Panic buying

[Phil Parker]

8 minutes ago, Ouroborus said:

Well, given what we all knew would happen, maybe it is an idea to ignore it.  Plenty of news stories get ignored everyday, plenty of others get trumped up to sell advertising.  Daily Mail, take your bow.

 

We knew what would happen at the end of the Euros when England got in the final - this argument would suggest that those ought to have been ignored as well.

 

Of course, had it been ignored, then the BBC bashers would have blamed them for not telling anyone. Besides, I doubt the press release would have only been e-mailed to a single media outlet.

[SamThomas]

42 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Total myth I'm afraid. 

 

Your boss will want you back at your office where they can see what you are doing. If you don't, then expect your hours to be cut as well as your pay.

 

I know for a fact that many office workers are now getting the "get back or get sacked" warnings. That includes civil servants and include people I know who work for the DWP.

 

 

Jason

Sorry Jason I disagree.

 

The people I know who are/have been working at home have reported higher productivity (backed up by data from their line managers).

 

No time wasted at the coffe machine/photocopier & people not so tired because of commuting.

 

Line managers can monitor their staff remotely.

[TheQ]

26 minutes ago, alastairq said:

The question of ''using the Army [and RAF]'' to supplement civilian drivers for fuel deliveries is fraught with it's own issues.

Firstly, the soldiers/air personnel have been, and are being, trained to far higher standards thanks to the civilian operators dictating the course criteria.

 

Significant in that the military will be using the civilian operators' vehicles. [Rather than turning up in an Oshkosh and off-road capable tanker]

The have all undergone ADR courses [and passed] provided by the MoD.

As such, they will all be quit competent drivers [especially the lasses]...

I had some personal contact with the courses when they were first set up.

The physical driving side was created by civilian instructors who had long, personal experience  of tanker driving. [Not a couple of years, but decades]

This involved re-creating all the nasty devious types of ancient oil refinery loading spots, all the nasty devious delivery spots, that could be thought of. 

[Nothing is straight forwards for a lorry or bus driver in this country..it has too much in the way of legacy infrastructure!!!]

The tanker training itself was conducted with civilian equivalents [on lease, I believe, probably]....artic vehicle [albeit the tanks filled with water, not fuel]

But first the 'students' had to undergo artic training and assessment ... {My involvement here was, training instructors to fill places should the Op be activated]

Having already passed the appropriate Hazmat course....the students  then pass the main course.....BUT, unless they are utilized almost immediately , they go away to 'do other things', such is the life of military personnel.

Thus, although they are 'qualified' they will likely be  timed-out for that qualification, and need refresher training.  Which won't be an immediate action..it takes time to get personnel away frote 'jobs' they are doing now, send them back to  [DCLPA, aka DST] to undergo an appropriately worked-up refresher course....This all takes time. Plus, who will do the jobs that are vacated by the personnel who are now on a refresher course to drive civilian tankers?

 

A lot of shuffling about of personnel..and instructors, of course.

Of course, there has been for decades a shortage of qualified instructors too....something the MoD wanted to close its eyes to, but were awakened after I retired....[again, like LGV drivers, an aging skilled workforce...}

After the turn of the century [this one, not the last one].....the DSA [now DVSA] had an issue with LGV instructors nationwide. Unlike car driver instructors {ADI] there was no official LGV instructor register...anyone could do it, effectively [and, still can]... So the DSA set up a Register....whereupon mst of the Cat C, C+E & D+E instructors employed by the MoD [civil servants]  qualified for, and were placed on the DSA LGV Instructor register.....numbers soared from a couple of hundred, nationwide, to well over a thousand, just from my own Establishment alone.

Come renewal time, the DSA wanted £125 from each of us, teh MoD refused to subsidies, and the Registration wasn't in itself a  compulsory requirement for us to do our various instructional jobs....so, almost overnight, the DSA was faced with a drip of Registered Instructors of nearly a half...we all got snottograms from DSA [in a fit of pique, obviously] about not renewing....{ I should add, we all held relevant military qualifications for our relevant work...which paralleled, and sometimes exceeded, civilian equivalents]

 

The current political suggestion of utilising Military Driving Examiners to test civilians is a nice idea...but will involve both civilian & military personnel, who are definitely not currently just sitting around doing nothing for a living.  [Military examiners are 'governed' by the DSA as-was]

So, whilst MoD examiners are out testing civilians, who is testing the military personnel also being trained?

 

 

Mind, the military have never hit their recruitment targets [hence when cuts in personnel have been demanded, very few if any, recently have been chucked out...since the existing numbers of personnel were actually below the new lower number demanded.....

