More model ideas

[Downer]

With all this talk, on both the Accurascale and Hornby future model threads, about a possible new 8F, I thought I’d take out my c2010 Hornby model and see how bad it is. In the event, I was pleasantly surprised. Yes, it could be improved, but the basic shape is right, and it still runs sweetly enough. It looks like an 8F, and when I finally get around to adding some already-purchased Brassmaster detailing I’m sure it’ll do for me.  I had it sound-equipped by Digitrains a few years ago, and there’s no way I’m going to fork out £300+ for a new sound version. Maybe I’m in a small minority in this regard, but I do wonder how big the market is for this sort of upgrade. 

 

[MoonM]

14 minutes ago, Downer said:

With all this talk, on both the Accurascale and Hornby future model threads, about a possible new 8F, I thought I’d take out my c2010 Hornby model and see how bad it is. In the event, I was pleasantly surprised. Yes, it could be improved, but the basic shape is right, and it still runs sweetly enough. It looks like an 8F, and when I finally get around to adding some already-purchased Brassmaster detailing I’m sure it’ll do for me.  I had it sound-equipped by Digitrains a few years ago, and there’s no way I’m going to fork out £300+ for a new sound version. Maybe I’m in a small minority in this regard, but I do wonder how big the market is for this sort of upgrade. 

 

I wonder if accurascale have any stats on whether building models such as class 50s, 37s, 55s (where there are models out there in the market already) attracts buyers who want to replace older models, buyers who want more models, or new buyers. If option 2 or 3 is typical then the market for an 8f is huge. I for one do not have an 8f. I would like one. I wonder whether I can buy an old Hornby one on ebay but I resist because I want the best there can be and it feels like there is one just around the corner, so I wait. If I already had a Hornby 8f and it was good enough, maybe I wouldn't buy a new one (ironic because I could buy one off ebay today and put myself in that position, but still I want to wait in case of something new). So my behaviour isn't rational but I expect I am not the only one to behave like this. BTW, I'm not buying Hornbys 2023 re release - way too much money for nothing (really) that is new! 

[Dunsignalling]

16 minutes ago, Downer said:

With all this talk, on both the Accurascale and Hornby future model threads, about a possible new 8F, I thought I’d take out my c2010 Hornby model and see how bad it is. In the event, I was pleasantly surprised. Yes, it could be improved, but the basic shape is right, and it still runs sweetly enough. It looks like an 8F, and when I finally get around to adding some already-purchased Brassmaster detailing I’m sure it’ll do for me.  I had it sound-equipped by Digitrains a few years ago, and there’s no way I’m going to fork out £300+ for a new sound version. Maybe I’m in a small minority in this regard, but I do wonder how big the market is for this sort of upgrade. 

 

The Hornby Black Five and 8F are to much the same standard. Hornby consider it worthwhile to retool the former, so I think it's fairly certain that either they or someone else will take on the 8F.

[Downer]

41 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

The Hornby Black Five and 8F are to much the same standard. Hornby consider it worthwhile to retool the former, so I think it's fairly certain that either they or someone else will take on the 8F.

Yes, but given Hornby’s chronic inability to make a decent profit, would you trust their judgement in this regard? I think the Caprotti version of the Black Five will sell because it’s new - I shall probably get one myself - but when it comes to the standard version I’m happy with what I’ve got.

[MoonM]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

The Hornby Black Five and 8F are to much the same standard. Hornby consider it worthwhile to retool the former, so I think it's fairly certain that either they or someone else will take on the 8F.

I would have agreed with you a month ago. But, with Hornby re releasing the old model earlier this month, I think it unlikely that a new tool will appear in the near term

[Dunsignalling]

41 minutes ago, Downer said:

Yes, but given Hornby’s chronic inability to make a decent profit, would you trust their judgement in this regard? I think the Caprotti version of the Black Five will sell because it’s new - I shall probably get one myself - but when it comes to the standard version I’m happy with what I’ve got.

My personal opinion is that product choices have never been the foremost reason behind Hornby's repeated financial difficulties. 

 

I think the the entire group structure is outdated and expensive to run but they dare not allow their prices to get too far out of line with products from competitors with more modern, cost-effective business models. In essence, high unit costs along with an inability to increase unit income to match, have resulted in squeezed margins.

 

My gut feeling is that the malaise may date from when Hornby offshored production to China, but possibly failed to sufficiently reconfigure those parts of the business that remained in the UK.

 

John

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[Dunsignalling]

4 minutes ago, MoonM said:

I would have agreed with you a month ago. But, with Hornby re releasing the old model earlier this month, I think it unlikely that a new tool will appear in the near term

Certainly not from Hornby....

[KDG]

4 hours ago, Revolution Mike B said:

 

Whilst it may seem like a missed opportunity, a yellow MLA to most people looks very similar to a JNA Falcon, and therefore creates the sense of "I've already got some yellow wagons, I don't need any more of them". I'm by no means saying that some modellers wouldn't welcome them with open arms (me in particular), but from a business perspective, it probably isn't the most viable proposition.

Alternatively, there's the Accurascale factor.  Many modellers will buy them because they've been made. Those that know what they are, know, and will want them.  Additionally they're available in red, faded red, weathered faded red, etc.  

[Covkid]

31 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

The Hornby Black Five and 8F are to much the same standard. Hornby consider it worthwhile to retool the former, so I think it's fairly certain that either they or someone else will take on the 8F.

 

Almost certainly.   The point to remember though is this.

 

Manufacturer A produced an xxx in 1996 and added some improvements to it in 2005.  Still appears in the catalogues every few years.

Manufacturer B  announced a new XXX in 2023 

 

The marketplace is opened up and punters can buy either. What I am saying is the product from Manufacturer A would probably need another revamp or retool anyway. 

