Panic buying

[Jol Wilkinson]

BBC Look East tonight carried many stories of empty fuel stations, long queues, etc. However we were reassured (not) by George Eustace parroting Grant Shapps, telling us there isn't a problem. Clearly their message isn't getting across or, being politicians, nobody believes them.

 

Lack of consideration for others has been increasingly evident in this country for years. It has become a greater issue since the beginning of the Covid pandemic. Whether it was panic buying loo rolls, hoarding foodstuffs, refusing to have the Covid vaccination or filling up fuel tanks and extra jerry cans, selfish and inconsiderate behaviour is increasingly the new normal.

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, F-UnitMad said:

Class 1 is the (very) old term, it just sounds more meaningful than 'C+E'.

 

Like translating exam results back to A-B-C from whatever the hell they are these days.

[SM42]

Today the news team were at a garage not too far from here. No queues and the manager stating they have plenty of fuel

 

An hour later they go back to the intrepid reporter and there is a queue down the road.

Fortunately being a garage run by the company that sells and moves fuel and other such products about as the day job, they could arrange extra deliveries quite easily. 

 

It was noticeable heading into work today that many of the garages roped off yesterday weren't, suggesting a delivery that no-one had noticed.

On the way home, one garage advertising no fuel, the others busy but the queues fitted on the forecourt 

 

There is hope yet

 

Andy

[Denbridge]

35 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

Sorry Denbridge, one example is not statistically significant.  If it were there would not have been  problem but there clearly is.

I maintain that the ONLY real problem is the idiots panic buying.  They are the sole reason stations are running out of fuel.

[SamThomas]

Easy way to halve the queues - vehicles with even numbers on their index plates fill up on even numbered dates - odd numbers, odd dates.

 

IIRC the French did something like that a few decades ago.

 

Anyone here (old enough to) remember the oil crisis in (I think the early 70's) when they actually issued fuel ration books ?

 

[Rivercider]

7 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Covered earlier on SKY. Confirmed by the Petrol Retailers Association.

 

A whistleblower went to a "British broadcaster" and spread rumours that fuel was going to run out in the next few weeks. That broadcaster broadcast it and there was a run on fuel. They are now struggling to replenish that fuel.

 

I'll leave you to guess which broadcaster it was but they were telling people to "fill me can".

I wonder if in fact there is a gradual issue, with each refinery/depot having only just enough drivers to keep going, and eventually driver shortage became too much to bear.

 

My last years in the railway industry were traincrew rostering, and for eight years I saw first hand how we relied on the regular overtime drivers to fill the gaps, and occasionally had to individually text drivers asking if they would like to work an extra shift. As I sat next to the traincrew supervisor I could then see how the driver shortage played out in real time, the supervisors would 'step up'  drivers, or ask others to work on to cover the gaps in the service.

 

Now in my current job in retail I see how the 'just in time' system of stock control has reduced the amount of stock held in warehouses over the last 15 years. If tomorrow each of the regular customers in our store bought two packs of toilet rolls instead of one then we would run out before closing time tomorrow, not a panic, but it would strip the shelves in no time. Our store has traded well this year, but has constantly been short of certain items, something I have noticed has got worse in recent months (I am only a mere shelf filler). This is due to delivery problems from our distribution depots, and further afield.

 

Therefore I can easily imagine how the fuel crisis has played out. If many filling stations have their delivery day pushed back over the last few weeks, by 12 hours or a day due to driver shortage, then many of them will be constantly nearer to running dry than they would like to be. At some point a few filling stations will eventually run short, and close. This information will rapidly get out, by social media, or elsewhere. The national shortage of HGV drivers means that it is not possible to cover the shortfall without causing problems elsewhere. Once the news gets out and many drivers decide to top up 'just in case' then the situation rapidly becomes hopeless as there is no reserve of drivers to make extra deliveries.

 

On a personal note I have not refilled my car for three weeks. I will need a top up before Sunday when we plan to driver to Devon for a short break,

 

 

cheers  

Edited September 27, 2021 by Rivercider
clarification

[Colin_McLeod]

[Guest]

This must be a winner.

Buy bottled water from garage shop. Empty out water. Fill water bottle with petrol.

 

https://metro.co.uk/2021/09/27/panic-buyer-filmed-filling-up-water-bottles-with-petrol-at-m25-garage-15324320/

[Mallard60022]

20 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

I maintain that the ONLY real problem is the idiots panic buying.  They are the sole reason stations are running out of fuel.