 

So like every other aspect of our lives, the reality numbers never ever mathc the top line numbers.

Whether it's lorry drivers, teachers, medical personnel, or whatever.

 

Not just tanker drivers.

Over the years the great reduction of the number of military personnel,  has reduced the number of highly qualified drivers of all sorts that become available on the market each year. This applies to many other trades.

 

Many Electronic manufacturers are suffering a shortage of qualified staff for repair and maintenance. Apart from the reduction in size, the military have reduced their need for qualified personnel by employing civilian companies to do their repairs.. Who used to get their personnel from.....  The Military...

[Denbridge]

On 26/09/2021 at 13:30, Sir TophamHatt said:

Another thought about this panic buying petrol thing... 

 

Wasn't there a shortage.. a real shortage back in the 90s? Sure my sister had to leave her Ford Sierra down in Devon through lack of petrol.

But I'm sure there was no panic buying... people just filled up when they ran out and if you didn't NEED it, you didn't fill up.

 

Perhaps in 15 years people have got more selfish or perhaps more reliant on the car.

 

But then those people still speeding round after everyone else ran out, shame they don't need an ambulance and the 999 people say they can't come out as there's no fuel.

The big difference is that the 90's fuel crisis was genuine shortages. This time there are no fuel shortages except those caused by unnecessary greed and panic fuelled by our mainstream media 

[Ouroborus]

 

 

7 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

We knew what would happen at the end of the Euros when England got in the final - this argument would suggest that those ought to have been ignored as well.

 

What a silly comparison.  If by running a story, you will know there will be serious repercussions, you should weigh up the merit of the story vs the consequences

The original story was something of non-story that 10%? of BP stations may suffer a shortage.   I mean really, how many people would actually notice that.  But by running the story, all hell ensues.  We all knew what would happen.  And now we have people unable to get to hospital appointments and ambulances unable to get to sick people.   Did the ends justify the means?

Running a story and claiming it is in the public interest is a weak excuse.  Remember Cliff Richard?  I think the BBC had its fingers all over that and effectively ruined the man's career.

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Ouroborus

[monkeysarefun]

Re tanker driver shortage - Why don't yas just do it like they do out here? Is a bit hairy overtaking them though, even in the unlimited speed zones.

[Nick C]

9 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

Sorry Jason I disagree.

 

The people I know who are/have been working at home have reported higher productivity (backed up by data from their line managers).

 

No time wasted at the coffe machine/photocopier & people not so tired because of commuting.

 

Line managers can monitor their staff remotely.

Unfortunatley, while you are correct, that doesn't work - we are more productive working from home, they know we are more productive, and yet they still demand that we go back to the office. 

 

And that's despite the SAGE advice saying that a wholesale return to the office will cause a spike in hospital admissions. 

[TheQ]

53 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Total myth I'm afraid. 

 

Your boss will want you back at your office where they can see what you are doing. If you don't, then expect your hours to be cut as well as your pay.

 

I know for a fact that many office workers are now getting the "get back or get sacked" warnings. That includes civil servants and include people I know who work for the DWP.

 

 

Jason

Not entirely true.

The company I work for has announce all workers who can do will be expected to WFH several days a week permanently .

Norwich Union  / Aviva has announce they will expect workers to spend 60% of time WFH, that's 28,000 people. They have already given up a big building in Norwich..

The Insurance brokers I use the other side of Norfolk , has several thousand workers they announced they will convert to around 50% WFH time.

 

[Fat Controller]

3 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said:

Re tanker driver shortage - Why don't yas just do it like they do out here? Is a bit hairy overtaking them though, even in the unlimited speed zones.

You'd never get them on most filling-station forecourts.

[hayfield]

57 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

The education sector, driven by various government ideals has produced  "better" qualified school leavers with degrees and hence higher job expectations. For decades, governments haven't recognised, accepted or planned for the need for a skilled workforce to provide healthcare, transport and distribution staff, etc. The temporary visa plan, even if it works will only be a temporary fix and then we'll be back in the poo again. It's enough to make you want to move to France.

 

Jol

 

You are spot on here, but they wanted better qualified school leavers, however we have been told by the academics that the qualifications have been dummed down over the years to improve league tables and at the expense of teaching life skills we were taught in the past, plus as you say giving false hope to many of being able to entre high paying career jobs which do not exist

 

Having worked with many graduates over the last 11 years I did wonder what some learnt over the 3 years. Don't get me wrong some were very bright and extremely capable at their jobs but the lower third of them in my opinion wasted 3 years, in contrast to some who never went to uni and spent their time climbing the promotional ladder by merit 

[Steamport Southport]

4 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Not entirely true.

