOT given a Penalty for taking Stroll out of the Race?

They were hard enough on everybody else over the weekend.

Stroll was clearly ahead at the point of contact. 

[EddieB]

5 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

And now for another go at the FIA / Ferrari International Assistance.

Why was Leclerc NOT given a Penalty for taking Stroll out of the Race?

They were hard enough on everybody else over the weekend.

Investigation, yes.

Penalty, no.

 

Drivers must be allowed to race.

[RJS1977]

3 minutes ago, EddieB said:

Question.

 

Was there a virtual safety car at Monza to replace the polystyrene blocks damaged in Vettel’s brake failure incident?

 

Why then the need to have one at Sochi after Grosjean’s demolition derby (part two)?  Even under VSC it’s an unnecessary safety risk for the marshals.

 

A lot would probably depend on the layout of the circuit and how spaced out the cars were in terms of the length of time available to the marshalls to replace the blocks. IIRC Vettel's incident at Moza happened fairly early in the race (when the cars were close together), Grosjean's happened later on when the cars were more spread so there was less of a window of clear track available to the marshalls. Also several cars had already gone off at Turn 2 today, so it was quite likely another one might do while the marshalls were still on track.

 

Incidentally - big smash and one very lucky marshall in today's third BTCC race!

[newbryford]

I guess Ferrari must be pleased.

 

Replacing one crasher with another "lets' drive into a wall for no reason".............

[mudmagnet]

Oh boy, another race of inconsistent rulings by the stewards. It certainly smacks of trying to keep the championship race alive a little longer, yet apart from Max Verstappen, there does not seem to be any other driver / car combination who seems to be able to get anywhere close to matching Lewis' driving this year. Sorry to type this, but Valteri does not seem to have the raw talent to extract everything out of the car or his performance. There seem to be several races where his pace is so far off LH or his race craft appears lacking. Yes, he does qualify well, but seems to go off the boil in the race.

 

Although MV has previously been a bit ragged, he does seem to give it his all when given the opportunity and drive the 'socks of the car'. As frequently mentioned by the commentators, you can only properly judge team mates in the 'same' car. Albon appears to be a long way behind MV, Lando / Sainz seem to be reasonably closely matched, as are Perez and Stroll. I won't mention Vettel ......

 

At least the FIA have seen sense and recinded LH driver licence penalties.