The Night Mail

[Northmoor]

3 hours ago, polybear said:

 

Bear was interested to see where the Harriers ended up when they were sold off given away for peanuts  - many went here:

 

https://www.airplaneboneyards.com/davis-monthan-afb-amarg-airplane-boneyard.htm

 

I wonder just how much tax-payers money is sitting in that place?

If you're an American taxpayer, an eye-watering amount.  There have been fleets of military aircraft built which were sent to DMAFB before entering service.  I know military requirements evolve - I used to help write them - but the US allows the large defence manufacturers to lobby for what is "needed" in a way that makes BAES's efforts in Britain look like amateur dramatics.  There is the story of the C-130: the USAF originally asked for six, at the last count they had received over 150 of them.

[Happy Hippo]

12 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

I will indeed do so.

 

The purpose of the dimple on the full size I believe is so that you have a some where to put a hand held analogue rpm gauge. 

More likely to put a live centre so that when you turn the axle on the lathe (a slightly bigger one than yours) any run out that occurs with long unsupported work is avoided or at least kept to a minimum.

[Compound2632]

34 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

If you're an American taxpayer, an eye-watering amount.  There have been fleets of military aircraft built which were sent to DMAFB before entering service.  I know military requirements evolve - I used to help write them - but the US allows the large defence manufacturers to lobby for what is "needed" in a way that makes BAES's efforts in Britain look like amateur dramatics.  There is the story of the C-130: the USAF originally asked for six, at the last count they had received over 150 of them.

 

But at least the manufacturing capability and capacity will be there when it's really needed...

Edited January 3, 2022 by Compound2632

[Happy Hippo]

12 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

But at least the manufacturing capability and capacity will be there when it's really needed...

Sounds a bit like the UK's strategic reserve of steam engines, still all hidden under a mountain somewhere awaiting the call!

 

Of course it's a bit simpler than that, it's sitting in plain sight under the guise of heritage railways.

 

As long as they remember that, for example VoR No 9 cannot pull up Shap without a great deal of modification...

 

Douglas, fire up the Toyo!

Edited January 3, 2022 by Happy Hippo
What's stategicl?

[PupCam]

20 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

As long as they remember that, for example VoR No 9 cannot pull up Shap without a great deal of modification...

 

Wouldn't stop some bean Locomotive counter suggesting it ......  

 

"It's a locomotive, you said you needed a locomotive, I have provided you with a locomotive.   My work here is done"

 

Doh!

[Oldddudders]

With the regular discussions on rugby and military matters, I feel this story has a place here.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59838958

 

[polybear]

13 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

I will indeed do so.

 

The purpose of the dimple on the full size I believe is so that you have a some where to put a hand held analogue rpm gauge. 

 

Now this Bear wouldn't be offering to hold it, bearing in mind what the coupling rods would do to one's paws on every revolution.....

[Florence Locomotive Works]

1 hour ago, polybear said:

 

Now this Bear wouldn't be offering to hold it, bearing in mind what the coupling rods would do to one's paws on every revolution.....

I think I should have mentioned that it’s only used for that on full size single cylinder stationary engines. 
 

On a loco a live center is much more likely. 
 

 

On a loco set up on a test stand at either Rugby, Swindon or Vitri in France, I’m guessing the engine would be fitted with a return crank like assembly that would would be perfectly aligned with center rather than the typical offset. It would be outside the rods so no danger would be incurred. In theory.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Florence Locomotive Works

[simontaylor484]

3 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

With the regular discussions on rugby and military matters, I feel this story has a place here.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59838958

 

A very interesting read 

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Gentlemen, I am thinking of building a ship.

 

A model one of course. 

 

As the "Brunel" project is coming to close (bar the tender which is errrrr) I have recently had fleeting thoughts (pun intended) about constructing a live steam ship. 

 

I have all the required materials for the power plant, including a purpose built marine engine and a working boiler, (steam tested by me) but I am unsure what type of ship to construct.

 

Option 1: is something like this, a 1870s screw steamer, about 36 inches long. The hull would be wooden and carved from solid.