Nope, you may maintain what you like matey. That problem is the main problem but not the ONLY real problem, however the shortage of specialist Drivers is the other far more serious issue. There are many and varied reasons for that, including the Department FT for Licences in Swansea having loads of difficulties as well as there being some Industrial Dispute happening there as well.

Blame lies in several areas for this, but sadly the selfish attitudes prevalent  in many people these days, is showing up badly with this as did panic buting in early 2020.

P

[Metr0Land]

9 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

Anyone here (old enough to) remember the oil crisis in (I think the early 70's) when they actually issued fuel ration books ?

 

 

I remember them being printed, were they actually issued?  I remember my dad having them during the Suez crisis.

[SamThomas]

14 minutes ago, Metr0Land said:

 

I remember them being printed, were they actually issued?  I remember my dad having them during the Suez crisis.

Yes they were - I seem to remember that you had to go to the post office with a current tax disc to get your book.

[phil-b259]

14 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Nope, you may maintain what you like matey. That problem is the main problem but not the ONLY real problem, however the shortage of specialist Drivers is the other far more serious issue. There are many and varied reasons for that, including the Department FT for Licences in Swansea having loads of difficulties as well as there being some Industrial Dispute happening there as well.

Blame lies in several areas for this, but sadly the selfish attitudes prevalent  in many people these days, is showing up badly with this as did panic buting in early 2020.

P

You miss the point.

 

Yes there is a shortage of tanker drivers - but the industry was coping pretty well. Yes the odd few garages here and there ran dry occasionally - but that’s no different to what has been happening with other things like supermarkets not having certain products every so often.

 

These sort of disruptions were not causing any problem!

 

Fuel retailers were no different if the masses had done what the government asked and ‘filled up as usual’ we wouldn’t be in this mess.

 

Therefore to try and claim that the schemes we have witnessed over the past few days is the result of tanker driver shortages is nonsense - the blame lies 100% with the thick British public who through the selfish actions of a large number of people caused the potential fuel shortage to become a reality!

 

 

[Rivercider]

10 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

You miss the point.

 

Yes there is a shortage of tanker drivers - but the industry was coping pretty well. Yes the odd few garages here and there ran dry occasionally - but that’s no different to what has been happening with other things like supermarkets not having certain products every so often.

 

These sort of disruptions were not causing any problem!

 

Fuel retailers were no different if the masses had done what the government asked and ‘filled up as usual’ we wouldn’t be in this mess.

 

Therefore to try and claim that the schemes we have witnessed over the past few days is the result of tanker driver shortages is nonsense - the blame lies 100% with the thick British public who through the selfish actions of a large number of people caused the potential fuel shortage to become a reality!

 

 

Without being privy to inside knowledge (other than noting how the supermarket where I have worked for 14 years as a shelf stacker has coped, and warehouse stocks have been much reduced over that time)  I would suggest that the delivery industry in general was coping 'just about'. 

When working on 'just in time' deliveries this leaves little margin for error. If a handful of filling stations have to close this will cause a knock on effect to neighbouring filling stations, and once news gets out there is a rapidly a general shortage, and there is no reserve of drivers to call up to recover the situation.

 

cheers

 

[Andymsa]

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

Sorry Denbridge, one example is not statistically significant.  If it were there would not have been  problem but there clearly is.

sorry I have to disagree, as you say there have been issues in the past months but have we had issues filling our cars? the main problem was until the media reported this things were stable, but the result was bog roll two panic buying.

[Denbridge]

55 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Nope, you may maintain what you like matey. That problem is the main problem but not the ONLY real problem, however the shortage of specialist Drivers is the other far more serious issue. There are many and varied reasons for that, including the Department FT for Licences in Swansea having loads of difficulties as well as there being some Industrial Dispute happening there as well.

Blame lies in several areas for this, but sadly the selfish attitudes prevalent  in many people these days, is showing up badly with this as did panic buting in early 2020.

P

It doesn't take much to work out that without queues of 100's of vehicles throughout the day all over the country, there would be no crisis. If people needed this much fuel, we would see these queues every day throughout the year. I've just read a report of people filling up, going home and draining their tanks, then going back to refill. The worrying thing is many of these are storing their stockpiled fuel in totally unsuitable vessels, including one moron filling his kids paddling pool with petrol. The fool is proud of his ingenuity. 

[Rivercider]

14 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

It doesn't take much to work out that without queues of 100's of vehicles throughout the day all over the country, there would be no crisis. If people needed this much fuel, we would see these queues every day throughout the year. I've just read a report of people filling up, going home and draining their tanks, then going back to refill. The worrying thing is many of these are storing their stockpiled fuel in totally unsuitable vessels, including one moron filling his kids paddling pool with petrol. The fool is proud of his ingenuity. 