The company I work for has announce all workers who can do will be expected to WFH several days a week permanently .

Norwich Union  / Aviva has announce they will expect workers to spend 60% of time WFH, that's 28,000 people. They have already given up a big building in Norwich..

The Insurance brokers I use the other side of Norfolk , has several thousand workers they announced they will convert to around 50% WFH time.

 

 

Yes. Then they get their hours cut. 

 

I think you are seeing a move to make people redundant, turned into part timers or their jobs moved to a call centre abroad....

[hayfield]

47 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Hardly a "whistle blower" - it was BP who sent out a press release. What is any media outlet supposed to do with that, ignore it? Then be accused of burying bad news?

 

Phil

 

The initial problem according to the BBC's news reporter on Thursday was that there were a few petrol stations who had run out of petrol

 

Rather than reporting this from one of the many petrol stations that morning who had plenty of petrol and no queues, reassuring motorists this was a limited issue, they like other news outlets chose to publicise the few without petrol causing the mass panicking we have seen since, plus increasing prices at many forecourts 

 

In this case I would support windfall taxes on the petrol companies excess profits they have made, as others have said this is not a new issue and the companies were coping a situation created by those with an agenda to pursue   

[APOLLO]

I'm alright (Jack).

 

I've had a "catalytic" converter fitted - Converts pee into petrol !!

 

 

Brit15

[Jol Wilkinson]

6 minutes ago, Nick C said:

Unfortunatley, while you are correct, that doesn't work - we are more productive working from home, they know we are more productive, and yet they still demand that we go back to the office. 

 

And that's despite the SAGE advice saying that a wholesale return to the office will cause a spike in hospital admissions. 

It all depends on the business you are working in and your role. I have several young relations who are having to work from home and whilst there are benefits, there are also disadvantages. One nephew started a job with the CAA and didn't meet any colleagues for three months, leaving him feeling  isolated.

 

Before retiring I worked in the motor industry. I would take the occasional WFH day when I could usually do two days office paperwork in half a day (so usually took a Friday!). However, working with my team of people and office colleagues in others sections couldn't be done effectively from home. Mentoring people, developing new ideas and programmes, etc. doesn't work well online or over the phone. It is one of the reasons we also had area managers who visited our franchised dealers to offer support, promote business, etc.

[hayfield]

20 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Not entirely true.

The company I work for has announce all workers who can do will be expected to WFH several days a week permanently .

Norwich Union  / Aviva has announce they will expect workers to spend 60% of time WFH, that's 28,000 people. They have already given up a big building in Norwich..

The Insurance brokers I use the other side of Norfolk , has several thousand workers they announced they will convert to around 50% WFH time.

 

 

What is wrong if an employer wants its staff to go back to the office, there are as many benefits working from the office than home

 

Quite often when trying to chase up a company for some outstanding item they always blame both covid and their workers working from home as the issue. With so many companies blaming home working for poor performance/productivity how can it be better for workers to work from home?

[Ron Ron Ron]

4 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

I'm alright (Jack).

 

I've had a "catalytic" converter fitted - Converts pee into petrol !!

 

 

Brit15

 

Your just taking the......

 

 

.

[Bernard Lamb]

21 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Not entirely true.

The company I work for has announce all workers who can do will be expected to WFH several days a week permanently .

Norwich Union  / Aviva has announce they will expect workers to spend 60% of time WFH, that's 28,000 people. They have already given up a big building in Norwich..

The Insurance brokers I use the other side of Norfolk , has several thousand workers they announced they will convert to around 50% WFH time.

 

I thought that they had been supporting WFH for quite a number of years. At least for certain jobs, Long before covid changed things at  a wider level.

Bernard

[Reorte]

23 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Not entirely true.

The company I work for has announce all workers who can do will be expected to WFH several days a week permanently .

Norwich Union  / Aviva has announce they will expect workers to spend 60% of time WFH, that's 28,000 people. They have already given up a big building in Norwich..

The Insurance brokers I use the other side of Norfolk , has several thousand workers they announced they will convert to around 50% WFH time.

 

That would make me look for a new job. I'll work from home under exceptional circumstances (which Covid is), and did for a few weeks at the start, but it's not often that I've got work I can do from home. But it being expected regularly is something I draw the line at - I do not want work to cross the boundary in to my home, I'm very strong on having distinct boundaries between them - WFH is something I find intrusive and a big imposition.

 

Different people have different views on it of course and it works for many but I'm not one of them.

 

Set me up with a remote access office ten minute's walk from home and I'd be willing to use that (although I'd prefer not to).