 

https://2covet.com/product/class-1-model-of-a-single-screw-steamboat-by-stevens-model-dockyard-of-aldgate-lzvs1

 

Option 2: is to build a paddle steamer that would look very much like RMS Persia or Scotia, which would have the engine mounted perpendicular to the keel and be geared to the paddle shaft. I think this would be about 40 inches long with a hull carved in the same method.

 

 

https://oceanlinersmagazine.com/2021/01/25/persia/

 

 

 

I am at the moment leaning towards the Persia design.

 

 

Now I am not completely inexperienced with building ships from wood like I am with scratchbuilding locomotives, having made about 3 dozen ships from scratch over the past 5 years. The biggest I've made though is 14 inch 1900s steamer and it wasn't powered, so this would be a big step up. I think I could do it though.

 

 

What are our thoughts?

Edited January 3, 2022 by Florence Locomotive Works

[J. S. Bach]

6 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

With the regular discussions on rugby and military matters, I feel this story has a place here.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59838958

 

I am sure that is more common than one might think.

[Northmoor]

6 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

With the regular discussions on rugby and military matters, I feel this story has a place here.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59838958

 

Although the friendship was founded while the conflict was still happening, there have been many examples of Falklands veterans from the two sides meeting and forming friendships.  Simon Weston (one of the world's bravest people IMO) is one obvious example; he met the Skyhawk pilot whose bomb hit the Sir Galahad and was very insistent that he should not feel any guilt at all for the injuries; I think his words were something along the lines of, "You weren't aiming at me, were doing your job.  If our guys had done our job right, we wouldn't have been on the ship by then or you would have been shot down, but then I probably couldn't shake your hand now".

 

There have also been Royal Marines who have met Argentine veterans and taken them to the graves at Goose Green etc., where their comrades are buried.  There was also a Harrier pilot who shot up a Pucara attempting to take off from one of the temporary airfields during the air raid; he contacted the Argentine Air Force after the conflict to commend the pilot on his bravery.  

 

There is an impressive chivalry amongst men in the midst of hellish situations.  My grandfather was injured and captured in Tunisia in 1943, but his description of the Germans who he met in their field hospital was overwhelmingly positive; professional, courteous and often quite friendly.

[simontaylor484]

2 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

Gentlemen, I am thinking of building a ship.

 

A model one of course. 

 

As the "Brunel" project is coming to close (bar the tender which is errrrr) I have recently had fleeting thoughts (pun intended) about constructing a live steam ship. 

 

I have all the required materials for the power plant, including a purpose built marine engine and a working boiler, (steam tested by me) but I am unsure what type of ship to construct.

 

Option 1: is something like this, a 1870s screw steamer, about 36 inches long. The hull would be wooden and carved from solid.

 

https://2covet.com/product/class-1-model-of-a-single-screw-steamboat-by-stevens-model-dockyard-of-aldgate-lzvs1

 

Option 2: is to build a paddle steamer that would look very much like RMS Persia or Scotia, which would have the engine mounted perpendicular to the keel and be geared to the paddle shaft. I think this would be about 40 inches long with a hull carved in the same method.

 

 

https://oceanlinersmagazine.com/2021/01/25/persia/

 

 

 

I am at the moment leaning towards the Persia design.

 

 

Now I am not completely inexperienced with building ships from wood like I am with scratchbuilding locomotives, having made about 3 dozen ships from scratch over the past 5 years. The biggest I've made though is 14 inch 1900s steamer and it wasn't powered, so this would be a big step up. I think I could do it though.

 

 

What are our thoughts?

Give it a go Douglas if you feel up to it. I spent years doubting my own abilities to do things. I still regret not doing certain things academically but if i had i may not have Swmbo and my 2 lovely boys.

 

Don't forget to have a go at the tender for Brunel. 

Which brings me onto another point how about having a go at one of the Great mans ships such as Great Western 

[Florence Locomotive Works]

37 minutes ago, simontaylor484 said:

Which brings me onto another point how about having a go at one of the Great mans ships such as Great Western 

I thought about all of them, but the I don't particularly like the look of the Great Western or Great Britain. And the Great Eastern killed him, so I'm a but nervous to tackle so large a project focusing on such a notoriously large project. I do quite like that one though.