I think the fact that a handful of filling stations ran out of fuel, before it became national news, illustrates the problem, there is an obvious shortage of drivers.

 

I do agree that if WE, as the general public, exercised restraint and simply bought fuel as normal then it would not have become a crisis. However we all now know there is insufficient capacity in the supply and storage chain to accommodate this kind of fluctuation,

 

cheers 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Rivercider
clarification

[Ian Smeeton]

It does seem to be absolute lemming-like lunacy.

 

I drove to the top side of Retford yesterday, about 55 miles from home, to see some friends, and Petrol Stations along the A1 were reasonable busy, but no queues (mind you they are 5-10p dearer than those off the main trunk routes). Retford, itself, I passed three separate petrol stations, no queues, and fuel on sale.

 

Today, shopping in Grantham, Asda was queued out for  several hundred yards, Sainsbury's seemed to be ok, but the Esso Garage on London Rd had no fuel

 

I filled up last Monday, the extra trip to Retford has reduced my reserves, but I am lucky enough to only have to drive to work tomorrow, I can cycle for the rest of the week, so my fuel will last for about 10 days.

 

Was I tempted to top up when still showing more than half a tank..... well, yes.

 

But I  decided discretion was the better part of valour, and I would leave some in the pumps for someone who really needs it..... perhaps.

 

It seems mad that people are prepared to spend a considerable time queuing for the petrol station , wasting fuel while they wait, when they could be doing something far more useful.

 

Hopefully, with everyone back at work  things will ease.

 

I am not holding my breath.

 

Regards

 

Ian

Edited September 27, 2021 by Ian Smeeton
Sp

[figworthy]

Weekly shop day is Monday.  I passed two filling stations, the first had tape around the pumps, so I'm assuming that they had run out.  The second looked slightly busier than usual, but no queues.  As I had 2/3 of a tank full, I didn't bother filling up.  If I recall correctly, the station that was closed, is closed periodically anyway, so arguably, things were no different to usual.

 

In the supermarket, two items on my list were out of stock (which has happened a couple of times in recent months).  One of them was OOS a couple of weeks back, but last week the shelves were full.  I'm guessing supply chain problems in both cases.

 

Adrian

[Andy Hayter]

1 hour ago, Andymsa said:

sorry I have to disagree, as you say there have been issues in the past months but have we had issues filling our cars? the main problem was until the media reported this things were stable, but the result was bog roll two panic buying.

 

I think you and @Denbridge have missed my point - which means I have not explained it clearly enough.

There is no doubt that where we are now has been triggered by media reporting.  One of my earlier posts said as much.

 

The point I have been trying to get across is that this situation was going to happen at some stage in the near future.

There is a shortage of HGV drivers.

Refineries have not been able to get the volumes out to the forecourts in the volumes to have normal stock holding there. 

All the evidence is that the shortfall at the filling station has gradually been getting worse. 

 

So at some point there would be a trigger that would cause panic buying.  It happens to be now.  It could have been next month or later than that.   The one thing you can be certain of is that once a potential shortage becomes evident to the populace it does become every (wo)man for themselves.  

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

39 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

…..All the evidence is that the shortfall at the filling station has gradually been getting worse. 

 

Gradually getting worst?

By how much?

BP reported about 5 of their 1,200 plus filling stations were closed at any one time.

About 0.5% of their sites.

There are over 8,000 filling station sites in the UK  and no other companies were reporting closures, despite the concern about the driver shortage.

 

.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Ron Ron Ron

[chris p bacon]

My Daughter in Law told me of a girl in the office who went out late on Friday night to fill up as she heard there was a shortage (Facebook). When she got to the garage they were out of diesel so she put £30 of unleaded in. 

The following day when the car expired she was asked why put petrol in it, her reply "I thought something was better than nothing".... A £30 panic has just cost her an engine.....and yes she's blonde... 

[Andy Hayter]

2 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Gradually getting worst?

By how much?

BP reported about 5 of their 1,200 plus filling stations were closed at any one time.

About 0.5% of their sites.

There are over 8,000 filling station sites in the UK  and no other companies were reporting closures, despite the concern about the driver shortage.

 

.

 

That is the metric that the public/media have reacted to.

 

The key metric is the admission by BP themselves that forecourt stocks were down 33% on the normal level.  That other companies have stocked out so quickly strongly suggests that they too had lower than normal stocks.  Maybe not so much lower but lower nevertheless.