[hayfield]

3 minutes ago, Reorte said:

 

That would make me look for a new job. I'll work from home under exceptional circumstances (which Covid is), and did for a few weeks at the start, but it's not often that I've got work I can do from home. But it being expected regularly is something I draw the line at - I do not want work to cross the boundary in to my home, I'm very strong on having distinct boundaries between them - WFH is something I find intrusive and a big imposition.

 

Different people have different views on it of course and it works for many but I'm not one of them.

 

Set me up with a remote access office ten minute's walk from home and I'd be willing to use that (although I'd prefer not to).

 

 

I totally agree with you, I spent 29 years being self employed and being available 24/7. I changed jobs and for the last 11 years when I left work I left the job I refused to download the new online staff system, as I would only work when I was at work. That's all they paid me for. Quite often I might start early or stay a bit later, but that was more to do with helping out my other fellow workers

[Phil Parker]

11 minutes ago, hayfield said:

The initial problem according to the BBC's news reporter on Thursday was that there were a few petrol stations who had run out of petrol

 

It was on the radio on Wednesday. By Thursday, all the papers were covering it (Paper review for Thursday:  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-58686520) which is when the amusingly named reporter went out to a petrol station. And, as you say, he said "a few" stations were short - exactly what the BP press release had said. By this point, government ministers were starting to tell us not to panic, which sparked a panic.

 

 

 

[ejstubbs]

3 hours ago, Titan said:

...you are forced to fill up now because you might not be able to when you need it in a few days time...

 

But that is pretty much the definition of panic buying: when people don't need stuff right now, but they buy as much as they possibly can* anyway out of fear (justified or otherwise) that none will be available when they do need it.

 

* Limited in this instance by the free capacity of the vehicle's fuel tank (plus how many extra cans they may want to try to get away with).

[Ron Ron Ron]

There is no doubt some exaggeration of the driver shortage statistics, which isn't entirely unexpected from our media.

Only 2 or 3 months ago, the press reports were that the shortage was up to 76,000....now the nice big round figure of 100,000 looks more juicy.

 

Let's have a look back in time.... (click the links to read the articles)

 

 

December 2014 - Food Manufacture (industry news)  ...long before the referendum and long before 90% plus of the UK population was even aware of the "Brexit issue".

HGV driver shortage could cripple food industry.

 

October 2015 - The Guardian ...again, months before the Brexit debate really got going.

Lorry driver shortage 'could put Christmas deliveries at risk'

 

September 2015 - Daily Mirror

The trucker is becoming an endangered species as lorry driver shortage hits the industry

 

October 2019 - Logistics UK

HGV driver shortage climbs to 59,000

 

January 2021 - 9 months ago (this year)

The UK truck driver shortage in 2021

 

 

 

 

.

 

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Total myth I'm afraid. 

 

Your boss will want you back at your office where they can see what you are doing. If you don't, then expect your hours to be cut as well as your pay.

 

I know for a fact that many office workers are now getting the "get back or get sacked" warnings. That includes civil servants and include people I know who work for the DWP.

 

 

Jason

I've been informally WFH since 2016, was formalised in April 2021, company are quite happy for most people to work from home.

 

However, for some people office working will remain a requirement where processes, security or the type of work requires face to face working but for a lot of companies IP phone systems, laptops and solid broadband connections means they can untether their staff from a physical office.

[woodenhead]

51 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Yes. Then they get their hours cut. 

 

I think you are seeing a move to make people redundant, turned into part timers or their jobs moved to a call centre abroad....

My hours are not being cut, outsourcing abroad, it's not so popular now especially in local and central Government circles.

[Ron Ron Ron]

20 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

It was on the radio on Wednesday. By Thursday, all the papers were covering it (Paper review for Thursday:  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-58686520) which is when the amusingly named reporter went out to a petrol station. And, as you say, he said "a few" stations were short - exactly what the BP press release had said. By this point, government ministers were starting to tell us not to panic, which sparked a panic.

 

 

It comes from before last Wednesday Phil.

There was an industry Taskforce meeting with the government on the 16th of September.

Among those attending were Tesco, McDonald’s, Unilever, BP, Amazon, Kingfisher and Eddie Stobart, the haulage company. As well as the RHA and another trade body, Logistics UK.

 

"Hanna Hofer, the head of BP’s retail business, told the meeting that the company had “two thirds of normal forecourt stock levels”.

She also said, according to others present in the meeting, that only five out of BP’s 1,200 forecourts were closed on any given day.

 

"Someone" who was present is said to have then "leaked" news of exaggerated impending shortages to ITV news.

There are accusations about who that was and his motives.

 

 

.