[PhilJ W]

What about a Mississippi stern wheeler?

[Florence Locomotive Works]

8 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

What about a Mississippi stern wheeler?

That would require the acquisition of a new engine.

 

The main problem with a model stern wheeler is that with the high speeds the engine runs at. The reciprocating motion of cranks working on the paddle would have very severe effects on the stability of the boat.

 

Most people who build model stern wheelers either make them huge or build custom engines with long, gentle piston strokes and valve events like on the real thing. On a real stern wheelers the engine is almost the full length of the hull, taking up about 3/4 of its length along the very edges, enabling a very very long stroke. I've seen a preserved one that was exhumed from a wreck in Kansas city and the stroke is probably 4 foot.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Florence Locomotive Works

[AndyID]

8 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

What about a Mississippi stern wheeler?

 

or this (a personal favorite)

[Winslow Boy]

I have actual been on a paddle steamer when we went to Largs, I think I can't be sure as it was quite few years ago. I recall being shown the engine room which was behind perspex but it was still very noisy. 

[Northmoor]

1 minute ago, Winslow Boy said:

I have actual been on a paddle steamer when we went to Largs, I think I can't be sure as it was quite few years ago. I recall being shown the engine room which was behind perspex but it was still very noisy. 

Probably the Waverley, still in service (probably not in the last two years though).  You used to stand behind a railing, no Perspex involved, so perhaps someone fell through?  It's at least 25 years since I last travelled on it but I highly recommend a day trip on it for anyone who appreciates steam traction and ships.

[PhilJ W]

I can remember the old Woolwich ferry paddle steamers. In the pedestrian area there were windows where you could watch the engines. 

[AndyID]

59 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Probably the Waverley, still in service (probably not in the last two years though).  You used to stand behind a railing, no Perspex involved, so perhaps someone fell through?  It's at least 25 years since I last travelled on it but I highly recommend a day trip on it for anyone who appreciates steam traction and ships.

 

I sailed on Waverly and Talisman many times. Talisman was interesting because you could see the propulsion motor. It was enormous with direct drive to the paddles. I remember being impressed by the huge number of commutator segments.

 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by AndyID
Correction

[Happy Hippo]

3 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

That would require the acquisition of a new engine.

 

The main problem with a model stern wheeler is that with the high speeds the engine runs at. The reciprocating motion of cranks working on the paddle would have very severe effects on the stability of the boat.

 

Most people who build model stern wheelers either make them huge or build custom engines with long, gentle piston strokes and valve events like on the real thing. On a real stern wheelers the engine is almost the full length of the hull, taking up about 3/4 of its length along the very edges, enabling a very very long stroke. I've seen a preserved one that was exhumed from a wreck in Kansas city and the stroke is probably 4 foot.

You could always gear it down so that the steam motor is running at a far higher speed than the paddle wheels.

 

Then it wouldn't thrash itself to death.

 

Another advantage of this method is the steam motor can be lifted out quite easily as the only connection between the motor and the paddle wheel is the intermeshed gears connection.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Happy Hippo

[pH]

1 hour ago, AndyID said:

 

or this (a personal favorite)

Now, that would be novel. Instead of powering a model of a steam-powered prototype with an electric motor, Douglas would be using a steam engine to power a model of a prototype which had electric drive.

Edited January 4, 2022 by pH

[jamie92208]

Nice discussion about Clyde steamers. One of my uncles was a photographer  on Arran in the 20's and took a lot of photos of Clyde steamers. I did post a few on the Ships thread a few years ago.

 

Jamie

[rodent279]

On 03/01/2022 at 23:47, Northmoor said:

Probably the Waverley, still in service (probably not in the last two years though).  You used to stand behind a railing, no Perspex involved, so perhaps someone fell through?  It's at least 25 years since I last travelled on it but I highly recommend a day trip on it for anyone who appreciates steam traction and ships.

Still in service as of August 2021, seen here approaching the jetty at Brodick, Arran.

I went on her for a cruise along the Thames, back in May 1979. I was fascinated watching the engine working.

 

Edited September 3, 2022 by rodent279