[Dunsignalling]

1 minute ago, Covkid said:

 

Almost certainly.   The point to remember though is this.

 

Manufacturer A produced an xxx in 1996 and added some improvements to it in 2005.  Still appears in the catalogues every few years.

Manufacturer B  announced a new XXX in 2023 

 

The marketplace is opened up and punters can buy either. What I am saying is the product from Manufacturer A would probably need another revamp or retool anyway. 

But, in order to avoid the ire of recent purchasers, Hornby generally rest models for at least a year prior to launching an upgraded version.

 

With almost all of Hornby's truly new stuff having been shoved (at best) to the back end of 2024, I'd not expect a retooled Hornby 8F any sooner than a year later.

 

If any competitor already has an 8F under development for announcement soon and release later this year/early next (which I consider probable), Hornby will be playing catch-up from a long way behind.

 

John

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Covkid said:

... Manufacturer A produced an xxx in 1996 and added some improvements to it in 2005.  Still appears in the catalogues every few years.

Manufacturer B  announced a new XXX in 2023 ...

Thus denying everyone who doesn't need ( another ) XXX the opportunity to have a never-before-produced ZZZ which they could have announced instead ! .............................................. swings an' roundabouts .............. probably helter-skelters too ......

[Standards_in_OO]

If the existing 8F wasn’t in the Hornby range this year I would have thought that it is something they are working on re doing. As mentioned earlier before a new tooled release the previous version often isn’t in the catalogue for a year or so before. I’ve seen a few comments about a rebuilt MN but I imagine Hornby are working on that as well. Going back to Accurascale I would like to see an S160 2-8-0 and a WD 2-10-0 as these haven’t been available in RTR before in OO. 

[Delta_Who]

Going back to the Manors, other than the Siphon G, Accurascale themselves don't really have much GWR rolling stock, and they usually prefer to have pairings with their locos.

[MJI]

47 minutes ago, Delta_Who said:

Going back to the Manors, other than the Siphon G, Accurascale themselves don't really have much GWR rolling stock, and they usually prefer to have pairings with their locos.

 

This is when we have to use Comet.

 

Big gaps are mid 30s flat end stock, Sunshine are rather old and Bachmann have messed up a mould, also there is the 70ft stock. And of course pre grouping stuff.

[No Decorum]

14 hours ago, MoonM said:

I would have agreed with you a month ago. But, with Hornby re releasing the old model earlier this month, I think it unlikely that a new tool will appear in the near term

Near term perhaps. It could be that Hornby is trying to get some sorely needed money out of the current tool before producing a new tool. Producing the 8F adds a bit of variety to the line up in a catch up year.

[No Decorum]

12 hours ago, Standards_in_OO said:

If the existing 8F wasn’t in the Hornby range this year I would have thought that it is something they are working on re doing. As mentioned earlier before a new tooled release the previous version often isn’t in the catalogue for a year or so before. I’ve seen a few comments about a rebuilt MN but I imagine Hornby are working on that as well. Going back to Accurascale I would like to see an S160 2-8-0 and a WD 2-10-0 as these haven’t been available in RTR before in OO. 

Big, impressive stuff. Those two would be a good choice. A K4 would charm the birds off the trees and the money out of a Scotsman’s wallet. All lovely but Gresley K1s and K2s would tempt me as well, even if they are unlikely. Whilst I’m generally against duplication, Hornby’s large-wheeled Saint is so bad that I’d say a Saint is an obvious gap to fill.

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Delta_Who said:

... Accurascale themselves don't really have much GWR rolling stock, and they usually prefer to have pairings with their locos.

Felix Pole wagons would be an obvious pairing for a GWR loco AND could be adapted from the MDO design work to add to the Powering the Nation theme.

[frobisher]

15 hours ago, Standards_in_OO said:

If the existing 8F wasn’t in the Hornby range this year I would have thought that it is something they are working on re doing.

 

A bit of counter evidence was Hornby had a full run of the Limby 67 they year before announcing the in house tooling which wrong fitted a lot of peeps.

[Dunsignalling]

27 minutes ago, frobisher said:

 

A bit of counter evidence was Hornby had a full run of the Limby 67 they year before announcing the in house tooling which wrong fitted a lot of peeps.

 

And didn't go down at all well with some I knew back then who had bought the first one....

 

[MoonM]

1 hour ago, frobisher said:

 

A bit of counter evidence was Hornby had a full run of the Limby 67 they year before announcing the in house tooling which wrong fitted a lot of peeps.

Surely that's just mismanagement rather than deliberate? I cannot see any commercial sense in such a tactic - surely that will dent sales of the new model just at the point in time a manufacturer would try and maximise clawback of us much tooling expense as possible?

[frobisher]

1 hour ago, MoonM said:

Surely that's just mismanagement rather than deliberate? I cannot see any commercial sense in such a tactic - surely that will dent sales of the new model just at the point in time a manufacturer would try and maximise clawback of us much tooling expense as possible?

 

No idea, it's just what they did.  At the time nobody expected a re-tool because they'd only relatively recently warmed up and improved (a bit) the Lima tooling.  Hornby seem to have done well enough out of the newer tooling though so who knows.

[KDG]

I'd be pleased if Accurascale announce a CS/GBRf Class 73/9 at Modelrail Scotland in February.....

[tinsley-toton]

Liking the latest update to the website 😬

Obviously only joking but wishful thinking too.

T-T

[McC]

some masterful photoshop skills there lol. 

[reddragon]

1 hour ago, tinsley-toton said:

Liking the latest update to the website 😬

Obviously only joking but wishful thinking too.

T-T

No a steam loco as class 40 would be between the 37 and 50

 

LNER A4, imagine that a decent one!

Edited February 4, 2023 by reddragon