 

To a point you can manage running with low stocks* though setting priorities can be difficult for those responsible for doing so.  Deliveries that might have been made next day are made with a two day delay.  You declare that to the customer at the time of the order and provided you stick to that delivery date, they will not react to that.  Indeed it may not even register with them that delivery is starting to take a little longer than usual.  They order, they get a delivery date, you deliver to that date and everyone is happy.  Except that their stock is now down one days worth.  Do it again in 3 weeks time and now they are 2 days down on normal stock.  And that's how it goes until stations start to stock out because that reduction in their stock means they cannot last to the next delivery.  

 

* Been there and done that, T shirts, videos etc.  

 

Stockouts can and probably do happen from time to time anyway.  Someone forgets to order until it's too late.  A delivery truck has a problem and cannot make the delivery.   But when it is coupled with statements about reduced forecourt stocks in general then you know there is a problem.  5 stations this week.  15 next. 35 the week after.  At some stage this would have become obvious to all and sundry and then the panic buying mode would have switched on.  

[monkeysarefun]

8 hours ago, Ben B said:

It's caught me by surprise. I'm stuck isolating at home for my mandatory ten days after catching Covid... How is someone meant to prepare for a "Mad Max" esque scenario, roaming and scavenging for fuel and food, whilst obeying NHS isolation rules? Honestly, I thought I'd have another year or so to acquire a beat-up leather jacket and an impractical V8-engined police car before society imploded...

You had me til the bit about  "impractical V8"    - thats not a thing!

Edited September 27, 2021 by monkeysarefun

[Michael Hodgson]

3 hours ago, Metr0Land said:

 

I remember them being printed, were they actually issued?  I remember my dad having them during the Suez crisis.

They were indeed issued but not actually used, and I still have mine.  My father was Regional Petroleum Officer for the South West, based in a temporary office overlooking the Clifton Suspension Bridge. 

 

Contingency plans were dusted off and the same ration books as previously produced for the 1956 Suez Crisis were issued on the same basis.  To get them you took your (cardboard) car log book to the Post Office who stamped the log book to show they had been issued and gave you a book of coupons.  Fortunately the supply situation stabilised before they were needed.  Had it been necessary to start rationing you would have handed over your money as usual together with 1 coupon for x gallons, where x was whatever quantity of petrol HMG deemed appropriate that week.  That would apply to any currently registered vehicle you had - so if you could afford two or more cars you would have got a bigger ration (not an issue during WW2 as cars not being used for war work were liable to be requisitioned).  If you could demonstrate that needed more than the ration because of the essential nature of your work, you would have been able to apply in writing to the Ministry who would have had to devise some sort of basis for dealing with these claims. 

 

For Suez, being a Doctor or a Minister of Religion qualified you for more.  Most people at that time could walk or cycle to work, failing which they would at least have the option of public transport to get to work.  This WW2 approach to petrol rationing was still just about workable in the mid 1950s, but by the 1970s the way society and the economy had changed meant that basis was quite inadequate.  Had that system been implemented to cope with the oil crisis it could be no more than a very brief emergency stop-gap until Government could devise a much more complex formula to get "key workers" to where they were needed  - it would have been every bit as chaotic as the start of Covid.  And to cap it all the paper-based coupons would have been open to forgery and black market dealings, so it was obvious even then that a newer technology would have been needed if rationing were to last for any time at all.

 

 

[Andymsa]

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

I think you and @Denbridge have missed my point - which means I have not explained it clearly enough.

There is no doubt that where we are now has been triggered by media reporting.  One of my earlier posts said as much.

 

The point I have been trying to get across is that this situation was going to happen at some stage in the near future.

There is a shortage of HGV drivers.

Refineries have not been able to get the volumes out to the forecourts in the volumes to have normal stock holding there. 

All the evidence is that the shortfall at the filling station has gradually been getting worse. 

 

So at some point there would be a trigger that would cause panic buying.  It happens to be now.  It could have been next month or later than that.   The one thing you can be certain of is that once a potential shortage becomes evident to the populace it does become every (wo)man for themselves.  

 

no I didn’t miss the point on the hgv driver shortage. I do disagree that this would of happened in any case in the near future the delivery systems were coping ok. I would be interested where you obtained the facts that refineries couldn’t get the volumes out to the forecourt, my local garage was getting regular supplies with no issues. Personally I believe this crises is a manufactured one to deflect the real story going on that current deaths non covid are far higher that is usual for this time of year.